THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Bills Fans in the Dumps

[billspro]

At this point I’m focused on next year. I would like to offence to at least show some average play down the stretch. I’m not sure if Daboll is an issue, he seems to call resonable plays, it is probably more talent issue. I really like the Pryor signing, we at least have three number 3 WRs now. Hopefully by the time Allen gets back every is playing better and we can see Allen grow.

5 hours ago, Uncle Joe said:

 

Thanks for confirming this. I don't watch the trenches enough and don't watch after game analysis but suspected as much. I knew RI was good at pulling but didn't think Ducasse or Miller (or Bodine) had the agility. Hopefully next year we can get some interior lineman that can help with the run game.

 

This oline seems very limited in what they can do. Probably a big reason we have had trouble getting McCoy going.

6 hours ago, CLTbills said:

I live in Charlotte. I can't believe how many people said to me yesterday morning, "Holy crap Bills fans are crazy. I can't believe how loud that place sounded on TV!"

 

Made me proud ??

 

There is no other fan base that shows up like that with such a terrible team. I wonder what we would sound like with a good team?

[LABILLBACKER]

Bills fans are a rare and resilient breed. Their passion for this team will never die out, no matter how bad we may be. Breaks my heart to see this defense get such little support from the offense. My gut says Josh might not be the answer,  hope I'm wrong.  This upcoming offseason will either make or break McD & Beane. If they don't get Allen weapons, they'll both be gone.

[ctk232]

6 hours ago, Bring it said:

Nice write up. They came to play and the defense was stellar! Missed a couple of big plays that could have swung the momentum but they were great to watch! Loving the direction of this defense. They look to be a beast for years to come once the young players develop and more are added.

Looked to me that Edmunds came in with his head down on that concussion hit. Only saw the replay once but that’s what it looked like to me! Hope it’s not a recurring problem!!

 

Do you think we win that game with Josh Allen at Qb?? Can’t answer with certainty; just asking for your thoughts?

Hof.ers take time. I don’t know that you can identify that in their first 2 years. White and Edmunds have elite talent at least so far.

This defense isn’t as good as its going to be!!

I was wondering that myself - I don't believe the outcome changes much, score wise. I do think we see more sacks, however from Allen holding on to the ball too long as Anderson's decisiveness (at times) was a marked difference from the 3-5 seconds minimum that Allen typically takes during certain pass concepts. However, Anderson did make decisions that regardless of how "veteran" he is, he won't be any better than he was, only worse. I'm not sure if we see more/less/same amount of INTs (I'm including the dropped pick six as we all thought that was coming until he dropped it). But I do think we see Allen extending certain plays with his legs - Pats played more coverage not expecting Anderson to scramble, I mean who would, but I think Allen has a good game overall. 

 

The Pats don't have a great defense this year by any measure, and I would have liked to have seen not just how Allen does at home against a division rival, but more importantly, against a team that doesn't have a top offense in the league. Mostly just to see the disparity in Allen's performance vs a top 10 defense and vs a bottom 10 defense and have better data to evaluate his growth thus far.

[Shaw66]

7 hours ago, Bring it said:

 

 

Do you think we win that game with Josh Allen at Qb?? Can’t answer with certainty; just asking for your thoughts?

 

Clearly nobody knows.  But i honestly dont think Allen throws that INT.  And Allen's running would have been a factor.  

 

On the other hand, Belichick would have game planned differently and might have seriously confused Allen. 

 

 

I hope he's back soon so his education can continue.  Look at how much Zay has progresswd from year one to year two.  His time on the field last season made this season possible.  Allen needs time on the field. 

[JMF2006]

7 hours ago, Jerome007 said:

The pregame with the crazy fans, seeing Berman interviewing Kelly, Thomas, then Bruce on the show, it was just awesome.

 

My Buddy Terry and I were there in Lot 4 for most of it  

[Helpmenow]

Shaw66, the 80’s were worse. Thirty thousand in the stands and limited stars.

i knew somebody who had seasons on the visitors 45 13 rows up. Couldn’t give em away.

9 hours ago, CLTbills said:

I live in Charlotte. I can't believe how many people said to me yesterday morning, "Holy crap Bills fans are crazy. I can't believe how loud that place sounded on TV!"

 

Made me proud ??

They used to come to games late and if you stood up at panthers game they would get pissed.

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, Helpmenow said:

Shaw66, the 80’s were worse. Thirty thousand in the stands and limited stars.

i knew somebody who had seasons on the visitors 45 13 rows up. Couldn’t give em away.

