SoCoBills Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 19 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The Jamestown colony tried socialism and almost completely failed. When a form of capitalism was introduced it prospered. Bernie has stated in the past that bread lines are a good thing. Omfg with the bread lines. You really regurgitate Fox News Propaganda. He doesn't think people should have to wait in line starving for bread. If you listen to context of anything ever or just used your brain you would know this isn't true. Come on, stick to reality and don't talk crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: The Jamestown colony tried socialism and almost completely failed. The failing at Jamestown had nothing to do with socialism. They ran out of food because the large fish they were using as their primary food source dried up, and they had no means of catching smaller fish to live on (they had stopped maintaining their smaller nets, which were rotted and useless by the time they figured out they needed them again.) Well, that and they didn't bother to set up farm land outside the fort (for various reasons). Capitalism did not save them, the few remaining survivors getting evacuated and fed did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 37 minutes ago, SoCoBills said: Bernie has never said being successful is a crime. He's embraced the term socialist rather than fight it constantly of late but he is a Democratic Socialist. Socialism aspects only provide what should be human rights - access to education and healthcare. He believes in the ability to achieve the American Dream. Crony Capitalism and a corrupt and rigged economy is the greatest threat to that issue. Can you date that quote for me? I disagree with everything in this response but appreciate your attempt at a logical debate. The idea that a core value of capitalism today in America is altruism and not profit and greed above all else sounds absolutely bonkers to me. Profit and greed is the name of the game today. Not helping our neighbors. This profit and greed is what got us here. The profit motivation is forced altruism. The more greedy you are, the more forced altruism you must engage in to secure your desired wealth. Capitalism is predicated on freedom. I cannot force you to buy my product or consume my service, and I must compete with others to provide those goods and services; so I must entice you to engage with me and enter into free exchange. In order to gain your business I must provide you with a product or service you desire at a cost you are willing to pay for it. If I cannot provide you with these things, then I shall have nothing in exchange because you are free to walk away. Socialism is different. Socialism compels behavior at the barrel of a gun. It is popularized theft. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, SoCoBills said: Omfg with the bread lines. You really regurgitate Fox News Propaganda. He doesn't think people should have to wait in line starving for bread. If you listen to context of anything ever or just used your brain you would know this isn't true. Come on, stick to reality and don't talk crazy. No, he thinks a lack of bread lines means bread isn't available to the poor because the rich are stealing their food. So bread lines are a sign of a healthy economy in which the poor are participating in economic activity and have plenty to eat. While living in a country without bread lines, where for the first time in the history of the world obesity is a health issue. He praised bread lines, in a manner far stupider than 3rd even implied. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 6 hours ago, SoCoBills said: When the constitution was written a free market made sense. Competition, hard work, supply and demand and the American Dream. Now however, regulation is necessary to prevent corporate greed from ruining the economy for the benefit of the richest in the country. Our Republic doesn't represent the will of the people and that is a 100% fact. Studies have shown this. The will of the people has 0% influence on whether or not laws are passed in Congress. How many more times can we pay for bailouts? Banks are already back to handing out subprime mortgages. Again you go to the "socialism" is evil type argument but when social principals are being used to establish minimum standards of living, when money is removed from the political equation and regulation of big business creates real competition as opposed to corporate consolidation with all competitors under the same umbrella of a few parent corporations price fixing the market to suffocate consumers....then and only then in an economy this big can the will of the people and not the elite be represented. Capitalism unchecked in this modern era is all about greed, corporate consolidation, monopolizing markets and finding loopholes in laws and tax Haven's to get the rich, richer and richer. No longer does increased worker productivity equal increased wages. No longer can most families afford to have the typical old school family dynamic where Dad works and Mom is at home raising the kids and keeping the home. Now both parents must work full time, kids are raised by daycares or babysitters or if you are lucky, family members while you are at work. People call this generation lazy and entitled but this generation has it way harder than generations before it. Paychecks don't go as far as stagnant pay with increasing costs of living continues to shrink the middle class. I'm sorry I understand the fear of calling things Socialism and change being scary to some but establishing social minimums of healthcare and education as human rights is not the same