Why the Allen project may be different

[transplantbillsfan]

I think the "story" is what most intrigues me. Any team knows the kid has size and smarts, both of which are exceptional. 

 

But the fact is "project QBs" to the degree Allen is drafted high like him simply don't become Franchise QBs. However, his story is what's starting to make me think he's the exception to the rule.

 

The kid himself is driven and is going to have a chip on his shoulder for the rest of his life, most likely.

 

 

 

And I think this video is worth a watch.  It's an interview from before last season... kinda long:

 

Some interesting notes, particularly about why he may be so raw and playing at Wyoming:

 

- 3 sport athlete in HS

 

- Could throw a 92 mph fastball in baseball as a Senior.

 

-was just 5'10" and 150 lbs as a sophomore

 

-was 6'0" and 180 lbs as a junior

 

-was 6'2" and 185 lbs as a senior

[billspro]

57 minutes ago, ngbills said:

You can call it untapped talent.

You can call it more unknowns.

You can call it higher ceiling.

You can call it high risk.

 

Saying because he has never been "elite" so never received proper coaching, extensive looks, high competition etc is an abnormality not a positive. Sometimes there is a reason a guy plays at the top HS, then goes to all the elite camps, then is recruited as the #1 player in the nation etc. Because they have obvious talent. A guy like Allen can either not have the obvious talent, have some flaws that scare people off or who knows what. But it generally should not be viewed as a positive. That is just convincing yourself. 

 

 

Or he just comes from a really small town.

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I think the "story" is what most intrigues me. Any team knows the kid has size and smarts, both of which are exceptional. 

 

But the fact is "project QBs" to the degree Allen is drafted high like him simply don't become Franchise QBs. However, his story is what's starting to make me think he's the exception to the rule.

 

The kid himself is driven and is going to have a chip on his shoulder for the rest of his life, most likely.

 

 

 

And I think this video is worth a watch.  It's an interview from before last season... kinda long:

 

Some interesting notes, particularly about why he may be so raw and playing at Wyoming:

 

- 3 sport athlete in HS

 

- Could throw a 92 mph fastball in baseball as a Senior.

 

-was just 5'10" and 150 lbs as a sophomore

 

-was 6'0" and 180 lbs as a junior

 

-was 6'2" and 185 lbs as a senior

 

I love late bloomers, they often tend to be the elite players that are steals in the draft

[SoTier]

"The Allen project" is only different because of your wishful thinking, OP.  You may believe that since the Bills drafted him in the top ten, he MUST be better than the previous two failed project QBs the Bills wasted first round picks on, but I'll wait until he starts playing for real.  Big, strong armed collegiate QBs who are supposedly smart are a dime a dozen.  Competent NFL startng QBs are much scarcer.

Edited May 3, 2018 by SoTier

[kota]

Comparing this kid to any other QB is just dumb.  He isn't EJ, he isn't Farve, he isn't Carson Wentz.  He is JOsh Allen.  The only person that will make him successful is him.  

 

Give the kid the benefit of the doubt.  He has fought for every inch he has gotten so far.  I seriously doubt he is done.

[The Jokeman]

23 hours ago, billspro said:

He made a huge jump working with Palmer this offseason. If he has a similar jump in training camp and year 1 we are going to have a very special franchise QB. 

 

He he also has our DNA. This team will have an identity this year. We are going to maximize our skill with hard work and when the other team takes a play off we will capitalize. This team is going to be very hard to beat at home. 

Applying new footwork etc. is easy to do in a controlled environment like a practice yet once the he hits the field will his muscle memory kick in and he play like we've seen or will he take to the coaching Palmer gave him and apply it on the field but not sacrifice over thinking it when he's playing and prevent him from making the play. Many players have tried but again some feel it's not something that can be taught. As the old adage says time will tell. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by The Jokeman

[billspro]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Applying new footwork etc. is easy to do in a controlled environment like a practice yet once the he hits the field will his muscle memory kick in and he play like we've seen or will he take to the coaching Palmer gave him and apply it on the field but not sacrifice over thinking it when he's playing and prevent him from making the play. Many players have trade but again some feel it's not something that can be taught. As the old adage says time will tell. 

 

Hea really only had 2 years of training. I think he will develop most of his habits the next couple years.

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, billspro said:

 

Hea really only had 2 years of training. I think he will develop most of his habits the next couple years.

We can only hope. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, billspro said:

I love late bloomers, they often tend to be the elite players that are steals in the draft

 

We can all only hope this will be the case

[Shaw66]

On 5/2/2018 at 2:10 PM, Batman1876 said:

Many fans, myself included were fearful of the Bills drafting a project QB. We've all see these projects fail more often than not and trap the franchise in the "maybe next year they'll put it together" cycle. But as we know the Bills picked the project and it leads to the question, Why take the risk? As I see it there are two possible answers to that question. The first is that Bills leadership let their Ego get in the way of good decision making, they believed that they are special ans can succeed where everyone else has failed. Its a pessimistic view and seemingly the most popular opinion. But there is another option, that they saw something different about this project. What they saw that was different, size, smarts and story. 

