dave mcbride Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: He didn't, he has him ranked 16 overall so far and has him ranked behind Darnold and Jackson and marginally better than Mayfield. Actually, at 10:30 am, Rosen wasn't there on the list. He must have just added him. Darnold is going to go before Rosen. I've been saying it all along. He's the prospect out there. Edited January 29, 2018 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 34 minutes ago, Original Byrd Man said: No offence but I've seen too many 6'5" QB's who can throw 100 yards from their knees crash and burn in the NFL. Mayfield would be interesting but pass on Allen and Jackson. Right on. Camp Mayfield. 47 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: I'd take a shot on Allen, Mayfield, or Jackson if they fall to 21. Too many warts for them to go higher than that but that won't stop someone from reaching. I'd trade up for for Darnold. Not sure I trust Rosen enough to trade up for him. Right. I fear if we dont trade into the top 10 or 15 someones gonna nab Mayfield before us and then its between Rudolph and Jackson and neither of them look ready to start year one. I can easily see Mayfield win the starting job through otas tc and pre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: He didn't, he has him ranked 16 overall so far and has him ranked behind Darnold and Jackson and marginally better than Mayfield. Which is kind of absurd he's so low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 49 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said: He didn't, he has him ranked 16 overall so far and has him ranked behind Darnold and Jackson and marginally better than Mayfield. Wow, I didn't think any of the media draft guys would agree with me on Rosen. I'm honestly shocked to see Zierlein have him this low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykay Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, FearLess Price said: Right on. Camp Mayfield. Right. I fear if we dont trade into the top 10 or 15 someones gonna nab Mayfield before us and then its between Rudolph and Jackson and neither of them look ready to start year one. I can easily see Mayfield win the starting job through otas tc and pre season. Forget about Mayfield. He will be gone by pick 7. Imho, he is the best QB in the draft. However, it is difficult for GMs to pull the trigger on an under 6 ft QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I want Vita Vea to fall to us. I've seen plenty of mocks where he lands in Buffalo and I think that would be an extreme value pick. He is a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, billykay said: Forget about Mayfield. He will be gone by pick 7. Imho, he is the best QB in the draft. However, it is difficult for GMs to pull the trigger on an under 6 ft QB. He's not under 6' Senior bowl had him 6' and 3/8" (Although the combine will tell if this is true) He also drops his arm often enough when he throws that it could be a prob with balls being batted at the line. He also ran in a spread offense that gave him huge windows. He will need his OC to scheme properly. Having said all that, I love the guy and I wouldn't be upset if we trade up for him!! The guy is a freaking gamer, plays his butt off, and hates losing. He's got that fire you look for in a leader. I'd be okay with taking a chance on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: He's not under 6' Senior bowl had him 6' and 3/8" (Although the combine will tell if this is true) He also drops his arm often enough when he throws that it could be a prob with balls being batted at the line. ('Easily correctable) He also ran in a spread offense that gave him huge windows. (Not much different than the other prospects who primarily operated out of the gun. Darnold probably the only one that saw a lot of under center work) He will need his OC to scheme properly. (So will all of the prospects taken) Having said all that, I love the guy and I wouldn't be upset if we trade up for him!! The guy is a freaking gamer, plays his butt off, and hates losing. He's got that fire you look for in a leader. I'd be okay with taking a chance on him. 1 So if he interviewed well he'll probably go in the top 7 picks, which is most likely not a good look for the Bills unless we pay a severe price and be willing to take some major steps back before taking another one forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, NewEraBills said: So if he interviewed well he'll probably go in the top 7 picks, which is most likely not a good look for the Bills unless we pay a severe price and be willing to take some major steps back before taking another one forward. Agreed with you. I like the guy. I'm 100% okay with moving way up for darnold, Rosen, or Baker. I wouldn't be upset if Allen fell to us (he won't go that far) even if he is a boom or bust I wouldn't be upset with Jackson either at this point @21 (he won't be there either) although I'm scared of his small legs getting broken while scrambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Agreed with you. I like the guy. I'm 100% okay with moving way up for darnold, Rosen, or Baker. I wouldn't be upset if Allen fell to us (he won't go that far) even if he is a boom or bust I wouldn't be upset with Jackson either at this point @21 (he won't be there either) although I'm scared of his small legs getting broken while scrambling To me what makes the Bills situation unique is the comparison of the players outside of the top to Nathan Peterman. To me, the question that must be asked and answered without hesitation is, "Is this guy a better QB for us than Nathan