Federal Judge rules male only draft unconstitutional

[The_Dude]

 

Also let me say, it is my greatest hope my boys never have to fire a shot in anger. People have a hard time understanding my politics because they don’t understand that to create peace you have to do so with unparalleled savagery in war, magnimity in victory, and an aggressive, uncompromising posture during peace to keep it. I understand those simple truths and my politics orbit them. 

[Tiberius]

Do they have to get their heads shaved? Fair is fair! 

[The_Dude]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Do they have to get their heads shaved? Fair is fair! 

 

I insist women are shaved, but not the head. 

[sherpa]

Marine Corps PRT standards to Max.

Men 3 mile Run 18 Minutes. Woman 21 minutes.

Men Pull-ups 20. Woman (arm Hang) 70 seconds.

Men Crunches 100. Woman Crunches 100

[Hedge]

2 hours ago, sherpa said:

Marine Corps PRT standards to Max.

Men 3 mile Run 18 Minutes. Woman 21 minutes.

Men Pull-ups 20. Woman (arm Hang) 70 seconds.

Men Crunches 100. Woman Crunches 100

 

I'm curious, is there a requirement to see if someone can (solo) carry a body that weighs ~200 lbs? It would seem to me that being able to haul someone who is wounded and can't walk would be paramount. I highly doubt any small units would want someone in them who couldn't do this.

[DC Tom]

Just now, Hedge said:

 

I'm curious, is there a requirement to see if someone can (solo) carry a body that weighs ~200 lbs? It would seem to me that being able to haul someone who is wounded and can't walk would be paramount. I highly doubt any small units would want someone in them who couldn't do this.

 

Generally, you don't evacuate team members.  At most, you stabilize them, then let the medic/corpsman treat them while you continue the mission.  

 

Not a hard rule, of course - I know someone who engaged a shooter in Iraq, then carried two injured men to a Humvee (with a shattered arm of his own) and evac'd them (deserved a Silver Star for it, only got a Bronze Star for some reason.)  But generally, you're not carrying the wounded to safety.  But generally, you want the troops to continue the mission, and leave evacuation of the wounded to the people who's mission it is.  Plus...the average combat infantryman is carrying far too much ***** to carry a person besides...

[Chef Jim]

18 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

I’ll literally fight. I’ll kill a mother ***** if they try to draft my daughter. 

 

You need a refund from your psych doc on  your PTSD treatments.  

[The_Dude]

2 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Generally, you don't evacuate team members.  At most, you stabilize them, then let the medic/corpsman treat them while you continue the mission.  

 

Not a hard rule, of course - I know someone who engaged a shooter in Iraq, then carried two injured men to a Humvee (with a shattered arm of his own) and evac'd them (deserved a Silver Star for it, only got a Bronze Star for some reason.)  But generally, you're not carrying the wounded to safety.  But generally, you want the troops to continue the mission, and leave evacuation of the wounded to the people who's mission it is.  Plus...the average combat infantryman is carrying far too much ***** to carry a person besides...

 

Wrong. Wrong. Just wrong. 

 

So much wrong here. But how would you know? You’ve never evacuated anybody, little lamb. 

[The_Dude]

18 minutes ago, Hedge said:

 

I'm curious, is there a requirement to see if someone can (solo) carry a body that weighs ~200 lbs? It would seem to me that being able to haul someone who is wounded and can't walk would be paramount. I highly doubt any small units would want someone in them who couldn't do this.

 

That is correct. 

 

One of my best buddies is a big fella. 6’4”. I’m 5’6”. In training I was constantly fireman carrying his big ass. Everybody needs to be able to evacuate anybody. I’d like to see a 5’6” girl carry a grown man that’s 6’4” in full battle rattle. That ain’t happenin. 

[sherpa]

30 minutes ago, Hedge said:

 

I'm curious, is there a requirement to see if someone can (solo) carry a body that weighs ~200 lbs? It would seem to me that being able to haul someone who is wounded and can't walk would be paramount. I highly doubt any small units would want someone in them who couldn't do this.

 

Ground guys can answer that. I can't.

 

My experience is in Navy carrier based fighters, and the experiences involving females in that arena, along with other very bad experiences attempting to get other special situations into an area that has no margin for error.

[DC Tom]

50 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Ground guys can answer that. I can't.

 

My experience is in Navy carrier based fighters, and the experiences involving females in that arena, along with other very bad experiences attempting to get other special situations into an area that has no margin for error.

 

Less a function of "women" being incapable, than women who were unqualified being pushed, for social-engineering reasons, into situations they weren't prepared for.  It's not their fault because they're female.  It's the fault of an organization being paradoxically told that women have to be held to a lower standard to demonstrate they're equal.

