Tiberius Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 This proposal, or set of ideas, seems to have energized Republicans and terrified moderate Democrats, but I am support it myself. That they creators of this have connected it to income inequality and a better economy are something I will be watching with interest as the debate moves forward. I support it in the main because Green Energy is just simply a better idea. Once in place it will be cheaper and cleaner. No digging, shipping, processing/refining and converting into energy. It's just much more efficient and once we start moving in that direction it will get cheaper still. I very much like the foreign policy implications. Putin will be unhappy. Maybe he will actually have to hold a real election there! Ha! And we shouldn't be so tied to Saudi Arabia, that's wrong. Depending on if you believe the scientists or the Evanagelical preachers and Oil Barons, then we will be attempting to save the planet, which I am cool with. True, China and India will still be a problem, but we can lead the way in selling and developing the new technologies of clean energy. https://www.sierraclub.org/trade/what-green-new-deal Quote What is a Green New Deal? A Green New Deal is a big, bold transformation of the economy to tackle the twin crises of inequality and climate change. It would mobilize vast public resources to help us transition from an economy built on exploitation and fossil fuels to one driven by dignified work and clean energy. The status quo economy leaves millions behind. While padding the pockets of corporate polluters and billionaires, it exposes working class families, communities of color, and others to stagnant wages, toxic pollution, and dead-end jobs. The climate crisis only magnifies these systemic injustices, as hard-hit communities are hit even harder by storms, droughts, and flooding. Entrenched inequality, meanwhile, exacerbates the climate crisis by depriving frontline communities of the resources needed to adapt and cope. Climate change and inequality are inextricably linked. We cannot tackle one without addressing the other. A Green New Deal would take on both. To tackle the climate crisis at the speed that justice and science demand, a Green New Deal would upgrade our infrastructure, revitalize our energy system, retrofit our buildings, and restore our ecosystems. In so doing, a Green New Deal would cut climate pollution while creating millions of family-sustaining jobs, expanding access to clean air and water, raising wages, and building climate resilience. To counteract inequality, those benefits would go first and foremost to the working class families and communities of color that have endured the brunt of the fossil fuel economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 45 minutes ago, Tiberius said: This proposal, or set of ideas, seems to have energized Republicans and terrified moderate Democrats, but I am support it myself. That they creators of this have connected it to income inequality and a better economy are something I will be watching with interest as the debate moves forward. I support it in the main because Green Energy is just simply a better idea. Once in place it will be cheaper and cleaner. No digging, shipping, processing/refining and converting into energy. It's just much more efficient and once we start moving in that direction it will get cheaper still. I very much like the foreign policy implications. Putin will be unhappy. Maybe he will actually have to hold a real election there! Ha! And we shouldn't be so tied to Saudi Arabia, that's wrong. Depending on if you believe the scientists or the Evanagelical preachers and Oil Barons, then we will be attempting to save the planet, which I am cool with. True, China and India will still be a problem, but we can lead the way in selling and developing the new technologies of clean energy. https://www.sierraclub.org/trade/what-green-new-deal A fantasy piece. The New Testament says that the poor will always be with us. As applied to today's world there will always be those who will scheme to have more than other people. It is just human nature. Look at the Seattle company that paid all its employees the same wage a few years ago. It barely took effect when it had people either complaining or leaving the company because they saw their efforts as superior therefore worthy of greater compensation. The Green New Deal is impossible to implement per the AOC plan. A Green New Deal will not bother Putin. He will still be in power even if natural gas exports severely decline to Europe. Putin will still have a nuclear missile force to keep outsiders from pushing him out of power. Putin's biggest problem is outrunning the aging process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: A fantasy piece. The New Testament says that the poor will always be with us. As applied to today's world there will always be those who will scheme to have more than other people. It is just human nature. Look at the Seattle company that paid all its employees the same wage a few years ago. It barely took effect when it had people either complaining or leaving the company because they saw their efforts as superior therefore worthy of greater compensation. The Green New Deal is impossible to implement per the AOC plan. A Green New Deal will not bother Putin. He will still be in power even if natural gas exports severely decline to Europe. Putin will still have a nuclear missile force to keep outsiders from pushing him out of power. Putin's biggest problem is outrunning the aging process. I actually do not totally disagree with you on the first part. There will always be the poor. Only time will tell if it's a good strategy politically to connect green energy to poverty, and I hope it is. Who can be against cheaper and cleaner energy? That will help mitigate poverty. Of course it will hurt people in gas producing states. I'm totally ok with that trade off. If oil and gas prices drop as green energy keeps increasing then Putin could be in trouble. Sure, he can hide behind his nukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Trillions and trillions for BS, hate to break it to you socialists but the earth has been going through climate changes for billions of years, earth warming, then ice age, then warming, then ice age etc. What industries were around during the last ice age? I can't wait to take a train to visit the home if my grandparents in Italy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, bilzfancy said: I can't wait to take a train to visit the home if my grandparents in Italy Maybe an electric hydro train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tiberius said: I actually do not totally disagree with you on the first part. There will always be the poor. Only time will tell if it's a good strategy politically to