Peterman?" From rds 1-3, maybe even 4, there can be no hesitancy in the comparison when answering this question. Otherwise, I don't see the need to take whoever is on the board. Now, of course, Jackson and Allen are superior athletes but are they better QB's? At 21/22 I must be sure. There has to be a strong Yes. Otherwise, the value just isn't there IMO. And if I take a QB there, I'm just taking one just to be taking one, which is bad business. Imagine it this way. If I'm not sure, and I take a guy at 21, I might as well have at least ranked Peterman in the same spot last year and if I didn't need a CB I should have taken him there last year. To me, it's about value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 He's up to the 20s and has Mayfield and McGlinchey at #21 and #22, both with the same rating. Incidently, James Daniels, center out of Iowa aloso has the same rating and is slotted at #23. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: To me what makes the Bills situation unique is the comparison of the players outside of the top to Nathan Peterman. To me, the question that must be asked and answered without hesitation is, "Is this guy a better QB for us than Nathan Peterman?" From rds 1-3, maybe even 4, there can be no hesitancy in the comparison when answering this question. Otherwise, I don't see the need to take whoever is on the board. Now, of course, Jackson and Allen are superior athletes but are they better QB's? At 21/22 I must be sure. There has to be a strong Yes. Otherwise, the value just isn't there IMO. And if I take a QB there, I'm just taking one just to be taking one, which is bad business. Imagine it this way. If I'm not sure, and I take a guy at 21, I might as well have at least ranked Peterman in the same spot last year and if I didn't need a CB I should have taken him there last year. To me, it's about value. I have no doubt in my mind Rosen, darnold, mayfield, Jackson, and even Allen will be better than Nate. I also have no doubt in my mind that darnold, Jackson, Allen should all sit for at least half, if not the whole year. Just because they aren't ready day 1 doesn't mean they are not better prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, SouthNYfan said: I have no doubt in my mind Rosen, darnold, mayfield, Jackson, and even Allen will be better than Nate. I also have no doubt in my mind that darnold, Jackson, Allen should all sit for at least half, if not the whole year. Just because they aren't ready day 1 doesn't mean they are not better prospects. Hear me out. My initial response was NOT in relation to Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. It was in relation to Jackson, Allen, Rudolph, Falk, White. I'd have to compare them to what I already have in Nathan Peterman. Certainly, Jackson and Allen are better athletes. But are they better QB's? Given their struggles with completion percentage, struggles reading the entire field, mechanical issues, that's where they do not help me say yes over Peterman. Their untapped potential, of course, that is a YES over Peterman. The other three I say yes over Peterman in EVERYTHING. These two I say yes over Peterman as athletes, arm strength, but they have not shown me anything great in terms of reading the field and processing information, accuracy, mechanics, pocket awareness, and presence. They cause me to hesitate too much so I would not take either of them at 21. That's not saying I wouldn't take them at some point, but not at 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, NewEraBills said: Hear me out. My initial response was NOT in relation to Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield. It was in relation to Jackson, Allen, Rudolph, Falk, White. I'd have to compare them to what I already have in Nathan Peterman. Certainly, Jackson and Allen are better athletes. But are they better QB's? Given their struggles with completion percentage, struggles reading the entire field, mechanical issues, that's where they do not help me say yes over Peterman. Their untapped potential, of course, that is a YES over Peterman. The other three I say yes over Peterman in EVERYTHING. These two I say yes over Peterman as athletes, arm strength, but they have not shown me anything great in terms of reading the field and processing information, accuracy, mechanics, pocket awareness, and presence. They cause me to hesitate too much so I would not take either of them at 21. That's not saying I wouldn't take them at some point, but not at 21. I feel you. I don't agree completely but your side has merit. Rudolph, Falk, white are all projects, same as Nate, only they don't have a year of backup learning. So yeah, I wouldn't take them at 21/22 I'd roll Jackson or Allen there in a heartbeat I'd take darnold, Rosen, Mayfield higher if I could 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said: I feel you. I don't agree completely but your side has merit. Rudolph, Falk, white are all projects, same as Nate, only they don't have a year of backup learning. So yeah, I wouldn't take them at 21/22 I'd roll Jackson or Allen there in a heartbeat I'd take darnold, Rosen, Mayfield higher if I could No argument concerning Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield here. But the other two are where I'd have to answer some serious questions. Actually, as passers, I think Rudolph and Falk are well ahead of Allen and Jackson and it's not even close. I'm talking about a few things here: 1) Mechanics 2) Pocket Awareness 3) Reading the field 4) Accuracy and completion percentage. 