Major vs. Minor League Experience

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

So I love baseball. Grew up in Buffalo, and was a huge Bisons fan. Went to at least 10-15 games a season with my dad. Pilot Field/North Americare/Dunn Tire/ Coca Cola Field was like a second home to me. Took a few vacations to the beautiful Rochester, NY to take in some road games.  Even took the bus and went to games alone when I was old enough.

 

When I turned 20, I moved down here to Houston. The Astros sucked at the time so I could get a ticket for like $5 and sit where I wanted as long as the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rangers weren't in town. I was excited to have a Major League experience. While I love Minute Maid Park, and came around to the Astros, I was kind of disappointed. I have about the same amount of fun at Major League game than I did in the minors. Not sure what I was expecting. Maybe it's because I love the game so much, and I'm there purely for baseball, so all the other bells and whistles I don't care for. 

[plenzmd1]

15 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Maybe it's because I love the game so much, and I'm there purely for baseball, so all the other bells and whistles I don't care for. 

 

I like both the same..but i guess for an opposite reason. Until the playoffs, I have very little interest in the actual game on the field unless a no-hitter/great game/something special is happening. I go to have a few beers, walk around and chat and that's about it.

[May Day 10]

Minor league baseball.... mainly AAA is the lowest form of North American pro sports.  Bisons games are terrible.  Most of the top rated prospects go through full seasons of A and AA as opposed to much AAA. Guys there, you can tell are mostly going through the motions.  Competition is on the back burner.  Pitch counts are paramount and never deviated from.  If you have a team that goes to the "playoffs", September call-ups completely ravage your team and the lineup that plays in your "playoff" games does not have much in common with the lineup from the season.  

Going to a Bisons game now... baseball, I wouldnt even consider secondary.  Its like 3rd or 4th priority-wise there.  Its so secondary, they wont even tell you what the official scorer calls an error/hit (until its on the scoreboard and often changes once the scoreboard operator is informed later).  My dad keeps score and totals up at the end.  Every piece of baseball information is scrubbed from the scoreboard like .0005 seconds after the last out is recorded.  Nobody cares, and hardly anyone would attend without the daily "gimmick".

 

Back in War Memorial Stadium and earlier in Pilot Field's existence, it felt like much more of a baseball game.  I think the players cared more and we had many more "career minor leaguers" who had their place in AAA and would compete.  That is all gone now. 

 

MLB isnt even comparable at this point.  I would say A and AA is slightly better because players are really scrapping for survival.... but it isnt better by much.  They also change logos, uniforms, affiliations, and identities all the time.  Tradition has been thrown in the waste basket.  Everything has completely capitulated to their MLB overlords.

 

 

I think the erosion of minor league and community baseball is as much to blame for the suffering and cloudy future of MLB interest than the "speed of play" nonsense.  They have rooted decent baseball from small towns.  The NY Penn League used to be great until the ripped everything out for "communities" that really needed it, such as Brooklyn, Staten Island, Lowell, Norwich, CT, and State College.

Edited June 12, 2018 by May Day 10

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

40 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Minor league baseball.... mainly AAA is the lowest form of North American pro sports.  Bisons games are terrible.  Most of the top rated prospects go through full seasons of A and AA as opposed to much AAA. Guys there, you can tell are mostly going through the motions.  Competition is on the back burner.  Pitch counts are paramount and never deviated from.  If you have a team that goes to the "playoffs", September call-ups completely ravage your team and the lineup that plays in your "playoff" games does not have much in common with the lineup from the season.  

Going to a Bisons game now... baseball, I wouldnt even consider secondary.  Its like 3rd or 4th priority-wise there.  Its so secondary, they wont even tell you what the official scorer calls an error/hit (until its on the scoreboard and often changes once the scoreboard operator is informed later).  My dad keeps score and totals up at the end.  Every piece of baseball information is scrubbed from the scoreboard like .0005 seconds after the last out is recorded.  Nobody cares, and hardly anyone would attend without the daily "gimmick".

 

Back in War Memorial Stadium and earlier in Pilot Field's existence, it felt like much more of a baseball game.  I think the players cared more and we had many more "career minor leaguers" who had their place in AAA and would compete.  That is all gone now. 