 

Yeah, I was a Bills Fan from a distance in that era and it was easy to be disengaged.  No hope then, I guess.  I remember how energized I got when Bruce and Kelly and Biscuit showed up.  Wow!  Real players!  

[Helpmenow]

It was brutal, fans voted with their feet. Ralph got the message. Fans now party like crazy. I went for the game not what they do out there now

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Helpmenow said:

It was brutal, fans voted with their feet. Ralph got the message. Fans now party like crazy. I went for the game not what they do out there now

Did the fans leaving in the mid 80s cause Ralph to open his wallet?

[Helpmenow]

Sure did,  we sat near him on the visitors side. He had his window open. 

If Pegula didn’t fill the house he might make drastic changes.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

3/4ths of our secondary is Elite, and White is just a revelation.

 

Some people here don't realize that Tre is our best defensive player and a lockdown corner, and that's sad. I will stand by my statement that he is the second best CB in Bills history after Butch Byrd. He proves his worth every game.

[Helpmenow]

Just now, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Some people here don't realize that Tre is our best defensive player and a lockdown corner, and that's sad. I will stand by my statement that he is the second best CB in Bills history after Butch Byrd. He proves his worth every game.

No that would Robert James 

Robert James was the best cornerback with the Bills. 

[Buddo]

There were some signs of life in the Offense, well, the passing part of it, anyway. The D played its guts out, and the Pats had to work for everything they got, except the pick 6.

 

The trouble is, offensively, the Vikings game aside, there's been no sense that the Bills could put drives together consistently. They probably did just enough in terms of getting a couple of first downs here and there, to keep the D fresh enough to keep competing, but you pretty much expected it to fizzle out at any time.

 

I'd like to see them stick both Shady and Ivory out there regularly, with one of them splitting out wide often. I believe that could keep a defender out of the box, and give either of them more chance to make a play. As a DC, I wouldn't want either of them getting the football in space, as Shady will make the first defender miss, and Ivory will probably just run over them. As our TEs are not exactly great outlets, it could serve a purpose as a useful dump off, as well.

 

Having said that, we still have a poor O-Line, which ultimately got Anderson killed. While I want Allen back, I think with our line, we're a bit in between the devil and the deep blue sea, with the possibility of our QB getting crocked at any time, and it's a major concern.

 

As to the future, well, I'm very much in 'wait and see' mode. I have full confidence in McDermott in respect of putting out a good D, but the jury is definitely out as regards offense.

 

I dislike binning McCarron for a scruffy 5th round pick, not so much because McCarron would have saved the season (I'm sure he wouldn't), but because when they did, they didn't get someone else in to back up Peterman, and keep Allen out of it. Contingency planning was non-existent, when it should have been a priority.

 

I'm also not too struck on their QB evaluation skills, that ended up with Peterman as the starter. Not because Peterman didn't win the TC competition, as he clearly did, but that they didn't seem worried at all about the fact that he hadn't started but one game, and that was a disaster.

 

Chan Gailey always emphasized the fact that true NFL games were a whole different kettle of fish to pre-season or TC. It's the reason he cut Edwards after two miserable outings as starter.  At the time I thought it was pretty brutal, yet it was also absolutely the right decision. Thing is, we had 3 QBs on the roster, so had the freedom to do it. How does the expression go?  - 'Don't paint yourself into a corner', yet the FO did just that by not getting another QB in.

 

We desperately need to find ways of moving the chains with more regularity, while also keeping whichever poor soul who ends up under center, upright. If it's Allen, I hope the word is to keep anyone off of him at all cost, including penalties.

 

Excuse some of the ramblings, but thanks for a good post as usual Shaw, and fwiw, the fans souded incredible throughout, even watching it on the box.

 

 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Helpmenow said:

No that would Robert James 

Robert James was the best cornerback with the Bills. 

 

So....

 

Robert James had 9 INTs in his career, which was 6 years long.

 

Butch Byrd had 7 INTs in ONE SEASON on his way to 40 career INTs... in 8 years in his Second All-AFL Team career.

 

Tre'Davious White only has 5 more INTs to match Robert James over the next 3 1/2 years...

 

Nope.

Edited November 1, 2018 by EasternOHBillsFan

[stuvian]

the defense really played with passion. I could see fear in Tom Brady's eyes for the first ever against us. We shut down Gronk for the better part of the game. GRONK!

 

Trotting out a veteran QB on one week's notice is a fools errand. We should have had a true vet like Anderson in camp in July. If we had done these games wouldn't be lost causes.

Instead we trot our Peterson so that Beane can "recoup value" on his late round pick. Unfortunately I can't "recoup value" on my season tickets with these guaranteed loss games. If Beane loves Peterson so much he could have stashed him on the practice squad where he belongs.

