Kelly the Dog Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, Lurker said: The new rule say the moment you start to go to the ground--either feet or head first--you're giving yourself up. And the ball is spotted at the first place to touch, not where it is extended to.... Even out of bounds or at the goal line? I doubt it but you may be right. I would think that OB or at endzone would not be considered giving yourself up, only in the playing field, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Even out of bounds or at the goal line? I doubt it but you may be right. I would think that OB or at endzone would not be considered giving yourself up, only in the playing field, but who knows. It's going to be interesting to see how QB sneaks are handled. I think they'll be called the old way but guys running in the open field will be covered by the new interpretation. The NFL has opend another quagmire with the rule, but that's they way they roll anymore... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: It's going to be interesting to see how QB sneaks are handled. I think they'll be called the old way but guys running in the open field will be covered by the new interpretation. The NFL has opend another quagmire with the rule, but that's they way they roll anymore... It did look, however, that the officials marked the Allen play where they thought he went OB and not where he started his dive, they may have just misjudged it. I doubt under a challenge they would have moved it back and said he gave himself up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: It did look, however, that the officials marked the Allen play where they thought he went OB and not where he started his dive, they may have just misjudged it. I doubt under a challenge they would have moved it back and said he gave himself up. He started to dive at the 41 yard line and his leg appeared to hit at the 43. Even though he extended the ball past the first down marker before his torso hit the ground, the ball was spotted at the 43, one yard short of the marker. I think it was the correct call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lurker said: He started to dive at the 41 yard line and his leg appeared to hit at the 43. Even though he extended the ball past the first down marker before his torso hit the ground, the ball was spotted at the 43, one yard short of the marker. I think it was the correct call... That may be true. I haven't watched it since. And I believe you. However, as I recall his extended arm was OB before it landed and they were marking the ball where they thought the ball went OB as opposed to where he "gave himself up" or where his leg hit. And under challenge they MAY have ruled the ball was still in bounds as he hit the marker. Maybe not. That's just how I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Lurker said: He started to dive at the 41 yard line and his leg appeared to hit at the 43. Even though he extended the ball past the first down marker before his torso hit the ground, the ball was spotted at the 43, one yard short of the marker. I think it was the correct call... Lurker, you have a strange sense of reality man. I think you argue just for the sake of arguing. At no point did Josh Allen give him self up ( you seem to struggle grasping the new rule). And the ball was clearly past the marker by the time he hit out of bounds. End of story, should have been challenged. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 3 hours ago, cba fan said: There is no evidence Allen gave himself up on that dive. He dove forward, and when his knee touched at that exact same time he had the ball outstretched and at the first down line to gain. Stills showed this. It was a first down and the replay of the play showed that. No one even asked him in the post game presser or the game after presser. Bunch of weak ass media. wrong. At the exact moment his knee touched Allen had the ball already extended to the sticks. He had the ball extended before his knee hit. If that was the case why did McD challenge the obvious no fumble by the Bear player last night.?? Take off your Bill's colored glasses and watch it then. Was he forward as you say maybe, but there's no way you or anyone who watches it objectively can tell for certain when the knee touched watching the replay. IMO his knee touched while he was extending the ball, but was before the ball was fully extended and at that moment still was short of the sticks when the knee touched. Was it a first down, who knows, but the fact that we're arguing about it and others also commented that it wasn't so clear cut while others say it was , indicates it would have been highly unlikely it ever would have been over turned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Take off your Bill's colored glasses and watch it then. Was he forward as you say maybe, but there's no way you or anyone who watches it objectively can tell for certain when the knee touched watching the replay. IMO his knee touched while he was extending the ball, but was before the ball was fully extended and at that moment still was short of the sticks when the knee touched. Was it a first down, who knows, but the fact that we're arguing about it and others also commented that it wasn't so clear cut while others say it was , indicates it would have been highly unlikely it ever would have been over turned. I think the more important question was, because it was SO close, and preseason, and would have been a huge reward for his young QB to get that first down and continue the drive, should McD have challenged, and I think that is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: I think the