With the 9th pick the Bills take MLB Devin White

[formerlyofCtown]

7 hours ago, Rocket94 said:

I believe that White is superior to Milano. Milano sits. Thats it. The Bills would have to draft White first for this to happen. This is a business...not Pop Warner or Mayberry.

Milano was rated higher than Edmonds last season.  As a matter of fact he was the highest rated LB in the AFCE last season.  Do you watch football, the only thing the guy does is make plays. 

 

You find a way to have all three on the field.  Milano would likely play the hybrid role in the big nickel.

[LSHMEAB]

4 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

I have made a good living and part of it was thinking "outside the box."    What is wrong with the idea of going to a 3-4 defense as an alternative?   We have a bunch of so-so DE/EDGE rushers.  We could draft or cultivate some 3-4 EDGE guys and play 3 pass good LB & a safety/LB type and 2 safeties  and 2 CB  (that adds up to eleven) on those obvious passing plays at long yardage AND at 3rd and 8.  
 

It sounds more like you want to be a GM than analyze the Bills situation.

 

McDermott is not going to change his entire defensive personnel alignment because of one linebacker(or any other circumstance.)

[maryland-bills-fan]

7 hours ago, TigerJ said:

I think Devin White is going to be an outstanding middle linebacker in the NFL.  I also think that when McBeane traded up to pick Edmunds last year they knew exactly what they were doing and intended that Edmunds was going to be their long term answer at middle linebacker.  I don't think Edmunds did anthing or failed to do something that has dissuaded them of the convictions they had about Edmunds last year.  Given that there are some other areas of need and the possibility of some outstanding prospects at those positions, I just don't think the Bills are going to pick White.  If I'm wrong, they I will be surprised and amazed, but until then I will continue to have that opinion of the Bills' draft plans.

If we get White, it will be more important to figure out a way to use both, rather than sticking with the old plan.   Don't build unnecessary walls around what approach we can take.

7 hours ago, BakersBills said:

Wouldn’t make sense we play nickel a lot 

When you get different weapons, you are allowed to change your approach.  You do not get a fine from the NFL for playing defense with a different emphasis than last year. 

 

5 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

It sounds more like you want to be a GM than analyze the Bills situation.

 

McDermott is not going to change his entire defensive personnel alignment because of one linebacker(or any other circumstance.)

then fire him

[ProcessTruster]

18 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Devin White is good and may even go Top 5. But he is not in a superior draft grade category to Q. Williams, Ed Oliver or even Montez Sweat. Bills are not taking him when impactful Dline BPAs are available.

I want DLs guys who are closer to the QB.   QB pressures and great QB play by your QB are the difference between winning and losing in todays NFL

[Dopey]

12 hours ago, TigerJ said:

I think Devin White is going to be an outstanding middle linebacker in the NFL.  I also think that when McBeane traded up to pick Edmunds last year they knew exactly what they were doing and intended that Edmunds was going to be their long term answer at middle linebacker.  I don't think Edmunds did anthing or failed to do something that has dissuaded them of the convictions they had about Edmunds last year.  Given that there are some other areas of need and the possibility of some outstanding prospects at those positions, I just don't think the Bills are going to pick White.  If I'm wrong, they I will be surprised and amazed, but until then I will continue to have that opinion of the Bills' draft plans.

Good post and you make a ton of sense, but I don't think it's a stretch to think Edmunds can replace Lorax on the outside. Edmunds can cover te's and rb's coming out of the backfield. Edmunds is a smart guy who can play multiple positions(mlb,olb, even edge). Plus we drafted Kyle's replacement last year. I think Phillips is going to surprise us with his play. He led his college team in tackles as an interior dlineman. The draft is for building the team, not just plugging an immediate hole. We are thin at lb. Lorax is 80 yrs old and probably won't be back next year. This pick wouldn't be just for 2019. Milano, White and Edmunds for the next 5-7 yrs would be awesome. Plus dl depth in the draft is better than at lb. Especially stud lbs. Just my .02$

Edited April 21, 2019 by Dopey

[CuddyDark]

21 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Shocker?  Not really.    Beane has said and shown last year, that he wants to get impact players from the draft. Not nice and good starter but impact players.   The Bills can let the draft come to them this year and they are in the position, where moving up gets real expensive. Move up one spot and it cost 50 points but every step up from that costs 100 points.   In this scenerio, Oliver, the 3 technique DT is already taken and the Bills build a linebacker corp that is awesome.  No weak links, all fast and hard-hitting stars, good in pass coverage and something that will give opposing offensives fits.  Let's look at what they have now.

