Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: John, you say, "Once again ... it's not that Gilmore didn't deserve his contract ..." But here's what you actually said before: How is this not saying he didn't deserve his contract, John? Looks to me like you said exactly the opposite. And it didn't make sense. Now you're backing off, and that's fine, but it should be pretty clear why I felt I had to point out that Gilmore shows every sign of living up to every contract he's signed. And that if there's one thing the Pats are known for, it's pinching pennies and not overpaying for FAs. His production was matching his pay but the Bills were between a rock and a hard place in terms of the cap. Gilmore was on an island when he was here. Bad safeties and they schemed him man-to-man on their best. Gaines is in a much easier position and has better safeties backing him up. He's not as good. I like Gaines and am happy he's here, but Gilmore's better. Where are all the media folks and stats showing Gaines to be as good? And once again, I'm not arguing whether they spent money well or whether our secondary is better. I'd agree. The safeties are almost infinitely better than our recent guys there. I'm saying if Whaley hadn't screwed us with a bad cap situation we could have kept Gilmore and had him opposite Tre and been a good deal better. The Pats film review column has Belichick even walking up to him and giving him a big smile a few weeks ago. https://nesn.com/2017/12/patriots-bills-film-review-stephon-gilmore-is-really-good-edition/ In any case, when you look at people writing up the Bills draft needs, there's often CB on the list. Exactly. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills-team-needs-draft-picks-prospects-to-watch/ http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/21/2018-nfl-draft-buffalo-bills-top-5-draft-needs/ http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/11/what_are_the_buffalo_bills_biggest_needs_heading_into_2018.html http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Mock-Draft-Watch-10/a571a495-8d47-4fde-9703-03715b32c4ce https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/4/27/15447882/buffalo-bills-top-2017-nfl-draft-needs-cornerback-safety-receiver-tackle-linebacker Well despite your denial about Gilmore at least you understand Whaley was a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) It's not just the fans. The team suffers from constant buyer's remorse. They gave Mario the biggest contract in team history and reportedly loaded it with player-friendly add-ons that gave him the freedom to do ridiculous things like blast his own music from his locker, then immediately regretted doing that once it led to grumbling by other players. They spent a boatload of picks to get Sammy Watkins then started hating him for being too soft. They handed another monster contract to Dareus - despite his sketchy off-field history by that point - then immediately became disenchanted with him for repeating the same behavior he had always displayed. They spend high picks on positions they don't want to pay a premium for, like cornerback and running back. Heck they even do it with coaches - no one made Terry give Rex one of the biggest coach paydays in the league - and he almost immediately regretted doing it. By mid-season of Rex's first season (if not sooner), the knives were already out for him at OBD and deservedly so. I get that regime change is part of the story here, but it's not the whole story - it's a troubling lack of strategic planning and direction, as well as a lack of accountability for the people who make these decisions in the first place. And the fans go right along with this nonsense. We have hordes of mouth-breathing Joes who can't wait to chase the next well-paid and/or highly-drafted Bill off of the roster... Edited January 23, 2018 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: It's not just the fans. The team suffers from constant buyer's remorse. They gave Mario the biggest contract in team history and reportedly loaded it with player-friendly add-ons that gave him the freedom to do ridiculous things like blast his own music from his locker, then immediately regretted doing that once it led to grumbling by other players. They spent a boatload of picks to get Sammy Watkins then started hating him for being too soft. They handed another monster contract to Dareus - despite his sketchy off-field history by that point - then immediately became disenchanted with him for repeating the same behavior he had always displayed. They spend high picks on positions they don't want to pay a premium for, like cornerback and running back. Heck they even do it with coaches - no one made Terry give Rex one of the biggest coach paydays in the league - and he almost immediately regretted doing it. By mid-season of Rex's first season (if not sooner), the knives were already out for him at OBD and deservedly so. I get that regime change is part of the story here, but it's not the whole story - it's a troubling lack of strategic planning and direction, as well as a lack of accountability for the people who make these decisions in the first place. And the fans go right along with this nonsense. We have hordes of mouth-breathing Joes who can't wait to chase the next well-paid and/or highly-drafted Bill off of the roster... By they you mean Whaley. That **** is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, joesixpack said: By they you mean Whaley. That **** is over. The drafting, perhaps. Whaley had very little to do with the contracts that were given out and he had almost nothing to do with the hiring of Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: The drafting, perhaps. Whaley had very little to do with the contracts that were given out and he had almost nothing to do with the hiring of Rex. Whaley had nothing to do with contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Whaley had nothing to do with contracts? