Bal K Justin Tucker 4yr $20mil

[KD in CA]

Absolutely ridiculous waste of money.

 

Sincerely,

 

Chicago Bears

Minnesota Vikings

Buffalo Bills

Kansas City Chiefs

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The other report is $23.2M........which would be $5.8M........but either way it's too much.

 

Just get rid of the kickers and punters and frickin' "long snappers"..........goofy specialist positions.........add more actual scrimmage players and make all 53 active and with that depth you can easily go to 18 regular season games.    

 

There are literally 6-7 grunters and punters now on every team whose primary purpose is to play teams........which are dangerous and don't sell jerseys.

 

Start possession at the 25 after a score or at start of halves.................instead of punting just flip the field 30 yards if you don't want to go for it..........no more field goals or extra points...........only ones that will miss the kicking aspect are the book makers.

 

 

So, less than a minute to go, down by 1 or 2, no time outs, you drive down the field (from your 25) to your opponents 30 and clock it with 1 second left......and you think the game would be better to end with a Hail Mary attempt than a decent FG for the win?

 

Nah...

 

And 5-6 million a year for the guy who is the number 2 point scorer...in the league??  9 of the top 10 point scorers are Kickers.  For their output, these guys are grossly underpaid.  They are, quite simply, the greatest bargain in professional sports.

 

 

Also, with legalized gambling, no one is going to want to bet on football with only touchdowns.

7 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I wasn’t really comparing the two but it was just funny that he was laughing at Jackson. 

 

But to answer, before the draft, I had them tied.  I liked both of their physical skills but I worried about their passing ability for different reasons.  I lean towards Allen because he has the strong arm.  But at this point, they are closer than most Bills fans think.  

 

I think they are nothing alike.  I have never seen a worse QB performance for 3 Q in that Ravens playoff game.  Allen never looked that bad---utterly, totally lost.   Not even close.

[The Now Moment]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The other report is $23.2M........which would be $5.8M........but either way it's too much.

 

Just get rid of the kickers and punters and frickin' "long snappers"..........goofy specialist positions.........add more actual scrimmage players and make all 53 active and with that depth you can easily go to 18 regular season games.    

 

There are literally 6-7 grunters and punters now on every team whose primary purpose is to play teams........which are dangerous and don't sell jerseys.

 

Start possession at the 25 after a score or at start of halves.................instead of punting just flip the field 30 yards if you don't want to go for it..........no more field goals or extra points...........only ones that will miss the kicking aspect are the book makers.

No thank you, kicking/punting adds complexity and more strategy to the game.  I'm not interested in watching teams go 4 and out on their own 25 and watch the other team slap 100 points on the other team because they get to start on their 25 every other possession.  

[teef]

17 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I wasn’t really comparing the two but it was just funny that he was laughing at Jackson. 

 

But to answer, before the draft, I had them tied.  I liked both of their physical skills but I worried about their passing ability for different reasons.  I lean towards Allen because he has the strong arm.  But at this point, they are closer than most Bills fans think.  

no they're not.  at all.

[C.Biscuit97]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So, less than a minute to go, down by 1 or 2, no time outs, you drive down the field (from your 25) to your opponents 30 and clock it with 1 second left......and you think the game would be better to end with a Hail Mary attempt than a decent FG for the win?

 

Nah...

 

And 5-6 million a year for the guy who is the number 2 point scorer...in the league??  9 of the top 10 point scorers are Kickers.  For their output, these guys are grossly underpaid.  They are, quite simply, the greatest bargain in professional sports.

 

 

Also, with legalized gambling, no one is going to want to bet on football with only touchdowns.

 

I think they are nothing alike.  I have never seen a worse QB performance for 3 Q in that Ravens playoff game.  Allen never looked that bad---utterly, totally lost.   Not even close.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201810070buf.htm

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

They averaged more points in Jackson starts than we did in Allen starts, 24 to 17.5. Glass houses.  

 

And Tucker is awesome.  Always try to draft him in fantasy. 

 

Was going to say this. He’s a stud 

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201810070buf.htm

 

Took you all night to find that?  Allen's 4th start vs Jackson in week 18 and his 8th start.