 

Starters:            Milano     Edmunds     L.Alexander                quite a good start.                                 L.Alexander is sort of a DE/LB type with 13 years on the clock.

Backups;   M.Alexander(5)- a sort of safety/LB      Deon Lacey(3)           Juilus Stanford(6)       corey Thompson(2)                  Really, have you heard of these fellows?

 

 

 

Edmunds plays SAM  , Milano plays WILL and White plays MIKE.   All three are 3 down players.  Edmunds and White are threats to rush the passer.  Yes, we often played with 2 LB last year on 3rd down.  With different players, the scheme can change.  Now what about White?  ( http://walterfootball.com/draft2019ILB.php)
 

 

OKAY.   we draft 1st round linebackers in two successive years and with Milano have the best LB group in the league.  What did so scouts say about Devin White?

 

Here is how one of the National scouts summarized White:  (same Walter football piece)
 

"

 

OKAY,  he is a difference maker and there will be no weak spots in the linebacker corp.  With our good defensive backs the defense should be outstanding.

 

Now, what about defensive tackle?     I would want Oliver but if he is gone, we will be down a tier in defensive tackles and there are a lot of high ceiling 3-technique guys with decent floors available later in the draft that we don't have to reach for.  For example:  (comments copied from walter football)
 

 

 

 

I see no reason why he couldn't move to the interior.

  ::

 

We could get a short term 1 year rental of a veteran while these DT develop or just go with the Phillips and some rookie DT's.    About defensive tackles, please look at     who try to but a value on "disruptive value"   a.k.a.  (sacks + tackles for loss) per game.  Oliver, Saunders, and Zack Allen look pretty good there.https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2019/4/10/18300761/finding-the-superior-athlete-impact-defensive-tackles-in-the-2019-nfl-draft

People with this view of Edmunds really don't have any understanding of our defense. The Bills actually play a stacked outside leverage where they actually need two MLBs for the defense to work properly. One has to be a long cover backer who can take away the middle of the field in coverage. Like Brian Urlacher or Luke Kuechly. The MLB position Edmunds plays is actually a large safety position in this defense. The Outside stack is actually the true MLB and he has to be able to cover and make play at or behind the LOS. Like Thomas Davis or Lance Briggs. If the Bills draft Devin White it would not be a shock. He is a perfect fit for their stack outside position.

[billsbackto81]

2 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

People with this view of Edmunds really don't have any understanding of our defense. The Bills actually play a stacked outside leverage where they actually need two MLBs for the defense to work properly. One has to be a long cover backer who can take away the middle of the field in coverage. Like Brian Urlacher or Luke Kuechly. The MLB position Edmunds plays is actually a large safety position in this defense. The Outside stack is actually the true MLB and he has to be able to cover and make play at or behind the LOS. Like Thomas Davis or Lance Briggs. If the Bills draft Devin White it would not be a shock. He is a perfect fit for their stack outside position.

Good post! I like Milano and Edmunds and they're an up and coming LB tandem but let's not confuse them for Willis and Bowman. If White is on the board at 9 with Oliver gone already he'd be a great pick and round out a very nice LB group. I know we play 2 LBs more times than not but if either go down with injury we have nothing as far as quality depth.

[LSHMEAB]

8 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

If we get White, it will be more important to figure out a way to use both, rather than sticking with the old plan.   Don't build unnecessary walls around what approach we can take.

When you get different weapons, you are allowed to change your approach.  You do not get a fine from the NFL for playing defense with a different emphasis than last year. 