 

MLB isnt even comparable at this point.  I would say A and AA is slightly better because players are really scrapping for survival.... but it isnt better by much.  They also change logos, uniforms, affiliations, and identities all the time.  Tradition has been thrown in the waste basket.  Everything has completely capitulated to their MLB overlords.

 

 

I think the erosion of minor league and community baseball is as much to blame for the suffering and cloudy future of MLB interest than the "speed of play" nonsense.  They have rooted decent baseball from small towns.  The NY Penn League used to be great until the ripped everything out for "communities" that really needed it, such as Brooklyn, Staten Island, Lowell, Norwich, CT, and State College.

I was really upset when the lost the Indians affiliation. Aside from the fact that I was an Indians fan at the time, they used their AAA team, so we actually had some decent talent come through. The Mets were a wannabe Yankees, and tried to build through FA, so we were dealt a **** team. I moved a year or so after that, so have only been to a handful of games under the Blue Jays. I hate the idea that jerseys now change to be replicas of the farm club. Other than the late 70s and early 80s, the Bisons have a history that goes back 100+ years with their own unique identity. But it's the Blue Jays version of the Bills Toronto series to expand their market.

[Fadingpain]

It depends on your mindset.  Minor league baseball is fantastic and preferable to major league baseball, if you have a fairly decent stadium and you can get tickets easily and cheaply.

 

Especially if your major league alternative is living in a town where you can't even get tickets without spending a fortune.

 

If you are into the purity of the game, I think AAA would actually offer a better all around experience.

 

If you follow the major leagues exclusively and care about the stars, etc., minor league can be a little disappointing.

 

But I was always impressed with the quality of play at the AAA level.  It's not that bad.

 

Contrast this with NHL hockey vs. American league hockey.  AHL hockey is a giant step down from the NHL and played in slow motion.  I could never enjoy the Amerks games I went to when I lived in Rochester for a year.

 

Huge drop-off from NHL to AHL.

 

Not as apparent with MLB to AAA ball.

 

 

[May Day 10]

to me, the difference between MLB and AAA is night and day.  Just the range and fluidity of the infielders is noticeable to the naked eye.  The pitching is also pretty obvious of an upgrade, as is the general speed of everyone.

 

The AAA games themselves also mean zilch, and the players seem to act/play that way.  This aspect seems to have eroded over the past 10-15 years.  

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

It depends on your mindset.  Minor league baseball is fantastic and preferable to major league baseball, if you have a fairly decent stadium and you can get tickets easily and cheaply.

 

Especially if your major league alternative is living in a town where you can't even get tickets without spending a fortune.

 

If you are into the purity of the game, I think AAA would actually offer a better all around experience.

 

If you follow the major leagues exclusively and care about the stars, etc., minor league can be a little disappointing.

 

But I was always impressed with the quality of play at the AAA level.  It's not that bad.

 

Contrast this with NHL hockey vs. American league hockey.  AHL hockey is a giant step down from the NHL and played in slow motion.  I could never enjoy the Amerks games I went to when I lived in Rochester for a year.

 

Huge drop-off from NHL to AHL.

 

Not as apparent with MLB to AAA ball.

 

 

Weird. I used to go to AHL games when Houston had a team when I first moved down here, and didn't notice much of a difference. Granted I started getting into it during the lockout, so I didn't have anything else to compare it to at the time. Lol. Although going to minor league games in the south is a weird experience. Because its like a mini convention of fans of all teams, because its such a niche sport. So most people usually just wore gear of whatever NHL team they rooted for. 

[May Day 10]

Its fantasy, but I think baseball would be saved if they somehow were able to scrap the entire minor league system (and the format of the draft).  Make all teams independently owned and operated... and created a whole promotion/relegation system.  MLB clubs with a lot of money could still own the rights to players, but loan or rent them to minor league clubs.  It would take an entire framework of rules and collective bargaining, but it could be awesome. 

 

It would really place 'meaningful' and competitive baseball at all corners of the country (and Canada)... and you can probably work out teams in Latin American nations as they can field local talent at a lower level (and maybe work their way up a bit?).  

 

Imagine the Riches put some money into the Bisons and they were near the top of the International League, with a shot/chance at getting promoted to MLB.  That would be intense and a huge draw.  