 

In 3 Quarters:  7 sacks, 2 fumbles, 3 completed passes.

 

Given how the Chargers and Rivers STIIL tried to choke that game away, I bet if the Ravens had week 18 Josh Allen, they would have won that game. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

No thank you, kicking/punting adds complexity and more strategy to the game.  I'm not interested in watching teams go 4 and out on their own 25 and watch the other team slap 100 points on the other team because they get to start on their 25 every other possession.  

 

 

My advice is don't live much longer then because kicking is on it's way out.

[The Now Moment]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

My advice is don't live much longer then because kicking is on it's way out.

As if I live only to watch football haha 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

So, less than a minute to go, down by 1 or 2, no time outs, you drive down the field (from your 25) to your opponents 30 and clock it with 1 second left......and you think the game would be better to end with a Hail Mary attempt than a decent FG for the win?

 

Nah...

 

And 5-6 million a year for the guy who is the number 2 point scorer...in the league??  9 of the top 10 point scorers are Kickers.  For their output, these guys are grossly underpaid.  They are, quite simply, the greatest bargain in professional sports.

 

 

Also, with legalized gambling, no one is going to want to bet on football with only touchdowns.

 

 

 

1)  Fans don't ooh and ahh over kicks.   It's either adequate or the guy is a bum there is no in between.   We've just grown accustomed to the kicking game usage,  we can grow out of it.   Quickly.

 

2)  If you need the "odd" point to keep the score random for gamblers then make the conversion worth 1 from the 1 yard line and 2 points from the 5.

 

 The value of gained distance in a war game is a lot more relatable than a "kick" and thanks to basketball it's part of culture now.    People thought the 3 point shot was an abomination.    They were wrong.    It's still scoring the basketball.

 

Scoring should be done the same way in a sport.  In basketball, hockey and soccer it's getting the ball in the goal........in baseball it's touching all the bases..... in football it should just be getting into the endzone.

 

Without that uniformity you have skewed perspective like someone thinking a kicker who never gets touched and no fan comes to see is worth anything close to (or in your opinion MORE) than a RB who darts thru traffic and breaks tackles and dives for a goal line to score points.    It's rather absurd in the context of our other sports.  

 

Like I said........more regular O and D players..........more depth........more games can be played.........more player based usage and sub strategy......more money for players, teams and gamblers.    

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Took you all night to find that?  Allen's 4th start vs Jackson in week 18 and his 8th start.

 

In 3 Quarters:  7 sacks, 2 fumbles, 3 completed passes.

 

Given how the Chargers and Rivers STIIL tried to choke that game away, I bet if the Ravens had week 18 Josh Allen, they would have won that game. 

Not really.  Sorry; I have a life.  And I wasn’t the one who started all this.  I just think it’s dumb to laugh at a qb who started his first playoff game when own own guy is far from a sure thing.  But I guess when you’re a Bills fan, having a 52% passer allows you to laugh at other guys. 

[teef]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Not really.  Sorry; I have a life.  And I wasn’t the one who started all this.  I just think it’s dumb to laugh at a qb who started his first playoff game when own own guy is far from a sure thing.  But I guess when you’re a Bills fan, having a 52% passer allows you to laugh at other guys. 

if you can't look beyond those numbers, that for you.

 

you seem to be far too over sensitive.  the moment someone makes a comment about a player on another team, you become extremely defensive, and end up throwing one of our own guys under the bus.  on top of that, the arguments you post to back up points are just terrible.  you bring this on yourself.

[C.Biscuit97]

48 minutes ago, teef said:

if you can't look beyond those numbers, that for you.

 

you seem to be far too over sensitive.  the moment someone makes a comment about a player on another team, you become extremely defensive, and end up throwing one of our own guys under the bus.  on top of that, the arguments you post to back up points are just terrible.  you bring this on yourself.

This is hilarious.  I’m the sensitive one??? ?. You guys cry anyone doesn’t say how awesome Allen is.  You guys twist stats to act like a guy who has struggled with accuracy his whole career isn’t really inaccurate.  I point out a “comeback” victory against the Titans where he had 80 yards passing and say things like you need to look beyond the numbers!  