 

What you're advocating for is essentially using Devin White as a big safety. Not the worst idea ever. The guy had 8.5 sacks in 3 seasons at LSU so he certainly hasn't proven to be a great pass rusher. I guess it depends on your defensive philosophy. The plan you're espousing would entail sacrificing pass rush for more coverage. I prefer a more aggressive defense, but to each their own.

[maryland-bills-fan]

4 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

People with this view of Edmunds really don't have any understanding of our defense. The Bills actually play a stacked outside leverage where they actually need two MLBs for the defense to work properly. One has to be a long cover backer who can take away the middle of the field in coverage. Like Brian Urlacher or Luke Kuechly. The MLB position Edmunds plays is actually a large safety position in this defense. The Outside stack is actually the true MLB and he has to be able to cover and make play at or behind the LOS. Like Thomas Davis or Lance Briggs. If the Bills draft Devin White it would not be a shock. He is a perfect fit for their stack outside position.

Can you give me a reference to understand "stacked outside leverage" that requires two MLB?  I never heard of it and like to hear of and learn new things.

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

What you're advocating for is essentially using Devin White as a big safety. Not the worst idea ever. The guy had 8.5 sacks in 3 seasons at LSU so he certainly hasn't proven to be a great pass rusher. I guess it depends on your defensive philosophy. The plan you're espousing would entail sacrificing pass rush for more coverage. I prefer a more aggressive defense, but to each their own.

  I think that actually rather, White would play the stacked outside leverage guy and Edmounds would be the big safety guy.  I'm guessing from Duddydarks posting.

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by maryland-bills-fan

[Thurman#1]

Very unlikely in several ways.

 

First, that White would be available at #9. 

 

And second that they would want White, who seems to be a classic MLB, not a Seth or a Wally (sorry, I'm bored), to call signals as a rookie. If Edmunds plays the Solomon, you've got a rookie signal caller yet again, in a year when they start to feel pressure to improve in the wins column. And  have a surfeit of good fast LBs. 

 

Doubt it for those reasons.

 

 

[3rdand12]

On 4/20/2019 at 1:10 PM, maryland-bills-fan said:

Shocker?  Not really.    Beane has said and shown last year, that he wants to get impact players from the draft. Not nice and good starter but impact players.   The Bills can let the draft come to them this year and they are in the position, where moving up gets real expensive. Move up one spot and it cost 50 points but every step up from that costs 100 points.   In this scenerio, Oliver, the 3 technique DT is already taken and the Bills build a linebacker corp that is awesome.  No weak links, all fast and hard-hitting stars, good in pass coverage and something that will give opposing offensives fits.  Let's look at what they have now.

 

Starters:            Milano     Edmunds     L.Alexander                quite a good start.                                 L.Alexander is sort of a DE/LB type with 13 years on the clock.

Backups;   M.Alexander(5)- a sort of safety/LB      Deon Lacey(3)           Juilus Stanford(6)       corey Thompson(2)                  Really, have you heard of these fellows?

 

 

 

Edmunds plays SAM  , Milano plays WILL and White plays MIKE.   All three are 3 down players.  Edmunds and White are threats to rush the passer.  Yes, we often played with 2 LB last year on 3rd down.  With different players, the scheme can change.  Now what about White?  ( http://walterfootball.com/draft2019ILB.php)
 

 

OKAY.   we draft 1st round linebackers in two successive years and with Milano have the best LB group in the league.  What did so scouts say about Devin White?

 

Here is how one of the National scouts summarized White:  (same Walter football piece)
 

"

 

OKAY,  he is a difference maker and there will be no weak spots in the linebacker corp.  With our good defensive backs the defense should be outstanding.

 

Now, what about defensive tackle?     I would want Oliver but if he is gone, we will be down a tier in defensive tackles and there are a lot of high ceiling 3-technique guys with decent floors available later in the draft that we don't have to reach for.  For example:  (comments copied from walter football)
 

 

 

 

I see no reason why he couldn't move to the interior.

