Sully: On Second Thought, the Buffalo Bills Really ARE That Bad

[thenorthremembers]

2 hours ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

 

“PFF named the Bills’ secondary the seventh-best unit in the entire league”

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2018/07/24/buffalo-bills-secondary-tredavious-white-jordan-poyer-micah-hyde-vontae-davis-ej-gaines/

 

“It’s no secret that the Buffalo Bills have one of the best secondaries in the NFL. Between starting cornerbacks Vontae Davis and Tre’Davious White, along with safeties Micah Hyde and Jordan Poyer, there aren’t many teams that can match the talent that Buffalo has in their defensive backfield.”

 

https://www.cover1.net/buffalo-bills-2018-nfl-micah-hyde-tredavious-white/

 

And also a softball article by Skurski that i’m sure was Pegula approved and lapped up by the fanboys;

 

“We asked the Bills' secondary: How did you get so good, so fast?”

 

https://buffalonews.com/2018/09/04/buffalo-bills-defensive-backs-hyde-poyer-davis-white/

 

lol

I get it, but most of this is before the season began.  It took about two seconds into the first game when they stopped being overrated.

[CuddyDark]

So you guys are finally coming around?

[HOUSE]

The season is not over. Could be some changes coming

[Roundybout]

24 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

So you guys are finally coming around?

 

Nah, some people know the meaning of the term "patience"

[CuddyDark]

2 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Nah, some people know the meaning of the term "patience"

You mean these games don't count?

[Roundybout]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

You mean these games don't count?

 

Of course they do, for the development of our core players like Allen and Edmunds. Next season is the payoff.

[CuddyDark]

Just now, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Of course they do, for the development of our core players like Allen and Edmunds. Next season is the payoff.

Sounds like 2005 all over again.

[Roundybout]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

Sounds like 2005 all over again.

 

Then lets just blow the cap on free agents and go all in for one year like 2015. Worked well.

[Livinginthepast]

Sully does make the scary comparison to the Hank Bullough days. I remember those days and they were embarrassingly bad!

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, twoandfourteen said:

 

What are these guys supposed to write? 

 

The Bills & Sabres have given them practically nothing to work with over the past two decades. 

 

There are only so many ways to write the same article -- but it's not Sully & Bucky's fault that the Bills & Sabres have been stuck in a perpetual, never-ending miasma of failure. 

 

Your valiant attempt is appreciated.  But many deaf ears here will refuse to hear the obvious.

 

Better to yell at the chronicler of bad times that at those who bring the bad times...

[CuddyDark]

4 minutes ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

Then lets just blow the cap on free agents and go all in for one year like 2015. Worked well.

At least 2015 had a direction. These guys seem lost for direction.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

At least 2015 had a direction. These guys seem lost for direction.

 

Did it really? That's revisionist history at its finest.

 

2015 was the "HEY LETS JUST PAY PEOPLE A WHOLE SHITLOAD OF MONEY WHO DON'T DESERVE IT AND LET THEM BE COACHED BY REX" year.

 

Some direction, that.

 

[CuddyDark]

4 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

Did it really? That's revisionist history at its finest.

 

2015 was the "HEY LETS JUST PAY PEOPLE A WHOLE SHITLOAD OF MONEY WHO DON'T DESERVE IT AND LET THEM BE COACHED BY REX" year.

 

Some direction, that.

 

No one hated Rex more than me, but at least that is a direction. What are they this year? They signed equally bad players who don't deserve it. They went wit two young QBs meaning those signings in free agency were stupid because you're not winning with a rookie. Then they draft long term draft picks who are not ready to play. The team is a mess. They have several over the hill players who have to win now but they draft projects. It's like two directions. It's like they have a fight between coaching and front office. It's like the Browns the last 6 years. You can't win if you're going in two directions like we are.

Edited September 17, 2018 by CuddyDark

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

No one hated Rex more than me, but at least that is a direction. What are they this year? They signed equally bad players who don't deserve it. They went wit two young QBs meaning those signings in free agency were stupid because you're not winning with a rookie. Then they draft long term draft picks who are not ready to play. The team is a mess. They have several over the hill players who have to win now but they draft projects. It's like two directions. It's like they have a fight between coaching and front office. It's like the Browns the last 6 years. You can't win if you're going in two directions like we are.

 

They have a direction. You just don't understand it. That's the bottom line. The people they signed with the exception of Star are all going to be pretty easy to get out from under, and next year I expect them to pick up more impactful FA while continuing their solid drafting.

 

[CuddyDark]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

They have a direction. You just don't understand it. That's the bottom line. The people they signed with the exception of Star are all going to be pretty easy to get out from under, and next year I expect them to pick up more impactful FA while continuing their solid drafting.