5) Anticipation and throwing guys open 6) Creation of Scoring chances Granted Rudolph and Falk also have questions to answer. Are they mere system QB's. I think you have to get them on the board ask them to talk about their offense, then show them NFL concepts and see if they easily understand or do they struggle to understand. If they can easily translate then they are not mere system guys but guys with high general football IQ which is what you want. IF they cannot translate/struggle to understand then scratch them off the board. Rudolph has a better frame/build than Falk, so Falk would need to deal with that issue. People question both regarding arm strength. I think for Falk you have to ask whether the wrist played into that. Go back and look at the tape and see if his throws from 15 an 16 had more velocity than 17. So as you can see, even though I think Falk and Rudolph are better passers at this point than Jackson and Allen, even they have questions that must be answered. In any case we'll see how things start to shape up in the next month. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, NewEraBills said: No argument concerning Darnold, Rosen, or Mayfield here. But the other two are where I'd have to answer some serious questions. Actually, as passers, I think Rudolph and Falk are well ahead of Allen and Jackson and it's not even close. I'm talking about a few things here: 1) Mechanics 2) Pocket Awareness 3) Reading the field 4) Accuracy and completion percentage. 5) Anticipation and throwing guys open 6) Creation of Scoring chances Granted Rudolph and Falk also have questions to answer. Are they mere system QB's. I think you have to get them on the board ask them to talk about their offense, then show them NFL concepts and see if they easily understand or do they struggle to understand. If they can easily translate then they are not mere system guys but guys with high general football IQ which is what you want. IF they cannot translate/struggle to understand then scratch them off the board. Rudolph has a better frame/build than Falk, so Falk would need to deal with that issue. People question both regarding arm strength. I think for Falk you have to ask whether the wrist played into that. Go back and look at the tape and see if his throws from 15 an 16 had more velocity than 17. So as you can see, even though I think Falk and Rudolph are better passers at this point than Jackson and Allen, even they have questions that must be answered. In any case we'll see how things start to shape up in the next month. Good post I'm with you You can try to teach mechanics and stuff, can't teach physical attributes, so that's why Allen and Jackson have a high ceiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: Good post I'm with you You can try to teach mechanics and stuff, can't teach physical attributes, so that's why Allen and Jackson have a high ceiling Exactly. Mayfield has that winnjng spirit, the fighters fire. That cant be taught. 7 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: I have no doubt in my mind Rosen, darnold, mayfield, Jackson, and even Allen will be better than Nate. I also have no doubt in my mind that darnold, Jackson, Allen should all sit for at least half, if not the whole year. Just because they aren't ready day 1 doesn't mean they are not better prospects. I agree with this and I fully understood your NP comparison vs taking any QB after the top 3. I also add that drafting Allen is like a Cardale Jones rehash too. Weve taken a QB with uncer center experience and field reading IQ in NP. Weve taken a QB with freak physical abilities in Cardale Jones. Neither have worked for us so let's invest in the QB position and trade up for one of the top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 He has Jackson graded higher than Mayfield. Am I missing something here? I haven't seen that anywhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 hours ago, NewEraBills said: To me what makes the Bills situation unique is the comparison of the players outside of the top to Nathan Peterman. To me, the question that must be asked and answered without hesitation is, "Is this guy a better QB for us than Nathan Peterman?" From rds 1-3, maybe even 4, there can be no hesitancy in the comparison when answering this question. Otherwise, I don't see the need to take whoever is on the board. Now, of course, Jackson and Allen are superior athletes but are they better QB's? At 21/22 I must be sure. There has to be a strong Yes. Otherwise, the value just isn't there IMO. And if I take a QB there, I'm just taking one just to be taking one, which is bad business. Imagine it this way. If I'm not sure, and I take a guy at 21, I might as well have at least ranked Peterman in the same spot last year and if I didn't need a CB I should have taken him there last year. To me, it's about value. There are probably 10 Quarterbacks in this class easily better prospects than Nate Peterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 hours ago, FearLess Price said: Exactly. Mayfield has that winnjng spirit, the fighters fire. That cant be taught. I agree with this and I fully understood your NP comparison vs taking any QB after the top 3. I also add that drafting Allen is like a Cardale Jones rehash too. Weve taken a QB with uncer center experience and field reading IQ in NP. Weve taken a QB with freak physical abilities in Cardale Jones. Neither have worked for us so let's invest in the QB position and trade up for one of the top 3. Allen is definitely much further along than Jones, Cardale wasn't a first round projection. I do see what you are getting at though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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