 

We could have had the likes of Anderson or Matt Bradley both mentoring Allen and being ready to take over in case of injury. These games could have meant something. With our D and Shady and average QB play we are back in the wild card. 

 

Didn't the locker room revolt over the prospect of trotting out Peterman recently? Yet here we are again wasting what is probably Kyle and Shady's last years with the team. 

 

I'm perfectly willing to suffer through Allen's growth but we shouldn't have to throw the season away to do it. Sometimes these vets have a resurgence like Case Keenum, Fitz and Rich Gannon but to do so they have to be in camp long enough to gel with the team and learn the playbook. Instead we're making desperation moves at the 11th hour which everyone knows won't work. 

[Helpmenow]

9 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

So....

 

Robert James had 9 INTs in his career, which was 6 years long.

 

Butch Byrd had 7 INTs in ONE SEASON on his way to 40 career INTs... in 8 years in his Second All-AFL Team career.

 

Tre'Davious White only has 5 more INTs to match Robert James over the next 3 1/2 years...

 

Nope.

Look up his all pro stats not his interception. Then tell me .

Nobody threw at him, how can he get interceptions. His was the best. DId you see him play?

[CodeMonkey]

Very well written.  I'm still not sure how much of the Pats not scoring was the Bills D versus the Pats apathy.  Having watched Brady [far too] many times over the years, you get used to how he acts.  Historically when the Pats O is as lackluster, under-performing, and ineffective as they were on Monday, you see Brady pissed off.  Slamming his helmet down on the bench, getting in peoples faces on the sidelines, and generally being a huge dick (no ***** pun intended  ).  I saw absolutely none of that on Monday ... zero.  Just going through the motions understanding there was no doubt they were going to win.  The only real emotion I saw from Brady was after the pick 6.  I think the Bills D held up their end of the bargain Monday to say the least, as they have the majority of the season so far.  But I'm not willing to say the Bills D was the entire or even the main reason for the Pats offensive lack of production.

[Shaw66]

23 hours ago, Buddo said:

There were some signs of life in the Offense, well, the passing part of it, anyway. The D played its guts out, and the Pats had to work for everything they got, except the pick 6.

 

The trouble is, offensively, the Vikings game aside, there's been no sense that the Bills could put drives together consistently. They probably did just enough in terms of getting a couple of first downs here and there, to keep the D fresh enough to keep competing, but you pretty much expected it to fizzle out at any time.

 

I'd like to see them stick both Shady and Ivory out there regularly, with one of them splitting out wide often. I believe that could keep a defender out of the box, and give either of them more chance to make a play. As a DC, I wouldn't want either of them getting the football in space, as Shady will make the first defender miss, and Ivory will probably just run over them. As our TEs are not exactly great outlets, it could serve a purpose as a useful dump off, as well.

 

Having said that, we still have a poor O-Line, which ultimately got Anderson killed. While I want Allen back, I think with our line, we're a bit in between the devil and the deep blue sea, with the possibility of our QB getting crocked at any time, and it's a major concern.

 

As to the future, well, I'm very much in 'wait and see' mode. I have full confidence in McDermott in respect of putting out a good D, but the jury is definitely out as regards offense.

 

I dislike binning McCarron for a scruffy 5th round pick, not so much because McCarron would have saved the season (I'm sure he wouldn't), but because when they did, they didn't get someone else in to back up Peterman, and keep Allen out of it. Contingency planning was non-existent, when it should have been a priority.

 

I'm also not too struck on their QB evaluation skills, that ended up with Peterman as the starter. Not because Peterman didn't win the TC competition, as he clearly did, but that they didn't seem worried at all about the fact that he hadn't started but one game, and that was a disaster.

 

Chan Gailey always emphasized the fact that true NFL games were a whole different kettle of fish to pre-season or TC. It's the reason he cut Edwards after two miserable outings as starter.  At the time I thought it was pretty brutal, yet it was also absolutely the right decision. Thing is, we had 3 QBs on the roster, so had the freedom to do it. How does the expression go?  - 'Don't paint yourself into a corner', yet the FO did just that by not getting another QB in.

 

We desperately need to find ways of moving the chains with more regularity, while also keeping whichever poor soul who ends up under center, upright. If it's Allen, I hope the word is to keep anyone off of him at all cost, including penalties.

 

Excuse some of the ramblings, but thanks for a good post as usual Shaw, and fwiw, the fans souded incredible throughout, even watching it on the box.

 

 

Buddo -

 

This isn't so much a criticism of you as it is just how I feel about all this discussion of the QB situation.

