OL doing pretty well, actually

[kirkwoodus13]

who was worst on Sunday against the PATS? Tolbert or Eric Wood?  Wood got beaten like a drum by Brown in the middle. We need to play Groy at center, move Wood to right guard with Dawkins at right , Glenn at left and Richie at left.

[Happy]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

Tyrod doesn't open holes for the RB, the OL does!

Well, yeah, the OLine has also struggled opening holes for the running game this year.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

14 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

They do agree about Saints Raiders Titans.  But you have to wonfer about the quality of ratings when the Bills are at the tip of one list and the bottom of another.  

 

It's all based on amateurs evaluating film.  That's a joke. 

 

Which is why football outsiders and pff can be safely ignored. Dvoa is a joke.

[SoTier]

18 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

So is this because TT runs arround like crazy, or is the OL actually, you know....good? 

 

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/946474844211818496

 

 

 

can't post the JPEG because it's too big...oh well

The Bills OL sucks in pass pro, and it hasn't been all that great in run blocking either despite the spin that the statboys at PFF try to put on it.  The Bills "good" stats stem from several factors including having a mobile QB as well as not playing that many teams with fierce pass rushes.  How'd that "good" OL do with a pocket passer under center against a team with a good pass rush?  Peterman didn't throw 5 INTs because he had all day to find receivers and just missed them.

 

Dawkins is NOT "great".  For a rookie LT, he's been decent but then so was Mike Williams, the OT the Bills drafted at #4 in 2002, who eventually turned out to be a bust.  He's got lots of room for improvement before he comes close to being even "nearly as good" as Cordy Glenn.  Many rookies who look good in their first year never improve much and sink to JAGs or worse as their careers progress.

[SoCal Deek]

The Bills line has been just OK this year.  In the running game there have been too many times when they were unable to move the line of scrimmage an inch. Shady just hits a big wall of people.  And in the passing game their performance is super hard to measure because TT refuses to throw to his first read.

 

The raging debate about whether  TT or Dennison should get the blame is probably an indication that it's BOTH.

[buffalobloodfloridahome]

I've hear multiple times that Tyrod is near the bottom of the league in time of drop back and release at around 3 seconds. Isn't that factor on why other teams can get pressure. The oline obviously has to hold their blocks longer and of course that would give other teams more time to create pressure.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This points out the problem with stats generated by people other than the pro football professionals.   Pretty obvious to me that your rating on this list is NOT a measure of offensive line play.   It's a measure of something that is related to having a mobile quarterback.  Taylor, Brees, Carr, Mariota are all on the top of this list.  

 

If this is PFF OL ratings, they're highly tenuous IMO

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Taylor in the game.......pass rush gets muted.

 

Peterman in the game.......pass rush teed off.

 

Taylor runs into his share of sacks as he tries to extend plays into big plays.........but most weeks he changes the gameplan of defensive fronts by making them play more contain and less attack.  

 

That was VERY helpful when they could back the safeties up with deep threats like Watkins and Goodwin and then run into tentative fronts(often with a spy hovering off the LOS rather than attacking).     That's how your RB's lead the league in yards before contact and average 5.5 ypc.

 

This is not a good pass blocking OL in general..........I am concerned about Dawkins at LT next year for a pocket passer.........it's a lot different blocking for a QB who can buy nearly 1/3 more time to throw on every snap like Tyrod.

 

Good assessment 

Another point....yes, Tyrod doesn't pull the trigger on some plays he could leave on the field, but where I've seen careful assessments and where I've seen all-22 - our WR corps in general this year has failed to gain separation, and with the possible exception of Benjamin they are NOT the guys who can be trusted to catch the ball in traffic.

 

[Kingston Bills Fan]

Wood and Incognito are getting old and will need replacing soon their play is trending down and may take a bigger dive next year as they are another year older. Especially Wood.

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If this is PFF OL ratings, they're highly tenuous IMO

 

Good assessment 

Another point....yes, Tyrod doesn't pull the trigger on some plays he could leave on the field, but where I've seen careful assessments and where I've seen all-22 - our WR corps in general this year has failed to gain separation, and with the possible exception of Benjamin they are NOT the guys who can be trusted to catch the ball in traffic.

 

 

This WR corps definitely lacks street-ball skills too...........when you watch the all-22's, they run their routes then freeze up and drift............when you have the kind of QB that extends plays you need guys who keep fighting to get open.

 

The Steelers work on this a lot because Roethlisberger has been holding onto the ball and extending plays for years.

 

 That's the trait that really raised Antonio Brown's game to pinball level numbers.......he immediately either fights back to the ball or breaks deep but he gets open and big plays are in abundance when the defense breaks down like that.

 

Sammy Watkins in particular was very good at this in Buffalo and he and Tyrod hit a number of big plays where Sammy got WIDE open when Tyrod bought a little extra time.     

[SoTier]

13 hours ago, westerndecline said:

I have to admit when I'm wrong but your ducasse has played at a very high level the past month and he's someone that we should definitely hang on to some guys just get it very late in their career I do believe you passed was a first-round pick but had no experience entering the league

Glenn 

Incognito

Wood

Ducasse

Dawkins

 

Mills

Miller

Groy

 

Plus they will add some guard or ot high

That's as good as you're going to get in the NFL that's the best you can really hope for after that everything else hinges on the quarterback

 

I seriously doubt that Ducasse has finally "gotten it" late in his career.   Sometimes OLers who actually played poorly look better on film if the context of the play calls and blocking assignments are ignored ... and the guys playing next to them get blamed for letting a rusher hit the QB or for failing to open a hole for a RB.   Ducasse's play at RG hasn't made Eric Wood and/or Justin Mills, the guys playing next to him, look better; in fact, their play could very well be adversely affected by poor play by Ducasse. 