more important question was, because it was SO close, and preseason, and would have been a huge reward for his young QB to get that first down and continue the drive, should McD have challenged, and I think that is a no brainer. And I can accept that argument of challenging for that reason. I doubt it would have ever been over turned but if you're doing it strictly as a confidence builder then OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Just now, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: And I can accept that argument of challenging for that reason. I doubt it would have ever been over turned but if you're doing it strictly as a confidence builder then OK. That's immediately what I thought when it happened live. You have to challenge because of the effort and possible reward. In pre-season it's a no brainer. Especially so early. In the regular season it's not so easy a call but if it looked as close as it seemed to me I probably would have risked it. And I'm not one to like wasted TOs at all, they drive me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnycage46 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 The only point that I would try to make is that it is a little odd that he didn't challenge the Allen run but DID challenge the obvious non-fumble in game 4 last night. I don't put much stock in preseason in general, but I found it somewhat interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Take off your Bill's colored glasses and watch it then. Was he forward as you say maybe, but there's no way you or anyone who watches it objectively can tell for certain when the knee touched watching the replay. IMO his knee touched while he was extending the ball, but was before the ball was fully extended and at that moment still was short of the sticks when the knee touched. Was it a first down, who knows, but the fact that we're arguing about it and others also commented that it wasn't so clear cut while others say it was , indicates it would have been highly unlikely it ever would have been over turned. I watched the replay over and over. The point of officials judgement would be was his knee down just as it contacted the highest strands of fake grass or when hit hits into lands in it. It is literally that close. If you go by just grazing the top of the grass, it appears he is just short of the first down. If it is when his knee hits down, he has the ball at the first down line. PS: I would have a lot more confidence in McD's so far worthless red flag skills if he challenged this kind of call and lost then the way he challenges clear fumble like in Bears game and lost. Edited August 31, 2018 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobills1212 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/30/2018 at 4:27 PM, Estelle Getty said: It's a little late but the Josh Allen scramble play against Cincy that would have almost surely been a first down (if not atleast moved up nearly a full yard). And instead of challenging the play they rush their punt team on as if they were the ones afraid of a Cincy challenge. That could have been the momentum shift the Bills and Allen needed to gain some confidence and turn the game around. Between that and the punt in the Colts game they definitely are cause for concern regarding Mcdermotts in game decision making. Uuhhhhh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 On 8/30/2018 at 4:27 PM, Estelle Getty said: It's a little late but the Josh Allen scramble play against Cincy that would have almost surely been a first down (if not atleast moved up nearly a full yard). And instead of challenging the play they rush their punt team on as if they were the ones afraid of a Cincy challenge. That could have been the momentum shift the Bills and Allen needed to gain some confidence and turn the game around. Between that and the punt in the Colts game they definitely are cause for concern regarding Mcdermotts in game decision making. I know right? 18 years.... oh wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 51 minutes ago, cba fan said: I watched the replay over and over. The point of officials judgement would be was his knee down just as it contacted the highest strands of fake grass or when hit hits into lands in it. It is literally that close. If you go by just grazing the top of the grass, it appears he is just short of the first down. If it is when his knee hits down, he has the ball at the first down line. PS: I would have a lot more confidence in McD's so far worthless red flag skills if he challenged this kind of call and lost then the way he challenges clear fumble like in Bears game and lost. So you just said yourself, It's literally that close. It has to be conclusive to overturn. So if it's literally that close, how can you expect them to over turn? If you want to argue as Kelly said to build confidence fine, but likely he would have lost the challenge as was way to close to overturn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Can we all stop crucifying the best coach we have had in years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 19 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: So you just said yourself, It's literally that close. It has to be conclusive to overturn. So if it's literally that close, how can you expect them to over turn? If you want to argue as Kelly said to build confidence fine, but likely he would have lost the challenge as was way to close to overturn. yeah I concede you make the point. I keep seeing the knee hit hard and he has ball at the line then but yeah too close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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