  ::

 

We could get a short term 1 year rental of a veteran while these DT develop or just go with the Phillips and some rookie DT's.    About defensive tackles, please look at     who try to but a value on "disruptive value"   a.k.a.  (sacks + tackles for loss) per game.  Oliver, Saunders, and Zack Allen look pretty good there.https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2019/4/10/18300761/finding-the-superior-athlete-impact-defensive-tackles-in-the-2019-nfl-draft

Very thorough. The majority of folks here do not feel  Bills need that player.
Being able to flex alignments from game to game and situational football is the key to success. White is an impact player.
I would be delighted honestly.

 His value is higher than 9 IMO and do not see him  avaialble to Bills.
but if he does....

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Dopey said:

Good post and you make a ton of sense, but I don't think it's a stretch to think Edmunds can replace Lorax on the outside. Edmunds can cover te's and rb's coming out of the backfield. Edmunds is a smart guy who can play multiple positions(mlb,olb, even edge). Plus we drafted Kyle's replacement last year. I think Phillips is going to surprise us with his play. He led his college team in tackles as an interior dlineman. The draft is for building the team, not just plugging an immediate hole. We are thin at lb. Lorax is 80 yrs old and probably won't be back next year. This pick wouldn't be just for 2019. Milano, White and Edmunds for the next 5-7 yrs would be awesome. Plus dl depth in the draft is better than at lb. Especially stud lbs. Just my .02$

One of the points you make is spot on.

Edmunds intelligence fits well no matter where you put him. Having three very smart players at LB is better than having two.
McD loves them guys who know what the whole Defense is doing and going to do.Because they also know what the Offense is doing.
White would be an asset in a big way. Frazier has seen enough fotbal to make it work and confuse offenses,

[TigerJ]

8 hours ago, Dopey said:

Good post and you make a ton of sense, but I don't think it's a stretch to think Edmunds can replace Lorax on the outside. Edmunds can cover te's and rb's coming out of the backfield. Edmunds is a smart guy who can play multiple positions(mlb,olb, even edge). Plus we drafted Kyle's replacement last year. I think Phillips is going to surprise us with his play. He led his college team in tackles as an interior dlineman. The draft is for building the team, not just plugging an immediate hole. We are thin at lb. Lorax is 80 yrs old and probably won't be back next year. This pick wouldn't be just for 2019. Milano, White and Edmunds for the next 5-7 yrs would be awesome. Plus dl depth in the draft is better than at lb. Especially stud lbs. Just my .02$

I don't think it is impossible for the Bills to end up with Devin White, but the Bills would need to be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is the best player available.

[Dopey]

2 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I don't think it is impossible for the Bills to end up with Devin White, but the Bills would need to be convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is the best player available.

I just like that we are finally in a position to be able to take BPA. Last year we HAD to get a QB. Being in this position leads to so many options. Whatever Beane does, I trust him.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Dopey

[CuddyDark]

3 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

Can you give me a reference to understand "stacked outside leverage" that requires two MLB?  I never heard of it and like to hear of and learn new things.

  I think that actually rather, White would play the stacked outside leverage guy and Edmounds would be the big safety guy.  I'm guessing from Duddydarks posting.

 

The cover 2 MIKE is a converted safety position where you have to be better in coverage then a traditional MLB. (So whoever plays there has to be a coverage player.)

 

On the outside they use a Sam who they want to line up Stacked next to the MIKE. Majority of the time in Cover 2 and Cover 3 the way they use the Stack for the Sam is to line him up in the middle and play in the A gap. He has to play on the LOS. Bills don't have this player. They use Zo at times. Stack is just the lineup. Look at the Panthers and Thomas Davis, that's the player they need more on defense. A true Stack player which White would be and a 3tech.

 

Just google cover 2 MIKE and you'll see what I mean about Edmunds being better for the MIKE then White.

 

Look here. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/1/12/14236950/sean-mcdermott-buffalo-bills-head-coach-4-3-defense-all-22

 

 Look for player 58. That's the player White would be for the Bills. This is the Panther lineups before we hired McDermott so it's his coaching.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by CuddyDark

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

The cover 2 MIKE is a converted safety position where you have to be better in coverage then a traditional MLB. (So whoever they plays there has to be a coverage player.)