 

I am a fan for the games.   Although I engage in discussions about whom to draft and what free agents to sign, whether the coach ought to be fired or not, I find I don't care so much about that.   I'm disinclined to talk about what McBeane should have done, might have done, could have done, that would have put the Bills in a better situation this week.   I just care about the games.  

 

The Pegulas can decide if a coach or a GM is doing the job they want or not, and they can fire people if they want, but I  don't see much point in talking about any of this stuff during the season.   For me, it's all about the games, what happened on the field last week and what might happen on the field next week.  

 

I find I have trouble getting engaged in recent conversations about the QB situation, because those decisions have been made, and we have what we have.   

 

I think it's pretty clear that the Bills were going to invest in a rookie QB.   It became clear as the Bills dealt Taylor and then pretty much declined to participate in the free agent QB musical chairs this spring, opting instead to take the guy who was left over.   That was a clear signal that the Bills were going to invest in a rookie.   Once that became clear, I think there was no reason to expect the Bills to get a seriously good journeyman QB as a backup.   That guy wasn't going to come to the Bills knowing that there was no realistic starting opportunity in Buffalo.   In fact, if McCarron was disappointed that he wasn't the presumptive starter, I think that means McCarron wasn't paying attention.   The handwriting was on the wall. 

 

The fact is that most teams have only one good quarterback, and the Bills have their one.  Virtually everyone on this board recognizes that the only chance the Bills offense has to be even below average (instead of hopelessly below average) is Josh Allen.  To expect that the Bills would have a quality starter coming off the bench is delusional. 

 

Now, having said that, I agree with those who say it was foolhardy to go into the season with Josh and Nate and no one else.   Most everyone expected that it was a matter of weeks, or even days, before Allen took the job from Peterman, and that necessarily would leave the Bills with an inadequate backup.  I have no doubt that McBeane botched that.   They needed three QBs, and Peterman perhaps should have been on the practice squad. 

 

But I really don't care all that much about all of this.   Once Allen went down, we all knew the offense was in trouble, and there are very few, maybe no, things that could have been done to avoid this.  The Bills weren't going to pay significant backup money to a guy who could challenge for the starting job.  If that's what they wanted, they could have kept Taylor.  

 

So, on Sunday, I'm going to the game to watch my team play.  I don't expect them to win but I'm prepared to be surprised.  I watch my team because they're my team.  They don't stop being my team just because they might have done this or should have done that six months ago or two months ago.  

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Shaw, one more thing.

 

I'd be less worried about Edmunds being injury prone than Allen.

 

I'm not particularly worried about either, but Allen's injury is significantly more rare than Edmunds, and it involves the same ligament that, depending on severity of the injury and as a worst case scenario, could end a QB's career.

 

I don't think that's the case with Allen.  I think he was just hit very awkwardly by 2 separate defenders.

 

But there's a small part of me that's definitely thinking about the fact that he was a pitcher in High School and could throw a rocket of a fastball.

 

Has there been overuse damage?

 

Again, only a tiny fraction of me thinks that chance is there.  But it's a bigger concern for me right now--considering the number of weeks Allen has already missed and the fact that he isn't actually throwing yet--than Edmunds' concussion, from which he already seems to be progressing through the protocol.

[Shaw66]

50 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Shaw, one more thing.

 

I'd be less worried about Edmunds being injury prone than Allen.

 

I'm not particularly worried about either, but Allen's injury is significantly more rare than Edmunds, and it involves the same ligament that, depending on severity of the injury and as a worst case scenario, could end a QB's career.

 

I don't think that's the case with Allen.  I think he was just hit very awkwardly by 2 separate defenders.

 

But there's a small part of me that's definitely thinking about the fact that he was a pitcher in High School and could throw a rocket of a fastball.

 

Has there been overuse damage?

 

Again, only a tiny fraction of me thinks that chance is there.  But it's a bigger concern for me right now--considering the number of weeks Allen has already missed and the fact that he isn't actually throwing yet--than Edmunds' concussion, from which he already seems to be progressing through the protocol.

I didn't study this, didn't read much about it, but I understood from what I read that this is essentially a sprain - soft tissue injury that heals with time.  It's also rather unusual - I think it happened because he happened to get hit in just the right way to cause the injury.   

 

It's the tendon that pitchers injure that requires Tommy John surgery, but apparently that injury is peculiar to pitching motions.   

 

So I don't think there's any more long-term risk than something like a high ankle sprain.   

 

Still, any time your QB gets injured, you worry about recurrence. 

 

Has any QB had his career ended with this injury?