 

But yup, laughing at a qb who started a playoff game is pretty stupid right now.  Hopefully Allen will be better than Jackson but he is closer to Lamar than Brady right now.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Not really.  Sorry; I have a life.  And I wasn’t the one who started all this.  I just think it’s dumb to laugh at a qb who started his first playoff game when own own guy is far from a sure thing.  But I guess when you’re a Bills fan, having a 52% passer allows you to laugh at other guys. 

 

Not really.  Just that guy.

[teef]

10 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

This is hilarious.  I’m the sensitive one??? ?. You guys cry anyone doesn’t say how awesome Allen is.  You guys twist stats to act like a guy who has struggled with accuracy his whole career isn’t really inaccurate.  I point out a “comeback” victory against the Titans where he had 80 yards passing and say things like you need to look beyond the numbers!  

 

But yup, laughing at a qb who started a playoff game is pretty stupid right now.  Hopefully Allen will be better than Jackson but he is closer to Lamar than Brady right now.  

yes.  sensitive.  this post shows it.  you're on a bills message board, and someone gives their opinion about another qb on another team, and you can't handle it.  why that would bother you, i have no idea.  it certainly does though.  to the point where you attack players on the team that you're a fan of.    also, you keep pushing that jackson started a playoff game.  so what?  so did tyrod.  i like tyrod, but most of us realize the limitations of a qb like that.  does jackson being on a playoff team make him a better qb than allen, because that seems to be what you're implying.  

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1)  Fans don't ooh and ahh over kicks.   It's either adequate or the guy is a bum there is no in between.   We've just grown accustomed to the kicking game usage,  we can grow out of it.   Quickly.

 

2)  If you need the "odd" point to keep the score random for gamblers then make the conversion worth 1 from the 1 yard line and 2 points from the 5.

 

 The value of gained distance in a war game is a lot more relatable than a "kick" and thanks to basketball it's part of culture now.    People thought the 3 point shot was an abomination.    They were wrong.    It's still scoring the basketball.

 

Scoring should be done the same way in a sport.  In basketball, hockey and soccer it's getting the ball in the goal........in baseball it's touching all the bases..... in football it should just be getting into the endzone.

 

Without that uniformity you have skewed perspective like someone thinking a kicker who never gets touched and no fan comes to see is worth anything close to (or in your opinion MORE) than a RB who darts thru traffic and breaks tackles and dives for a goal line to score points.    It's rather absurd in the context of our other sports.  

 

Like I said........more regular O and D players..........more depth........more games can be played.........more player based usage and sub strategy......more money for players, teams and gamblers.    

 

 

Football fans still get all of that....but they want their team to have the ability to drive for a game winning FG instead of a nearly hopeless series of passes to drive the length of the field.  Fans are less excited about watching a RB getting 3 times that much money  get stopped behind the line of scrimmage 25% of his carries...

 

MLB, NHL, NBA...all have a single way to score.  And yet they all stand in the long shadow of the most popular pro league in history.  And saving the relative pennies it costs for a long snapper/punter/kicker isn't going to stock roster with many "more regular O and D players".

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Football fans still get all of that....but they want their team to have the ability to drive for a game winning FG instead of a nearly hopeless series of passes to drive the length of the field.  Fans are less excited about watching a RB getting 3 times that much money  get stopped behind the line of scrimmage 25% of his carries...

 

MLB, NHL, NBA...all have a single way to score.  And yet they all stand in the long shadow of the most popular pro league in history.  And saving the relative pennies it costs for a long snapper/punter/kicker isn't going to stock roster with many "more regular O and D players".

 

 

And that's because of the kicking game?    It's not the violence and high leverage nature of each contest?   Interesting.

 

It's not just K/P/LS.........each NFL team has about 7-10 players that are really only in the league because of special teams.   Add those to the "inactives" and you have an extra 12-15 players to play offense and defense.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And that's because of the kicking game?    It's not the violence and high leverage nature of each contest?   Interesting.