 

 

I think USA baseball also needs to create a development program for youth.... much like USA hockey (and all other major hockey playing nations do).  Little League is very disorganized and crappy.  Instruction is poor and the way events are organized at a young age.... a kid may swing a bat a couple times and throw a ball once over the course of a 1.5 hour "game" where they dont keep score and everyone just tries to get through it.  Hockey is almost 90% skills based at the youngest ages.  Its much more fun and inclusive.  Kids will stick with hockey.  At baseball, I look at the fields for older kids and there isnt much participation.  All the bored 5-8 year olds move on to play soccer, hockey, or lacrosse.

[May Day 10]

16 minutes ago, The Real Buffalo Joe said:

Weird. I used to go to AHL games when Houston had a team when I first moved down here, and didn't notice much of a difference. Granted I started getting into it during the lockout, so I didn't have anything else to compare it to at the time. Lol. Although going to minor league games in the south is a weird experience. Because its like a mini convention of fans of all teams, because its such a niche sport. So most people usually just wore gear of whatever NHL team they rooted for. 

 

The AHL has also suffered, much like AAA baseball, but not quite as badly.  AHL is really the only minor league game in town (not including young CHL players and unsigned NCAA and European players).  So its an exclusive minor league.  They also do not have September call-ups and have a full and meaningful playoff and trophy.

 

However, the league has suffered from capitulating completely with the NHL.  Before, up until maybe the mid 90s, teams were much more autonomous.  We also had the IHL.  You would see a lot of 'washed up' NHL players pepper IHL and AHL rosters which was great.  Teams were rooted in tradition.  Now, roster spots are the utmost importance. Everything is an investment.  These teams are uprooted and moved, normally a handful every offseason.  Its actually comical.  

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

4 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

The AHL has also suffered, much like AAA baseball, but not quite as badly.  AHL is really the only minor league game in town (not including young CHL players and unsigned NCAA and European players).  So its an exclusive minor league.  They also do not have September call-ups and have a full and meaningful playoff and trophy.

 

However, the league has suffered from capitulating completely with the NHL.  Before, up until maybe the mid 90s, teams were much more autonomous.  We also had the IHL.  You would see a lot of 'washed up' NHL players pepper IHL and AHL rosters which was great.  Teams were rooted in tradition.  Now, roster spots are the utmost importance. Everything is an investment.  These teams are uprooted and moved, normally a handful every offseason.  Its actually comical.  

I was getting ready to buy Aeros Season Tickets, the year they left for Iowa of all places.

[row_33]

Jays started in 1977 when I was 11 and entered a decade of excellence in 1983 ending with 2 WS in 92 and 93, so my high school and under/post-grad studies were in the midst of every pitch counting for all 162 and some years the playoffs

 

nothing will compare that way again, i've been to probably 1500 games in Toronto and attended at 31 or so baseball stadiums for MLB games (many stadiums shut down and replaced since my visit)

 

my minor league watching has been a summer in Little Rock watching the Cards AA Travelers a dozen games, for which Ricky Ankiel was a feature that summer.

he was quickly sent up to AAA after a handful of games in AA

 

[Rob's House]

I have to care who wins to really enjoy baseball and with minor league ball I really can't get into it. It's like watching preseason football. 

[Augie]

A college buddy just booked his flight to come down here in a couple weeks. Braves are in town with a super cool entertainment area surrounding the stadium. He LOVES baseball. He was all-state in HS a billion years ago. I think 5 innings is plenty. (Like 12 holes is usually plenty of golf.) We just may have to Uber Home separately. I do like it on as background noise, but it’s hardly compelling, to me. 

[KD in CA]

I brought the kids to a local minor league game a couple weeks ago;  about 300 people in the crowd.  A couple buddies where there with their kids so enjoyed a beer, watched a little of the game and had no problem leaving when the kids got restless by the sixth inning.  Total cost = $60 and home in less than 20 minutes.

 

Compare that to the all day odyssey and half a mortgage payment to take them to AT&T in the city for a Giants game and there is no comparison.  Yes, it's fun to go to the big league game, but it's really not worth the cost and hassle, at least for a regular season game.