On the outside they use a Sam who they want to line up Stacked next to the MIKE. Majority of the time in Cover 2 and Cover 3 the way they use the Stack for the Sam is to line him up in the middle and play in the A gap. He has to play on the LOS. Bills don't have this player. They use Zo at times. Stack is just the lineup. Look at the Panthers and Thomas Davis, that's the player they need more on defense. A true Stack player which White would be and a 3tech.

 

Just google cover 2 MIKE and you'll see what I mean about Edmunds being better for the MIKE then White.

 

Look here. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/1/12/14236950/sean-mcdermott-buffalo-bills-head-coach-4-3-defense-all-22

 

 Look for player 58. That's the player White would be for the Bills. This is the Panther lineups before we hired McDermott so it's his coaching.

Appreciate the research. My issue would be this. Davis is lined up at WLB in every formation(outside of the anomalous stacked left side). Kind of odd how they've chosen to use Milano in a different role than Davis, but you have to respect the adaptability. I feel like drafting White would leave Milano on the bench quite a bit considering the frequency of 2 LB sets. Not a fan of that aspect of this proposition. I would still prefer they draft Oliver or Metcalf if all three were available(which they won't be), but this info is certainly interesting and demonstrates White's potential role in a McD scheme.

[TigerJ]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

I just like that we are finally in a position to be able to take BPA. Last year we HAD to get a QB. Being in this position leads to so many options. Whatever Beane does, I trust him.

Agreed.  Beane is in a much stronger position in this draft, and he is a shrewd general manager.  

[row_33]

apparently Bosa will be available at #9 according to a genius on another thread.

 

[CuddyDark]

14 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Appreciate the research. My issue would be this. Davis is lined up at WLB in every formation(outside of the anomalous stacked left side). Kind of odd how they've chosen to use Milano in a different role than Davis, but you have to respect the adaptability. I feel like drafting White would leave Milano on the bench quite a bit considering the frequency of 2 LB sets. Not a fan of that aspect of this proposition. I would still prefer they draft Oliver or Metcalf if all three were available(which they won't be), but this info is certainly interesting and demonstrates White's potential role in a McD scheme.

Actually it would be better for Milano because he would assume the role Shaq Thompson and Derrick Brooks played. He would be used more in coverage and have more opportunities to make plays on the ball. He'd be used less on the LOS which would be a benefit to his career because he doesn't have the size to be a full time player down there. Plus they could disguise more plays and stay out of big nickel by using him as the big safety.

[maryland-bills-fan]

Another thing to think about is that "they" are claiming that there are a lot of superior defensive linemen who will be taken early.     7 DT and 5 DE (?) out of 32.   Now for a question as to what the situation is.  Are these guys "extra" over the usually draft supply of d-linemen or  are there just the normal numbers BUT more of them are blue chippers?     Let me explain what I am trying to say.   Making up numbers for purpose of illustration:

 

                             

ROUND         typical draft situation       this year better                                     More great players

                                                                    2nd rounders move up                       some number of good players

=======================================================================================

1                   A+   A+                              A+   A+   A+   A+  A+                                   A+   A+   A+   A+  A+

                      A   A                                   A    A      A                                                   A    A      A  

                     A-                                         A-    A-   A-                                                  A-    A-   A-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2                  A-                                                                                                              A-                       

                    B+   B+                                                                                                     B+   B+

                     B     B   B                                                                                                  B  B  B

                    B-   B-                                B-     B-                                                             B-  B-

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3                   B-                                       B-                                                                B-

                      C+   C+   C+                    C+   C+  C+                                                  C+  C+   C+

                        C   C    C                          C   C    C                                                       C  C  C

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So which situation is it this year?   

 

IF the world is in the second column this year, then we DON'T want to draft a D-line in the second round because we would be getting a weaker player.  A stopgap veteran in trade or FA or roster drop might be a good plan. 

 

If the situation is the third column, then we would be okay in getting a d-lineman in the second round- it might even be a better player than you would get in the second round most years because of the run on the first round guys.  There might be some steals.

 

Any thoughts on it