 

It's not just K/P/LS.........each NFL team has about 7-10 players that are really only in the league because of special teams.   Add those to the "inactives" and you have an extra 12-15 players to play offense and defense.

 

It's not "because of the kicking game".  It's because the scoring from kicking is part of the game.

 

Having a few more inexpensive scrubs (they aren't going to be high quality players obviously) isn't going to enhance the fan's enjoyment of the product or make 18 games any more likely. Make the roster 100, like in college.  The vast majority of extra players would never get a snap.  There are already enough extra guys to sub in during a blowout--which, in the NFL, teams rarely do anyway.  Starters stay in for blowouts.

 

You're proposing solutions to problems few fans have identified as bothersome.

[Freddie's Dead]

Hausch money gonna get paid....

[mannc]

5 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Hausch money gonna get paid....

He's probably the number 1 reason the Bills made the playoffs in 2017.  Kicker is the most underrated position in football.  The difference between a guy like Tucker and your average NFL kicker is probably a point or two a game over the course of a full season, which is an absolutely huge advantage. 

 

And it never ceases to amaze me how top college programs try to get by with absolute scrub placekickers.  It costs some poor program a major bowl appearance every single year.  

Edited April 25, 2019 by mannc

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's not "because of the kicking game".  It's because the scoring from kicking is part of the game.

 

Having a few more inexpensive scrubs (they aren't going to be high quality players obviously) isn't going to enhance the fan's enjoyment of the product or make 18 games any more likely. Make the roster 100, like in college.  The vast majority of extra players would never get a snap.  There are already enough extra guys to sub in during a blowout--which, in the NFL, teams rarely do anyway.  Starters stay in for blowouts.

 

You're proposing solutions to problems few fans have identified as bothersome.

 

Wrong.

 

Only 16 games is bothersome to fans and owners and networks.........the season is FAR SHORT of satisfying demand........... and "not enough money" is a huge problem for players and recruitment into football.

 

Two more games is the ideal solution.

 

Other sports deal with bigger rosters and longer seasons..............the Yankees currently have 13 players on the DL.........but they have a 40 man roster and everyone is playing baseball.     There are no inactives or "practice squad" players.    Those things are just dumb and counter productive to player development.

 

Go to 18 games over 20 weeks........two byes.......still a preseason because you need more development of that back end of the roster.

 

This gives teams just enough of a W-L cushion where they can afford to rotate players more and manage their roster for rest.     4th down becomes used offensively A LOT more.    High leverage downs are exciting and make stars out of players.    Not kickers........PLAYERS.

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Wrong.

 

Only 16 games is bothersome to fans and owners and networks.........the season is FAR SHORT of satisfying demand........... and "not enough money" is a huge problem for players and recruitment into football.

 

Two more games is the ideal solution.

 

Other sports deal with bigger rosters and longer seasons..............the Yankees currently have 13 players on the DL.........but they have a 40 man roster and everyone is playing baseball.     There are no inactives or "practice squad" players.    Those things are just dumb and counter productive to player development.

 

Go to 18 games over 20 weeks........two byes.......still a preseason because you need more development of that back end of the roster.

 

This gives teams just enough of a W-L cushion where they can afford to rotate players more and manage their roster for rest.     4th down becomes used offensively A LOT more.    High leverage downs are exciting and make stars out of players.    Not kickers........PLAYERS.

 

 

Nah.  Fans like kickers and kicking.  It adds to the drama, lessens the futility (4th and long).

 

Players don't want 18 games.  If the NFL tries to sell this to the NFLPA by saying "We'll make it work by hiring more backups so you can get more rest during the season!" they will be (rightfully) laughed out of the room.  They won't play more games for the same money with the extra revenue 2 games bring going to bench guys.  They also know that they are not going to be subbed in and out like NBA players or MLB farm hands.  They will also know what is inherently obvious:  2 more games means 2 more W's they will need.  No HC is going to bank on some "cushion" because in the NFL (16 games, 18 games, whatever) EVERY game is precious.  That's what separates the NFL from every other league which plays scores of meaningless games through very long and boring seasons.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Nah.  Fans like kickers and kicking.  It adds to the drama, lessens the futility (4th and long).