 

Because you have hope. I don't believe in hope. They will do it or they won't. So far they haven't made any good moves with Beane as GM.

 

Here's my question. Are any of Beane's rookies as good a Tre White? Are any of Beane's signings as good as Poyer/Hyde?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

Because you have hope. I don't believe in hope. They will do it or they won't. So far they haven't made any good moves with Beane as GM.

 

Here's my question. Are any of Beane's rookies as good a Tre White? Are any of Beane's signings as good as Poyer/Hyde?

Don't tell me you're being so dense as to credit those signings to Whaley. I genuinely like you, don't want to have to add you to the purge.

 

As to his rookies...I like Edmunds. Yes, he had a rough week. But he's EXTREMELY young, and thrown into the fire. Last week, he made some big plays. I also like Harry. And I liked what I saw from Allen given the complete lack of help.

 

[CuddyDark]

Just now, joesixpack said:

Don't tell me you're being so dense as to credit those signings to Whaley. I genuinely like you, don't want to have to add you to the purge.

 

As to his rookies...I like Edmunds. Yes, he had a rough week. But he's EXTREMELY young, and thrown into the fire. Last week, he made some big plays. I also like Harry. And I liked what I saw from Allen given the complete lack of help.

 

There is a history of castoff players coming in under Whaley who became good players, some even pro bowl players. Graham, Alexander, Zach Brown. What player have they signed since Whaley left who came in and had an impact? Who? There isn't one signed or traded player under Beane who is worthy of pro bowl type play. Not one.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

There is a history of castoff players coming in under Whaley who became good players, some even pro bowl players. Graham, Alexander, Zach Brown. What player have they signed since Whaley left who came in and had an impact? Who? There isn't one signed or traded player under Beane who is worthy of pro bowl type play. Not one.

The two safeties. Those were NOT Whaley acquisitions. Period. And for all his supposed greatness in pro-personnel, Whaley was AWFUL at drafting college talent. Shaq Lawson, three picks for watkins when your QBs were Manuel and Taylor being the most salient failures.

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by joesixpack

[CuddyDark]

15 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

The two safeties. Those were NOT Whaley acquisitions. Period. And for all his supposed greatness in pro-personnel, Whaley was AWFUL at drafting college talent. Shaq Lawson, three picks for watkins when your QBs were Manuel and Taylor being the most salient failures.

 

 

 

But you're deflecting.

 

Since Beane became GM who have we signed as good as Poyer, Hyde? Who is as good as Corey Graham? Whaley has a history of making corners play safety with the Bills. Who's as good as Zach Brown? Or Lorenzo Alexzander? Did Beane make any trade as good as Shady? Or Jerry Hughes? Answer the question about Beane and stop deflecting.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

But you're deflecting.

 

Since Beane became GM who have we signed as good as Poyer, Hyde? Who is as good as Corey Graham? Whaley has a history of making corners play safety with the Bills. Who's as good as Zach Brown? Or Lorenzo Alexzander? Did Beane make any trade as good as Shady? Or Jerry Hughes? Answer the question about Beane and stop deflecting.

 

No, I'm really not. I'm trying to understand what you expected beane to do in the burn year?

 

That's what this is. The burn year. He wasn't gonna go out there and sign a bunch of big name guys. Look, I'll grant you that whaley was a good dumpster-diver. But that's ALL he did well. His drafts were abortion status, his inability to work with Marrone was legendary. His cap management, well that was kinda like the Hindenburg.

 

He's had ONE offseason. And that one offseason is the burn year, again.

 

 

[CuddyDark]

Just now, joesixpack said:

 

No, I'm really not. I'm trying to understand what you expected beane to do in the burn year?

 

That's what this is. The burn year. He wasn't gonna go out there and sign a bunch of big name guys. Look, I'll grant you that whaley was a good dumpster-diver. But that's ALL he did well. His drafts were abortion status, his inability to work with Marrone was legendary. His cap management, well that was kinda like the Hindenburg.

 

He's had ONE offseason. And that one offseason is the burn year, again.

 

 

If it's the burn year why sign Davis and Star and Murphy? All overpaid BTW.

 

Whaley also has a history of taking corners and making them play Safety. Aaron Williams, Duke Williams, Corey Graham.

[Don Beebe]

2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

Sully does make the scary comparison to the Hank Bullough days. I remember those days and they were embarrassingly bad!

I remember those days too. I don't think we are that bad yet. This team can pull itself together and win some games. Thanks for posting. It's good to know there is still some of the old timers around.

[row_33]

12 minutes ago, Don Beebe said:

I remember those days too. I don't think we are that bad yet. This team can pull itself together and win some games. Thanks for posting. It's good to know there is still some of the old timers around.

