3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 43 minutes ago, The_Dude said: Ok....but just so we’re clear I’m pretty sure given a squad size element I could bring the Air Force to surrender. Maybe a platoon sized element....but I think I could do it with a squad. And one pilot could turn your platoon into dust. You're trying to compare apples to oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: Right. They are really good at droning people, and giving us a lift to and from theater. Other than that, Army and Marines were the major players... I'm not sure how much the concept of air supremacy is understood. The reason the Army and Marines were able to do what they did to support you was because of air supremacy. No superiority.......Supremacy. We have enjoyed that in each engagement since Vietnam. It is what allowed ground support from the services mentioned. I've never been a big fan of the Air Force, but they have sterilized the skies above our ground folks, and that is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 39 minutes ago, sherpa said: I'm not sure how much the concept of air supremacy is understood. The reason the Army and Marines were able to do what they did to support you was because of air supremacy. No superiority.......Supremacy. We have enjoyed that in each engagement since Vietnam. It is what allowed ground support from the services mentioned. I've never been a big fan of the Air Force, but they have sterilized the skies above our ground folks, and that is a good thing. Isis and the Taliban dont have an air force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: And one pilot could turn your platoon into dust. You're trying to compare apples to oranges. It's sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, The_Dude said: It's sarcasm. No it's bravado coming from the rivalry between services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I'm not sure how much the concept of air supremacy is understood. The reason the Army and Marines were able to do what they did to support you was because of air supremacy. No superiority.......Supremacy. We have enjoyed that in each engagement since Vietnam. It is what allowed ground support from the services mentioned. I've never been a big fan of the Air Force, but they have sterilized the skies above our ground folks, and that is a good thing. It's been 20 years - at least, maybe 30 - since US forces faced any sort of identifiable air threat in a combat theater. Claims that the USAF is useless because "ISIS and the Taliban don't have air forces" are fallacious - they're arguments for preparing to fight the last war, not the next one. But it's almost as fallacious to credit them with success in an air superiority task they haven't had to perform. Plus...is everyone forgetting about AMC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, 3rdnlng said: No it's bravado coming from the rivalry between services. Oh no, I have no issue with other branches. I love the Marines and think all branches should emphasize you're a rifleman first. It's "POGs" (people other than grunts) I'm not big on. There's a lot of reasons for that. If you were never in you wouldn't understand. But here's a bite sized reason...when I was a young private I kicked in more doors across Iraq than can be counted. I played point man for my squad the entire 16 month deployment. I made the same amount of money as one of our mechanics who was the same rank as me because he got 'combat pay' too even though his life was never in danger. People who pick jobs that take them out of the fight are people who don't want to fight, and I've no respect for service members who don't want to fight. Now, there's also exceptions. I think our commo guy my first deployment was just as combat hardened as the rest of us because our commander really enjoyed being shot at and our commo guy was his driver...so you cant judge all POGs the same, but they didn't join to throw down and I'm always aware of that. The Air Force is an entire branch of dudes not wanting to throw down. But should we get into another real armed conflict I'm sure the Air Force will perform to standard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, The_Dude said: People who pick jobs that take them out of the fight are people who don't want to fight, and I've no respect for service members who don't want to fight. The Army has started letting recruits pick their MOS, instead of telling them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: The Army has started letting recruits pick their MOS, instead of telling them? It has been since I joined in 2002. The way they do it is your ASVAB scores qualify you and then they present you with the jobs they're hiring for and you pick. I was going in as infantry. But apparently they needed Cav Scouts the day I showed up so they showed me a Cav Scout video with dirt bikes and dune buggies (I aint never once rode a dune buggy or dirt bike though) and the video ended with "19 Delta" and I asked the man if that was "Delta Force" (it is NOT Delta Force) and the man at the MEPS smiled and nodded north-south and I signed my forms and told mom that army selected me to their most badass unit, lol. I was 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: Isis and the Taliban dont have an air force Iraq did, briefly. Aside from that, air supremacy involves much more than shooting down airplanes. It involves having the capability to detect threats to ground forces that are not always obvious. It's a complicated issue, but all of our military enjoys a tremendous advantage because of our unmatched air superiorit...y. It there was any doubt, note the order of battle the US has used since Vietnam. First two days......air defense command and control eliminated. Same game plan over and over, and it has always worked. No mission is more enjoyable or rewarding that close air support of the ground folks, but you have to own the sky to do it successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, The_Dude said: It has been since I joined in 2002. The way they do it is your ASVAB scores qualify you and then they present you with the jobs they're hiring for and you pick. I was going in as infantry. But apparently they needed Cav Scouts the day I showed up so they showed me a Cav Scout video with dirt bikes and dune buggies (I aint never once rode a dune buggy or dirt bike though) and the video ended with "19 Delta" and I asked the man if that was "Delta Force" (it is NOT Delta Force) and the man at the MEPS smiled and nodded north-south and I signed my forms and told mom that army selected me to their most badass unit, lol. I was 17. You were kind of an idiot then, weren't you? But then, you were 17, which is pretty synonymous. As far as I know, the service recruiters pretend to give you a choice. Then the service does what it wants with you. I recall when I was finishing grad school, an AF recruiter told me I'd be commissioned as a Captain on joining and be a senior controller on an AWACS. I just laughed at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, DC Tom said: You were kind of an idiot then, weren't you? But then, you were 17, which is pretty synonymous. As far as I know, the service recruiters pretend to give you a