 

The fact is that the play of the OL needs to be evaluated as a unit, and compared to the previous two years, the Bills OL just isn't very good.  With the same QB and feature RB, the Bills OL has played worse pass pro and worse run blocking.  3rdand12 pretty much sums it up below.

 

The Bills desperately need to take an OG high in the draft, no later than Day 2 and maybe even in Round 1, preferably to replace Ducasse, but Incognito might be need to be replaced soon, too, since he's 34 this season.  Taking a center if there's a good one available wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

 

12 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Not much for stats. So much context is needed.
Watching the Bills O line all season via TV , i felt the O line was pretty poor at pass pro. and struggled 50% + in the run game.

They really have not been a strong feature from play to play.
 Shady has a nice number  breaking plays, but his average Yardage is below league average. 4.1 maybe ? compared to 4.2 ??

 

been hit and miss all year IMO.

 

Dawkins has done his work.  I Like that Kid longterm

 

Well said!    Dawkins is very promising, which is a good thing because Zay Jones has been a major disappointment.  That's what teams get with rookies, though.  Some individuals are just more precocious than others, which is why I'm reluctant to label first year players "stars" or "busts" based on their rookie seasons.

 

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Taylor in the game.......pass rush gets muted.

 

Peterman in the game.......pass rush teed off.

 

Taylor runs into his share of sacks as he tries to extend plays into big plays.........but most weeks he changes the gameplan of defensive fronts by making them play more contain and less attack.  

 

That was VERY helpful when they could back the safeties up with deep threats like Watkins and Goodwin and then run into tentative fronts(often with a spy hovering off the LOS rather than attacking).     That's how your RB's lead the league in yards before contact and average 5.5 ypc.

 

This is not a good pass blocking OL in general..........I am concerned about Dawkins at LT next year for a pocket passer.........it's a lot different blocking for a QB who can buy nearly 1/3 more time to throw on every snap like Tyrod.

 

Again, well said!     Excellent analysis.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Interesting that PFF deleted the tweet with the Bills OL as the best at Pass Blocking. 

 

Did they now?  LOL

 

13 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Not much for stats. So much context is needed.
Watching the Bills O line all season via TV , i felt the O line was pretty poor at pass pro. and struggled 50% + in the run game.

They really have not been a strong feature from play to play.
 Shady has a nice number  breaking plays, but his average Yardage is below league average. 4.1 maybe ? compared to 4.2 ??

 

been hit and miss all year IMO.

 

Dawkins has done his work.  I Like that Kid longterm

Yeah, the OL does NOT pass the eyeball test.   

Assessing a pass-blocking OL is challenging.  Let's say the ball is being held too long.  Are WR open?  If not, is it the scheme?  The WR?  The QB not anticipating?  The OL not opening the lanes they're supposed to open?

 

Assessing a run-blocking OL is a bit more straightforward but still a challenge, but let's look at some stats.
Last year, #1 in rush yards, 5.3 y/a 
This year, #6 in rush yards, 4.2 y/a

 

So part of that is the fall-off in rushing attempts (from 492 to 455).  But 5.3 to 4.2 y/a is a pretty big fall-off and suggests one basis for the fall-off in # attempts is failing to convert 1st downs - last year 146 1st downs by rushing, this year 97.  Again, big fall off.

 

You can't look at an OL with the same, quality RB, note less y/a and almost 50% fewer rushing 1st downs and say "everything is fine, they're pretty good actually"
Is it the players, is it the blocking scheme, is it the play calling, I can't tell but something isn't where it needs to be.
 

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Did they now?  LOL

 

Yeah, the OL does NOT pass the eyeball test.   

Assessing a pass-blocking OL is challenging.  Let's say the ball is being held too long.  Are WR open?  If not, is it the scheme?  The WR?  The QB not anticipating?  The OL not opening the lanes they're supposed to open?

 

Assessing a run-blocking OL is a bit more straightforward but still a challenge, but let's look at some stats.
Last year, #1 in rush yards, 5.3 y/a 
This year, #6 in rush yards, 4.2 y/a

 

So part of that is the fall-off in rushing attempts (from 492 to 455).  But 5.3 to 4.2 y/a is a pretty big fall-off and suggests one basis for the fall-off in # attempts is failing to convert 1st downs - last year 146 1st downs by rushing, this year 97.  Again, big fall off.

 

You can't look at an OL with the same, quality RB, note less y/a and almost 50% fewer rushing 1st downs and say "everything is fine, they're pretty good actually"
Is it the players, is it the blocking scheme, is it the play calling, I can't tell but something isn't where it needs to be.
 

The way i simply look define poor pass blocking is how quickly the defense is moving moving off the ball and then if any of them have too much momentum ( ? )
There is certainly a difference as to When, and then Why Tyrod moves off his spot.

As much as I like the person Eric Wood , i feel he has limited the team in his skillset as a blocker. Especially so when trying to move anyone. He also gets bullrushed.
 sure they need a smart fellow to help Tyrod with his protections, or a rookies as well , etc. But defenders push the middle quite often.

room for improvement? Yes. Always.

 where to focus ? I need to look at Groy playing center again. Or find a stronger one who can start sooner than later please.
Richie ? Age and his degree of desire are what matters perhaps?
we can all agree about the right side. I miss John Mills  actually.

Ideally Glenn at LT and move Dawkins the mauler to RT, keep Hendy or better as the 6th T
 

fix the line and everyone on the Team looks better. I have not excluded Coaching in my equation for repairing what became broken