 

the game has changed a lot since then, and the 2018 Bills are just as far behind the best teams as they were for the Bullough era

 

 

[Don Beebe]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

the game has changed a lot since then, and the 2018 Bills are just as far behind the best teams as they were for the Bullough era

 

 

I am more optimistic than you. The Bullough era was really bad. I am going to give this team the rest of the year before I put them in that class. But I admit this start is pretty bad.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Don Beebe said:

I am more optimistic than you. The Bullough era was really bad. I am going to give this team the rest of the year before I put them in that class. But I admit this start is pretty bad.

 

the best i can think of is the Bills get us a back door cover on that 16.5 spread in Minny

 

 

[Livinginthepast]

4 hours ago, Don Beebe said:

I remember those days too. I don't think we are that bad yet. This team can pull itself together and win some games. Thanks for posting. It's good to know there is still some of the old timers around.

 Strangely I can remember the game that got Bullough finally fired in 1986 at Tampa. I had to look it up to confirm on Wikipedia, but my memory of that season and that particular game was that Kelly was the shining star on a really bad team. I can remember him at his gunslinging best, fighting right to the end when the Bills fell just slightly short. For whatever reason,  maybe because it was such a tough loss, Ralph had had enough and fired Bullough. Then the next week, Marv Levy started his era with the Bills, mid season!!  Here is an epic YouTube video of that horrendous season!!

 

[Lurker]

21 hours ago, Rico said:

Fair and honest

 

Isn't that supposed to be fair and balanced...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, joesixpack said:

Did it really? That's revisionist history at its finest.

2015 was the "HEY LETS JUST PAY PEOPLE A WHOLE SHITLOAD OF MONEY WHO DON'T DESERVE IT AND LET THEM BE COACHED BY REX" year.

Some direction, that.

 

That's pretty revisionist yourself, Joe. 

 

2014 was the year our D was #4 in the league. 

 

2015 was let's bring in talent to improve the offense to top-third and we'll be in the playoffs. 

They tried to find a QB taking 3 shots - bring in a FA vet who had had some success, a dark-horse 2nd tier FA, and a 3rd year former 1st round pick.  They brought in a  OC who went to the Superbowl and 2 conf. championships after reclaiming a former 1st round bust (Smith) and a "meh" 2nd round pick.  They followed his recipe of having a run-heavy offense and a dual-threat QB.  4 of our 6 draft picks contributed that year.

 

In case you don't recall, it worked as far as the offensive face lift went - the offense was top 10 or close on points and if the defense had held up its end, playoffs were plausible.

 

It failed because Rex proved incompetent at maintaining the play quality on D and to have overall checked-out on head coaching, and after that the whole thing collapsed in a morass of D-centered rebuilding.

 

For those who like TBD Trivia, 20 September 2015 was the day I converted from "Hopeful" to "Hapless Bills Fan".  We played the Pats and just looked like buffoons in all 3 game phases. 

 

People were asking me after last season when I would convert back and I'm like, "Imma wait some and see, Thanks"

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's pretty revisionist, Joe. 

 

2014 was the year our D was #4 in the league. 

 

2015 was let's bring in talent to improve the offense to top-third and we'll be in the playoffs. 

They tried to find a QB taking 3 shots - bring in a FA vet who had had some success, a dark-horse 2nd tier FA, and a 3rd year former 1st round pick.  They brought in a  OC who went to the Superbowl and 2 conf. championships after reclaiming a former 1st round bust (Smith) and a "meh" 2nd round pick.  They followed his recipe of having a run-heavy offense and a dual-threat QB.  4 of our 6 draft picks contributed that year.

 

In case you don't recall, it worked as far as the offensive face lift went - the offense was top 10 or close on points and if the defense had held up its end, playoffs were plausible.

 

It failed because Rex proved incompetent at maintaining the play quality on D and to have overall checked-out on head coaching, and after that the whole thing collapsed in a morass of D-centered rebuilding.

 

It also failed because their three choices for WB were pretty much junk.

 

edit: and even with their plan could you plausibly argue they were building a super bowl champion?

Edited September 17, 2018 by joesixpack

[Don Beebe]

24 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

 Strangely I can remember the game that got Bullough finally fired in 1986 at Tampa. I had to look it up to confirm on Wikipedia, but my memory of that season and that particular game was that Kelly was the shining star on a really bad team. I can remember him at his gunslinging best, fighting right to the end when the Bills fell just slightly short. For whatever reason,  maybe because it was such a tough loss, Ralph had had enough and fired Bullough. Then the next week, Marv Levy started his era with the Bills, mid season!!  Here is an epic YouTube video of that horrendous season!!

 

Thanks for a really great post. Boy did that bring back memories. I remember those games but watching those highlights brought everything back. It was great. Those clips should be required watching for the Bills team and all Bills fans this week.