 

Size- This is the one we've heard the most about, hes tall, sturdy, fast and has a big arm.  It's easy to lump him in with others who fit that description but to do so misses out on how big his arm is.  His release is as fast as Aaron Rodgers and his throw velocity is the fastest ever recorded.  Its not simply that he has a big arm its that he has the biggest arm.  Its reasonable to assume that elite physical talent will help in development. 

 

Smarts- Again this one is talked about regularly.  Allen did well on the wonderlic and maintained a solid GPA. Those who have worked with him say he is a smart kid who picks stuff up fast and his whiteboard work at the combine was reportedly very good.  This should aid his development as he is asked to do more in the NFL and as he learns to better diagnose and respond to what the defense is doing. 

 

Story- this one is talked about least and may play a big role in the divide regarding Allen. Before looking at his story lets look at the most common path to the draft that the 95% of QBs take. Early on they attend increasingly more prestigious QB camps, they transfer to go to an Elite High school and focus only on football and then are recruited to an elite program. in other words by the time most project QBs get to the NFL they have already had the best coaching available for 10-12 years. All that coaching has tapped their potential quite a bit. The result of this is projects who develop very little, because the 12 years of coaching they've already had has left little room for growth.  Allen on the other hand did not attend elite QB camps, went to a D5 high school where he was a multi sport athlete, went to a JUCO and then a football program about as elite as the UB Bulls. In other words Allen hasn't had his talent tapped into by good coaching before.  He is a well of untapped potential. Far from the kids who grow very little when they hit the NFL Allen should grow quite a bit. I think this untapped potential is what GMs were seeing that the internet scouts weren't. 

 

So in the end he's still a project, he's still a risk. However when you look at the total situation there is more room for hope than there is with most project QBs. He has talent worth tapping into and for the first time he'll be getting the elite coaching to help him do just that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're exactly correct.  Exactly.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

It’s also weird that people question Allen’s coaching when his college coaches were Wentz’.

that's funny 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/06/josh-allens-college-coach-heaps-praise-on-him/

 

Bohl previously coached Carson Wentz at North Dakota State, and he said Allen has the same competitive streak. Bohl noted that Allen had an injured throwing shoulder but still led Wyoming to a 37-14 win over Central Michigan in the Potato Bowl.

Edited May 3, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Skins Malone]

7 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Everything I have read indicates that Rosen is pretty tough.  His problem is that he lacks pocket awareness and escapability when pressure comes.  He takes a lot of hits and incurs injuries.  He also has a prickly personality, though I am unsure if that is really an issue.

Yes i didnt mean soft as in hes not tough.  More injury prone.

[Ralonzo]

11 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Where do we go from here... 

 

 

Theme song for a lot of ppl on the forum

Edited May 4, 2018 by Ralonzo

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/2/2018 at 9:27 AM, Thurman#1 said:

IMO most of that is justification, particularly the physical part. Every project guy has things to recommend him. Otherwise he wouldn't be picked.

 

To me, the thing that makes me a bit hopeful is that one of his biggest negatives, accuracy problems, has already been improved with a focus on his mechanics. Again, we have no way of knowing this will stick, but especially if he isn't asked to play this year, he'll have a ton of time to groove the improvements in his habit patterns. That gives me some hope, that he's already well along the path of development.

 

The other thing that gives me hope is that they do seem to see that giving him a year off or more should be their first and best option. If he's somehow way ahead of schedule, they seem like they might play him. I hope that doesn't happen. It's pretty much universal that he needs time. And a lot of project guys who get picked early don't get that time and it hurts them. The Bills seem willing to wait, and I think that improves his chances.

 

I'd rather they'd picked Rosen. But I have some hope. I'm not convinced, and I think those who are are drinking Kool-Aid. But hopeful? Yeah.

 

If he's somehow way ahead of schedule, why would he need time?

On 5/2/2018 at 11:31 AM, Fadingpain said:

Could be September 2018.

 

I think the organization is open to him beating out AJ for the starting job, if he actually does that this summer.

 

 

I think so, too.

[transplantbillsfan]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:37 AM, Fadingpain said:

No first round QB drafted since 1998 that had started less than 30 games at the collegiate level and completed less than 60% of their passes has been successful in the NFL.

 

Allen started 27 games and has a career completion percentage of 56.2%.

 

His stats and the data suggest he'll be something like a Ryan Leaf type.

 

 

 

These types of analytics were my reason for loathing the idea of drafting Allen before we drafted him. This very "he's destined to fail because look at all these other failures who had similar collegiate careers" is the very reason I chucked my phone across the room the moment I heard his name.

 

But I legitimately think his story, the path he traveled to get to that college career and ultimately get drafted, becomes the reason I've gotten largely behind this pick.

 

His story tells me he's just really, really different... maybe there will be different results with him...?