 

Players don't want 18 games.  If the NFL tries to sell this to the NFLPA by saying "We'll make it work by hiring more backups so you can get more rest during the season!" they will be (rightfully) laughed out of the room.  They won't play more games for the same money with the extra revenue 2 games bring going to bench guys.  They also know that they are not going to be subbed in and out like NBA players or MLB farm hands.  They will also know what is inherently obvious:  2 more games means 2 more W's they will need.  No HC is going to bank on some "cushion" because in the NFL (16 games, 18 games, whatever) EVERY game is precious.  That's what separates the NFL from every other league which plays scores of meaningless games through very long and boring seasons.

 

 

Disagree with everything you said.    

 

Not a single valid point.

 

But then you were also the guy that mocked the idea that Jason Peters was going to be a HOF'er last season when it's pretty much a given at this point so I take it in perspective.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Not really.  Just that guy.

That’s fair.  But if Allen put up those stats in his first playoff game, I would have been fine with it because it was a playoff game.  Plenty of QBs have crapped the bed in their first playoff start. 

[Mr. WEO]

28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

That’s fair.  But if Allen put up those stats in his first playoff game, I would have been fine with it because it was a playoff game.  Plenty of QBs have crapped the bed in their first playoff start. 

 

 

If Allen had put up those numbers in his 8th start after looking very mediocre in his previous 7, I would be very worried.

 

Allen looked like he was figuring things out (actually improvising some!) as the season went on.  Jackson was struggling mightily throughout. 

 

The book on Allen by the end of the season was "wow--he can run!  But this team can't win in the long run with him having to run so much" 

 

The book on Allen was "this guy can't pass.  There's no way the team can continue to win with a QB who can't throw".

 

All the Chargers did was drop 7 guys back in coverage and Jackson was totally lost.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Disagree with everything you said.    

 

Not a single valid point.

 

But then you were also the guy that mocked the idea that Jason Peters was going to be a HOF'er last season when it's pretty much a given at this point so I take it in perspective.

 

You're right. 

 

1. The NFLPA will agree to 18 games for little or no extra money on the pretext that it will give starters a few games off. 

 

2. Coaches and owners will allow for a "cushion" of losses with this longer season.

 

3. The entirety of NFL fandom is clamoring to get rid of FGs and punts in favor of simply handing the ball over to the opposing Offense after scoring (TDs only) or failed 4th downs....

 

 

....and it follows that ALL of this is true and "valid" because I mocked Peters as HOFer.

 

Well argued.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

You're right. 

 

1. The NFLPA will agree to 18 games for little or no extra money on the pretext that it will give starters a few games off. 

 

2. Coaches and owners will allow for a "cushion" of losses with this longer season.

 

3. The entirety of NFL fandom is clamoring to get rid of FGs and punts in favor of simply handing the ball over to the opposing Offense after scoring (TDs only) or failed 4th downs....

 

 

....and it follows that ALL of this is true and "valid" because I mocked Peters as HOFer.

 

Well argued.

 

 

1) Why would there be little or no extra money?    There will be A LOT more money.    How many times do I have to repeat it?   Are you living under a rock?   As long as the NFL keeps adding value to the product the money will keep increasing.

 

2) The more games you play then typically the lower the winning %'s are for the better teams.     In baseball nobody wins 11 of every 16 over the course of a whole season.    In the NFL that % doesn't even get you home field.   So what if 13-5 becomes the new 12-4?................that just keeps the season interesting longer if you lose some games early.  

 

3) The league is reducing the impact of special teams.    Punts and kickoffs are dead plays walking.   That's not even debatable.  So you want to keep all those players around just to kick a ball thru the uprights? 

 

The change will start at the HS and college levels.    That's where parents have to decide whether to send their kids into harms way in exchange for letter jackets and a piece of paper.    It will be a business decision.   And once it passes the test there.........it will already be tested and ready for the NFL to adopt.    

Edited April 25, 2019 by BADOLBILZ