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: Look, I know it's 2018 and facts don't matter to people like you, but Overdorf handled the contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: Look, I know it's 2018 and facts don't matter to people like you, but Overdorf handled the contracts. And who dictated that the contracts get done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, joesixpack said: And who dictated that the contracts get done? Are you really that unsophisticated that you think it's just a matter of contracts "getting done"? The size and structure of the contract, in itself and relative to the rest of the roster, makes all the difference in the world. Cap management was Overdorf's fiefdom, not Whaley's. Cap management is what I am talking about - the Bills allocate resources to certain players in a certain way and then immediately regret doing so. It has little to do with Doug Whaley. Edited January 23, 2018 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: Are you really that unsophisticated that you think it's just a matter of contracts "getting done"? The size and structure of the contract, in itself and relative to the rest of the roster, makes all the difference in the world. Cap management was Overdorf's fiefdom, not Whaley's. Let me break it down into really simple words for you and into numbered steps: 1) Whaley and Coach decide WE GOTTA HAVE DAREUS. 2) Overdorf crafts contract. Overdorf hands contract to Whaley for approval. 3) WHALEY APPROVES CONTRACT. 4) We all lose for it. Understand now? Edited January 23, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Let me break it down into really simple words for you and into numbered steps: 1) Whaley and Coach decide WE GOTTA HAVE DAREUS. 2) Overdorf crafts contract. Overdorf hands contract to Whaley for approval. 3) WHALEY APPROVES CONTRACT. 4) We all lose for it. Understand now? Oh I understand all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Just now, Coach Tuesday said: Oh I understand all right. I don't think you do. I think in your whaley-apologetic mind, you believe that he literally had nothing to do with contracts. Which is beyond absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Gilmore has always been good at breaking up passes. But he gets burned too easily and misses too many tackles. He's not worth what the Patriots paid him but when you have the GOAT QB on a discount you get the luxury of overpaying a few other players. Gilmore did not live up to that contract this year and I'm much happier with White than I ever was with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, joesixpack said: I don't think you do. I think in your whaley-apologetic mind, you believe that he literally had nothing to do with contracts. Which is beyond absurd. I understand you require simple solutions to complex problems. Find me a single post where I’ve defended Doug Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 gilmore is still tearing us apart!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, teef said: gilmore is still tearing us apart!!! you're assuming we were ever really together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Wow, dude. You've now found TWO plays where he got beat during his CAREER! Boy, you're killing me here. Obviously no other good CBs have ever been beaten like this two plays during their career. How will I ever come back against this masterpiece of logic? Boy, thanks for pointing out how I wasn't providing facts and then coming up with two whole plays in the last two years where he was bad. You're really inundating me with facts over here. Anyway, back to the point. That's twice I challenged you to come up with other bad Gilmore plays for the Jags game. Your silence has become deafening. None, hunh? Makes your argument show as pretty stupid. it's obvious what happened. Gilmore had an excellent game. But prove me wrong ... third time for me to ask ... where's your list of all the bad plays he made during that game? Your Gilmore-lovefest has now reached new heights of delusion. By the way, you trying to hem me in to a specific game on a general comment is pretty pathetic. I'm gonna let you get back to cross-stitching that pillow for your buddy Steph while I read things that actually interest me, not your weird obsessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I never understood the hatred for the guy. The guy is a quiet, do your job type of corner. Prefect for the Pats. Does anyone not see why the Pats paid for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 It’s funny - if Bortles puts 2 more feet on that ball, the Pats are golfing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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