 

Did anyone ever conclusively determine Hultgreen was underqualified?  Certainly her crash was pilot error, and fairly obvious at that...but the F-14A wasn't exactly pilot-friendly to begin with, and has killed more than its share of pilots.  

[The_Dude]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

Ground guys can answer that. I can't.

 

My experience is in Navy carrier based fighters, and the experiences involving females in that arena, along with other very bad experiences attempting to get other special situations into an area that has no margin for error.

 

I have so many questions. I’m fascinated with the Navy. I’m terrified of the air and I don’t like the open sea so I would never join the navy. I like my boots on the ground. So, stupid question, how do you guys do pretend fighting? Like in the army we’d wear awful laser gear crap, we’d set up an opfor, and then shoot at each other with blanks. Do y’all do something similar only with boats? Also, what happens when there’s a foreign sub around y’all? I know nothing of boat fighting. Forgive my ignorance. 

[sherpa]

2 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

Did anyone ever conclusively determine Hultgreen was underqualified?  Certainly her crash was pilot error, and fairly obvious at that...but the F-14A wasn't exactly pilot-friendly to begin with, and has killed more than its share of pilots.  

 

She wasn't "under qualified."

She was incompetent, and the F-14 was a relatively easy plane to bring aboard the ship.

 

[DC Tom]

1 minute ago, sherpa said:

 

She wasn't "under qualified."

She was incompetent, and the F-14 was a relatively easy plane to bring aboard the ship.

 

 

Fine.  Was there ever an official finding she was incompetent?

 

And you know the engine issues in the A-model made it an unforgiving airplane.  Her crash was an obvious compressor stall, incorrectly handled.

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, The_Dude said:

 

I have so many questions. I’m fascinated with the Navy. I’m terrified of the air and I don’t like the open sea so I would never join the navy. I like my boots on the ground. So, stupid question, how do you guys do pretend fighting? Like in the army we’d wear awful laser gear crap, we’d set up an opfor, and then shoot at each other with blanks. Do y’all do something similar only with boats? Also, what happens when there’s a foreign sub around y’all? I know nothing of boat fighting. Forgive my ignorance. 

 

I was a pilot, so the way we fought against ships was to set up a strike and try to get to them before they shot us down. Easy to determine who got who first.

Only at sea though. 

Subs are a different breed. You know when they are around, and they are always around when there's a carrier involved. Usually get picked up as soon as we left Hawaii,  but our subs and anti sub airplanes are on them at all times.

After my sea tour, I was fortunate to go to TopGun as an aggressor. Those are the guys who fight the class. In the movie, its the guys who are running the scenarios and the guys Cruz fought.

Had the great opportunity to fight many different Air Forces all over the world, as well as our own Navy and Air Force hundreds of times.

Many different scenarios. 

A lot of fun.

 

[sherpa]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Fine.  Was there ever an official finding she was incompetent?

 

And you know the engine issues in the A-model made it an unforgiving airplane.  Her crash was an obvious compressor stall, incorrectly handled.

 

Tom. I like what you you do here. but your conclusions are from reading reports.

She caused the compressor stall, which was never proven, by the way, by jamming full left rudder during an overshoot of the center line of the carrier.

This is a Cessna move, and she had done it before.

She had dis-qualled before for the same reason.

She jammed the rudder, never done in a jet airplane, stalled the airplane and the RIO command ejected the both of them.

She was totally incompetent, and the F-14, again, was a relatively easy airplane to get aboard.

 

[The_Dude]

34 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

I was a pilot, so the way we fought against ships was to set up a strike and try to get to them before they shot us down. Easy to determine who got who first.

Only at sea though. 

Subs are a different breed. You know when they are around, and they are always around when there's a carrier involved. Usually get picked up as soon as we left Hawaii,  but our subs and anti sub airplanes are on them at all times.

After my sea tour, I was fortunate to go to TopGun as an aggressor. Those are the guys who fight the class. In the movie, its the guys who are running the scenarios and the guys Cruz fought.

Had the great opportunity to fight many different Air Forces all over the world, as well as our own Navy and Air Force hundreds of times.

Many different scenarios. 

A lot of fun.

 

 

Thats awesome man. Well, this might sound weird but thanks for giving a ***** and for your service. 

29 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

Tom. I like what you you do here. but your conclusions are from reading reports.

She caused the compressor stall, which was never proven, by the way, by jamming full left rudder during an overshoot of the center line of the carrier.

This is a Cessna move, and she had done it before.

She had dis-qualled before for the same reason.

She jammed the rudder, never done in a jet airplane, stalled the airplane and the RIO command ejected the both of them.