[Augie]

I think a lot depends on the venues. Sarasota, FL has a nice little minor league stadium they renovated a few years ago. Easy in, easy out, a very pleasant experience. We would go to the Trop in St Pete to watch the Rays....maybe the worst venue in MLB. Worse experience in every way except you’d see better players. I’m more into he experience than the caliber of play.

 

Even in the same town with the same team, I skipped Braves games in Atlanta for years at Turner field. The stadium was OK, but the area around it was not. Moved to a safer area with a great walkable development full of entertainment options and I’ll hit a handful of games this year. I read their revenue was up 47% in the first year in the new stadium. THAT is a HUGE difference.  

 

 

[Gugny]

When I was a kid, we had the White Sox AA team in Glens Falls.  It's a big part of why I love baseball.  Any major league-affiliated league (A, AA, AAA) is going to provide decent baseball.  If you love the game, you'll see the talent and appreciate it.

 

One of my goals in life is to visit every MLB park.  I've been to about 1/3, so far.  Nothing compares to Citi Field and I'm not just saying that because I'm a Mets fan (in fact, I hate those mother !@#$ers right now).

 

A baseball-savvy crowd also makes the difference.  A couple years ago I went to a D-backs home game.  Talk about boring.  Phoenix is not a baseball town.  Fans were disengaged.  The atmosphere sucked.

 

A lot goes into a live baseball experience.  Fans, surroundings, music, announcing.

 

I wish we could get another minor league team, but the field/facilities have gone to ****.  We have, basically, a JUCO league.  I've been to a few games.  Decent baseball, but no crowd, no excitement.

 

If the setting is right, there's nothing like a day at the ballpark.  My son and I will be headed to Citi Field in early August and we can't wait.

 

Camden Yards is next on my list.

 

[Fadingpain]

Camden Yards is a really nice ball park.  I've seen a ton of games there and always enjoyed it.

 

I got to see Wrigley Field last year.  I think Wrigley has to be the best MLB experience there is, including Fenway.  And I'm a Red Sox fan.

 

The area all around Wrigley is totally cool and it is like going back in time to WWI days.  Just a huge fan of Wrigley.

 

 

[Gugny]

6 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Camden Yards is a really nice ball park.  I've seen a ton of games there and always enjoyed it.

 

I got to see Wrigley Field last year.  I think Wrigley has to be the best MLB experience there is, including Fenway.  And I'm a Red Sox fan.

 

The area all around Wrigley is totally cool and it is like going back in time to WWI days.  Just a huge fan of Wrigley.

 

 

 

I went to Wrigley six or seven years ago.  After the initial feeling of awe wore off, I quickly realized that it's kind of a dump.  The baseball atmosphere was incredible, though.  I went to Fenway many, many years ago.  Early teens.  I don't remember a lot about it.  I'm supposed to be going to a Mets/Sox game, there, in September.  I hope it works out.

[Philly McButterpants]

Here in Reading, the AA Fightin' Phils are a collection of nobodies (or at best, soon to maybe be somebodies), so the organization tries really hard to make the whole experience delightful.  I was at a Dodgers game in LA over Memorial day weekend.  Yawn.  In MLB, the game is the attraction. And if it's a lousy game . . . . 

The Minor leagues try harder at keeping you entertained, the game is secondary.  

 

Related:  I haven't been to a Bison's game in 10-15 years.  Any locals have a report on how is the stadium holding up?  

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, Philly McButterpants said:

Here in Reading, the AA Fightin' Phils are a collection of nobodies (or at best, soon to maybe be somebodies), so the organization tries really hard to make the whole experience delightful.  I was at a Dodgers game in LA over Memorial day weekend.  Yawn.  In MLB, the game is the attraction. And if it's a lousy game . . . . 

The Minor leagues try harder at keeping you entertained, the game is secondary.  

 

Related:  I haven't been to a Bison's game in 10-15 years.  Any locals have a report on how is the stadium holding up?  

 

The stadium shows its age a bit.  Lots of 'rust' and a bit of degradation.  They did replace a good amount of the "premium" red seats with new green seats a couple years ago.

 

Its not bad though.  Concourses are good.  They have good food options and a stand for craft brews.  The "bleachers" has turned full into a bar-type area.  

When there is a large crowd, like for Star Wars Night.... it is very uncomfortable.  

 

I believe it is the oldest ballpark in the International League now?