choice. Then the service does what it wants with you. I recall when I was finishing grad school, an AF recruiter told me I'd be commissioned as a Captain on joining and be a senior controller on an AWACS. I just laughed at him. I actually got out of the Army as a recruiter. Recruiting rules change daily -- literally daily. The best I remember was this: Navy- You get a "field." So if you get into the medical field the Navy will decide after your basic if you're going to be a Devil Doc, or work in a pharmacy, ER, medical logistics, and so on. So you get to pick your "field" but it doesn't guarantee you anything. They do have SEAL contracts. Army- Already explained it Marines- If I remember correctly they don't pick. They do basic and then infantry school and then the Marines dictate their MOS. Air Force- You should feel lucky to be joining and that's how they treat you. I just laugh about my "Delta Force" story now. I did NOT know better. I was 17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, The_Dude said: Oh no, I have no issue with other branches. I love the Marines and think all branches should emphasize you're a rifleman first. It's "POGs" (people other than grunts) I'm not big on. There's a lot of reasons for that. If you were never in you wouldn't understand. But here's a bite sized reason...when I was a young private I kicked in more doors across Iraq than can be counted. I played point man for my squad the entire 16 month deployment. I made the same amount of money as one of our mechanics who was the same rank as me because he got 'combat pay' too even though his life was never in danger. People who pick jobs that take them out of the fight are people who don't want to fight, and I've no respect for service members who don't want to fight. Now, there's also exceptions. I think our commo guy my first deployment was just as combat hardened as the rest of us because our commander really enjoyed being shot at and our commo guy was his driver...so you cant judge all POGs the same, but they didn't join to throw down and I'm always aware of that. The Air Force is an entire branch of dudes not wanting to throw down. But should we get into another real armed conflict I'm sure the Air Force will perform to standard. You said it best bro good post! ? What unit did you deploy with? What years were you in Iraq? 4 hours ago, sherpa said: I'm not sure how much the concept of air supremacy is understood. The reason the Army and Marines were able to do what they did to support you was because of air supremacy. No superiority.......Supremacy. We have enjoyed that in each engagement since Vietnam. It is what allowed ground support from the services mentioned. I've never been a big fan of the Air Force, but they have sterilized the skies above our ground folks, and that is a good thing. It is important, yes but in Iraq and Afghanistan the majority of the fighting was door to door in an urban environment. Almost ALL close Close Air Support (CAS) comes from the Army and Marines 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: You said it best bro good post! ? What unit did you deploy with? What years were you in Iraq? First deployment was like invasion all the way to "OIF 2". I was out of Fort Polk, while 2nd ACR was still there from April 03 - July 04. That one was a real mother !@#$er. Good times, but that is too long to leave a unit out there like that IMO. When we got back 2nd ACR was disbanding and going to Ft. Lewis to become a Stryker brigade and I like a couple thousand others went to Ft. Campbell. At Campbell I was in 3rd Brigade, and our RSTA stood up as 1/33 Cav. I deployed with those wonderful jackwagons back to Iraq from 05-06. I ETS'd in '12, and never was deployed after 06. Probably because I went to USAREC. I thought that was a brilliant idea at the time but it is the most toxic, soul-sucking environment in which one can be. I'm talking the thing is run by guys who haven't qualified with a weapon in over a decade who want to tut-tut around as if they're Patton. Ridiculous ass-clownery there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, The_Dude said: First deployment was like invasion all the way to "OIF 2". I was out of Fort Polk, while 2nd ACR was still there from April 03 - July 04. That one was a real mother !@#$er. Good times, but that is too long to leave a unit out there like that IMO. When we got back 2nd ACR was disbanding and going to Ft. Lewis to become a Stryker brigade and I like a couple thousand others went to Ft. Campbell. At Campbell I was in 3rd Brigade, and our RSTA stood up as 1/33 Cav. I deployed with those wonderful jackwagons back to Iraq from 05-06. I ETS'd in '12, and never was deployed after 06. Probably because I went to USAREC. I thought that was a brilliant idea at the time but it is the most toxic, soul-sucking environment in which one can be. I'm talking the thing is run by guys who haven't qualified with a weapon in over a decade who want to tut-tut around as if they're Patton. Ridiculous ass-clownery there. Ok so you were there when I was there. I was in OIF3 with A Troop TF 2/11ACR. We were just south of Baghdad on MSR TAMPA January till August, then relieved 3/1 Marines at FOB HIT in the Anbar Province the rest of our tour. They couldn't pay me enough to be a recruiter, especially in the times we live in. You are a better man than me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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B-Man Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Over a million space rocks could strike Earth with more energy than a nuclear bomb, and we don’t know where most of them are. SOUNDS LIKE A JOB FOR THE NEW SPACE FORCE! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, B-Man said: Over a million space rocks could strike Earth with more energy than a nuclear bomb, and we don’t know where most of them are. SOUNDS LIKE A JOB FOR THE NEW SPACE FORCE! And 70% of them will hit the ocean and we won't notice or care. Something like 8 rocks that size hit the planet every year, and we don't notice or care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/20/2018 at 2:06 PM, The_Dude said: It has been since I joined in 2002. The way they do it is your ASVAB scores qualify you and then they present you with the jobs they're hiring for and you pick. I was going in as infantry. But apparently they needed Cav Scouts the day I showed up so they showed me a Cav Scout video with dirt bikes and dune buggies (I aint never once rode a dune buggy or dirt bike though) and the video ended with "19 Delta" and I asked the man if that was "Delta Force" (it is NOT Delta Force) and the man at the MEPS smiled and nodded north-south and I signed my forms and told mom that army selected me to their most badass unit, lol. I was 17. They did that as far back as when I joined. I scored top 1% on asvab, was on track for MI linguistic school, got stupid (arrested for underage drinking) and lost eligibility for top secret. Ended up on a howitzer crew and eventually in fire direction control. By the time I got out, the offered me an increase in grade, 20k and linguistics school to re-enlist. Turned THEM down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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