connect green energy to poverty, and I hope it is. Who can be against cheaper and cleaner energy? That will help mitigate poverty. Of course it will hurt people in gas producing states. I'm totally ok with that trade off. If oil and gas prices drop as green energy keeps increasing then Putin could be in trouble. Sure, he can hide behind his nukes. If you agree with me in that there will always be the poor then you agree there will be income inequality. Tell me how AOC's plan be implemented without hyperinflation if the government starts printing money to pay for it? A big tax hike on all paying classes would set off a revolution in a country not prone to revolution. Or is this all a pretense to have open warfare on those who own property currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: This proposal, or set of ideas, seems to have energized Republicans and terrified moderate Democrats, but I am support it myself. That they creators of this have connected it to income inequality and a better economy are something I will be watching with interest as the debate moves forward. I support it in the main because Green Energy is just simply a better idea. Once in place it will be cheaper and cleaner. No digging, shipping, processing/refining and converting into energy. It's just much more efficient and once we start moving in that direction it will get cheaper still. I very much like the foreign policy implications. Putin will be unhappy. Maybe he will actually have to hold a real election there! Ha! And we shouldn't be so tied to Saudi Arabia, that's wrong. Depending on if you believe the scientists or the Evanagelical preachers and Oil Barons, then we will be attempting to save the planet, which I am cool with. True, China and India will still be a problem, but we can lead the way in selling and developing the new technologies of clean energy. https://www.sierraclub.org/trade/what-green-new-deal Troll alert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 California is moving ahead with its ambitious program and running into problems, just like every other new thing that's ever been tried but the people there are in full support https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2018/09/21/californias-new-100-green-energy-target-may-do-more-harm-than-good/amp/ 24 minutes ago, snafu said: Troll alert! Ignorant POS. 26 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: If you agree with me in that there will always be the poor then you agree there will be income inequality. Tell me how AOC's plan be implemented without hyperinflation if the government starts printing money to pay for it? A big tax hike on all paying classes would set off a revolution in a country not prone to revolution. Or is this all a pretense to have open warfare on those who own property currently? AOC doesn't have a plan, they put out a non specific proposal and set of goals. Starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tiberius said: California is moving ahead with its ambitious program and running into problems, just like every other new thing that's ever been tried but the people there are in full support https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2018/09/21/californias-new-100-green-energy-target-may-do-more-harm-than-good/amp/ Ignorant POS. Is that why people are leaving California (as well as NYS) in droves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 44 minutes ago, bilzfancy said: Trillions and trillions for BS, hate to break it to you socialists but the earth has been going through climate changes for billions of years, earth warming, then ice age, then warming, then ice age etc. What industries were around during the last ice age? I can't wait to take a train to visit the home if my grandparents in Italy We already spend trillions and billions supporting this dirty, inefficient energy system. How much gas does it take to make a gallon of gas now? Do you know? 1 minute ago, bilzfancy said: Is that why people are leaving California (as well as NYS) in droves? Both states are increasing in population Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 West Virginia is an energy extraction state, how's it doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: We already spend trillions and billions supporting this dirty, inefficient energy system. How much gas does it take to make a gallon of gas now? Do you know? How much what? Money? Crude oil? Rabble, rabble, rabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 You’re just bigoted against cows that fart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 19, 2019 Author Share Posted February 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, The_Dude said: How much what? Money? Crude oil? Rabble, rabble, rabble. All of the above! How much does an oil tanker cost to build, maintain and operate cost? That cost gets past along, you know. You our we're in Iraq, right? That's a cost. It's an oil cost Just now, whatdrought said: You’re just bigoted against cows that fart. Well, I like my farts better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 This whole proposal is AOC’s declaration that’s shes got ***** for brains, and the fact that the Democratic Party as a whole has endorsed it and stood behind it just shows that they too, are ***** for brains. Unless they’re actually using this as their thinly veiled white flag, knowing they won’t beat Trump and so they’re pushing the party to the left so in 2020 a “moderate” Democrat can rise from the ashes of the DNC... hmm. That would be a smart strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Tiberius said: California is moving ahead with its ambitious program and running into problems, just like every other new thing that's ever been tried but the people there are in full support https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2018/09/21/californias-new-100-green-energy-target-may-do-more-harm-than-good/amp/ Ignorant POS. AOC doesn't have a plan, they put out a non specific proposal and set of goals. Starting point. She says that it has to get done in the next 10-12 years. Sounds like a specific goal to me. Edited February 19, 2019 by RochesterRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Gator gotta Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 50 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Ignorant POS. AOC doesn't have a plan, they put out a non specific proposal and set of goals. Starting point. You don't believe any of your original post. It is a Sierra Club sales pitch. The Sierra Club is now going to set the country's environmental and economic policy -- and change us into socialists in the process, and your original post isn't trolling? Bull *****. I may may be a POS, but I'm not ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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