She was totally incompetent, and the F-14, again, was a relatively easy airplane to get aboard.

 

 

Whats your take on women in combat. The only ones I knew of that were even a little competent I never met. They were helicopter pilots that I talked to on the radio. Seemed ok up there. I don’t trust them though. Never have. They just don’t make split second decisive decisions like men.  

[The_Dude]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

I was a pilot, so the way we fought against ships was to set up a strike and try to get to them before they shot us down. Easy to determine who got who first.

Only at sea though. 

Subs are a different breed. You know when they are around, and they are always around when there's a carrier involved. Usually get picked up as soon as we left Hawaii,  but our subs and anti sub airplanes are on them at all times.

After my sea tour, I was fortunate to go to TopGun as an aggressor. Those are the guys who fight the class. In the movie, its the guys who are running the scenarios and the guys Cruz fought.

Had the great opportunity to fight many different Air Forces all over the world, as well as our own Navy and Air Force hundreds of times.

Many different scenarios. 

A lot of fun.

 

 

In international waters, do we let subs get near our carriers? At what point would a warning to back up escalate? Can/do we fire on subs near carriers? 

 

Also, are “carrier-subs” a stupid idea? The Japanese built a sub that could hold and somehow launch a couple of bombers towards the end of WWII. Not sure it was ever fully operational. Apparently we scrapped it. Not sure why we haven’t done that. Seems like an awesome idea to me though. But I know nothing of arial combat or boat war. @DC Tom you know anything about that sub the Japanese has I’m talking about? And is a carrier-sub stupid? I may want to punch your face, but I appreciate knowledge and perspective where it can be found. 

[sherpa]

9 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

In international waters, do we let subs get near our carriers? At what point would a warning to back up escalate? Can/do we fire on subs near carriers? 

 

Also, are “carrier-subs” a stupid idea? The Japanese built a sub that could hold and somehow launch a couple of bombers towards the end of WWII. Not sure it was ever fully operational. Apparently we scrapped it. Not sure why we haven’t done that. Seems like an awesome idea to me though. But I know nothing of arial combat or boat war. @DC Tom you know anything about that sub the Japanese has I’m talking about? And is a carrier-sub stupid? I may want to punch your face, but I appreciate knowledge and perspective where it can be found. 

 

I'm certain they try to track carriers, but there was a period where the Russians really didn't have many assets in shape to do it.

I'm also certain that our sub force is on them.

As I mentioned, their position relative to the task force was never mentioned.

The Soviets always had an intel ship within about 20 miles of our carrier. They always picked us up about two days out of Pearl.

 

I ran across two subs in my two cruises on Kitty Hawk, both in the Indian Ocean.

One was a Soviet sub on the surface who was heading to port with some obvious problem.

There were a couple of us buzzing it and the other guy asked on the intl emergency frequency if he was OK or needed any help and they answered they were OK, to which the other guy replied, "Is that why you're pulling a 75 mile long oil slick?" 

Clearly it was leaking something.

 

The other was kind of funny. Someone spotted a surfaced Indian sub about 80 miles from the carrier, and of course we all went over for a look when we got done doing what we were doing.

Anyway, this guy gets on the intl emerge freq., and with an obvious Indian accent states something to the effect that he is the captain of this sub , and all American Naval aircraft should immediately exit the area.  Someone says "Why?

 

He says becasue his ship is involved in an active military exercise.

Someone else says "Well, I guess you lost."

 

[DC Tom]

12 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

In international waters, do we let subs get near our carriers? At what point would a warning to back up escalate? Can/do we fire on subs near carriers? 

 

Also, are “carrier-subs” a stupid idea? The Japanese built a sub that could hold and somehow launch a couple of bombers towards the end of WWII. Not sure it was ever fully operational. Apparently we scrapped it. Not sure why we haven’t done that. Seems like an awesome idea to me though. But I know nothing of arial combat or boat war. @DC Tom you know anything about that sub the Japanese has I’m talking about? And is a carrier-sub stupid? I may want to punch your face, but I appreciate knowledge and perspective where it can be found. 

 

Of course I know.  I-400 class, carried two M6A Serian planes.  They were specifically designed as special-operations subs for the sole purpose of attacking the locks in the Panama Canal.  Stupid idea, even for the Japanese - lots of effort put in to a plan that was militarily pointless.

 

"Carrier submarines" are a non-starter, for a few reasons.  Incompatible doctrinal mix, incompatible logistical needs, the technical needs of either are incompatible with the other (how are you going to quietly maintain planes?)  Ultimately, the point of a carrier is to operate an air group, which at its simplest means "generating 180+ sorties per day," which you can't do from a submarine.