thing as the government taking control of the entire economy with Socialism in the fear mongering ways Fox News pundits would have you believe. If you look at the corruption and greed of pharmaceutical and health insurance companies alone and really researched it you'd be all in on single payer. These other countries rank way higher in quality and pricing than we do. People are legit dying because they cannot afford to get healthcare they need to live and these are including people with health insurance. It doesn't matter when the constitution was drafted or that the founders believed in a free market economy. Economic principles do not change over time. Your call for greater regulation to fight corporate greed is nothing but a common slogan repeated by people who steadfastly refuse to recognize that the root of much of what plagues corporate America today is found in the already excessive amount of regulation placed upon industry and corporations. There is not a single country now or at any other time that adopted socialist principles over capitalist principles that even comes close to generating the amount of wealth that the United States does, not to mention our status as world leaders in industry and innovation in any field you can think of, while also having the highest standard of living word-wide for our working class and those below the poverty level. No system, no matter how well intended, can provide for everyone in an equal fashion, but free market capitalism has historically generated a higher standard of living across the board than any other economic system ever tried. It's honestly not even debatable. 3 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 One of the most politically influential history lessons I took was from Constantine the Great. Anybody's who has studied Rome knows when Constantine showed up the West was on HARD times. HARD TIMES. When Constantine took over he made a "stupid" decision which was incredibly bold for his time.....he reduced taxes. That's right, in debt, he lowered taxes. What happened? Economic revival and prosperity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 You all need to take a break. May I suggest you read Atlas Shrugged while you’re gone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 37 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: You all need to take a break. May I suggest you read Atlas Shrugged while you’re gone? Do NOT look into Ayn Rand’s later life, but sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: You all need to take a break. May I suggest you read Atlas Shrugged while you’re gone? Rand's economic views (not hers but borrowed from others), I largely but not completely support. Much of the rest of her stuff is silly self-absorbed crap. To read about her life is to read about a miserable human who was totally unbearable to be around, due largely to her "philosophy." Edited March 6, 2019 by BeginnersMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsSB2020 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) We've had elements of socialism since the 1940's. Social security, federal minimum wage, medicare, medicaid, unemployment. The debate is whether or not we want to embrace and add to those programs or start gutting them. Edited March 6, 2019 by BillsSB2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 hours ago, DC Tom said: No, he thinks a lack of bread lines means bread isn't available to the poor because the rich are stealing their food. So bread lines are a sign of a healthy economy in which the poor are participating in economic activity and have plenty to eat. While living in a country without bread lines, where for the first time in the history of the world obesity is a health issue. He praised bread lines, in a manner far stupider than 3rd even implied. This is what I posted: Bernie has stated in the past that bread lines are a good thing. As far as I'm concerned that represents exactly what Saunders said. I didn't imply anything, I stated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: This is what I posted: Bernie has stated in the past that bread lines are a good thing. As far as I'm concerned that represents exactly what Saunders said. I didn't imply anything, I stated it. It is a good thing. For socialists. Teach the people to eat out of your hand and they’ll forget how to hunt. They won’t want to hunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, The_Dude said: It is a good thing. For socialists. Teach the people to eat out of your hand and they’ll forget how to hunt. They won’t want to hunt. If you were a Ninja Turtle you'd be Raphael. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: If you were a Ninja Turtle you'd be Raphael. ....forgiveness is devine, but never pay full price for late pizza. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said: If you were a Ninja Turtle you'd be Raphael. But he'd still be a chucklehead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: But he'd still be a chucklehead. You would be April’s boss. An uptight, dickwad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, The_Dude said: And he's still ignoring you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Just now, /dev/null said: And he's still ignoring you What a chucklehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, /dev/null said: And he's still ignoring you Tell him if he comes back I won’t do it again. I just had too much to drink last time. Tell him for me. Will ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I still can't see what you're posting, chucklehead. It's awesome, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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