Theshallowcross Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, vorpma said: You sir are out way out there! Welcome to the NFL as I am sure this is your first season! You're debating skills are top notch. Care to explain what you mean as opposed to leaving an unfounded quip? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 They don't fit each other...therefore...they both hold each other back. It's not that hard to figure out. Tyrod won't play as well because he needs a specific scheme to be successful. The offense is hurt by him being a poor timing passer. That has never been my argument. At his best even in last year's system which was tailored to some of his strengths...he's just not good enough and he shows it on a handful of plays every game that could take our offense to the next level but he just can't do it. If I were them, I wouldn't compromise their system so one guy who most likely isn't gonna be there will fit perfectly. We'd have to completely change the offense for Tyrod. The new coaches don't think he's good enough. What has he done to prove he's anything better than average in his almost 3 years of starting?? Nothing...nothing is the right answer. I used to be a Tyrod supported until he showed he couldn't get better at his short timing passes. He's just not good enough. I'm not defending either Dennison or Tyrod. In my opinion, both need to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 45 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said: I've never seen such hype and misleading information on an NFL QB in my life. From the way some of these outsiders speak about TT you'd think he's a former #1 overall draft pick. Good grief the guy was a 6th round pick and backup most of his career in Baltimore for a reason. If we are going to hype up a QB on our team can it at least be NP? At least he was drafted by us and higher than TT was. Unless you're married to him there is literally ZERO reason for your continued love for the absolutely worst-performing QB in the first half of a start of ALL-TIME. This post doesn't even attempt to make a point or base itself on reasoned arguments because you have none. RG3 is out there looking for a job, HE was a FIRST round pick, by your logic we should definitely start him. I mean he was drafted a whole 5 rounds sooner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: They don't fit each other...therefore...they both hold each other back. It's not that hard to figure out. Tyrod won't play as well because he needs a specific scheme to be successful. The offense is hurt by him being a poor timing passer. That has never been my argument. At his best even in last year's system which was tailored to some of his strengths...he's just not good enough and he shows it on a handful of plays every game that could take our offense to the next level but he just can't do it. If I were them, I wouldn't compromise their system so one guy who most likely isn't gonna be there will fit perfectly. We'd have to completely change the offense for Tyrod. The new coaches don't think he's good enough. What has he done to prove he's anything better than average in his almost 3 years of starting?? Nothing...nothing is the right answer. I used to be a Tyrod supported until he showed he couldn't get better at his short timing passes. He's just not good enough. I'm not defending either Dennison or Tyrod. In my opinion, both need to go. Taylor led a top 10 offense (DVOA) the past two seasons. To say that he hasn't proven that he is better than average is wrong on every level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 44 minutes ago, Theshallowcross said: Mike Tanier is as good of a football writer as there is on the planet. He has written for football outsiders which is hands down the best analytics site in the NFL world. To discredit him is simply doing yourself an injustice. I get the narrative though, if you agree with "football writer X" he speaks the truth, if you do not agree with him, he knows nothing and fans will stretch with all their might to discredit him. I've been saying since I joined the board that Dennison runs an antiquated offense and his ultra conservative game plans hinder not only Taylor but the whole of the Bills offense. Why McD thought handing the reigns to the opposite side of the ball that he specializes in to Dennison was a good idea, I'll never know. Dennison is a man who has never called his own plays in games and has only ever been a defacto OC, an OC in name only. Tyrod Taylor is not a transcendent QB, but there only 2 of those guys in the entire NFL. What Taylor is, is a quarterback that can run an NFL level offense proficiently, make teams play 11 on 11 and allows a team to build the other 52 players on the roster because you can be confident that he is a good player. Only in Buffalo is he unappreciated. I assure you that the national narrative is much different. Especially when looking at advanced analytics as everyone in 2017 should do. Woah. We don't need a transcendent QB which it is arguable to say there is a few more than two in this league. Not the point though. Tyrod is not a top 15 QB. He may have some nice stats that say so but he limits the offense as much as he helps it out with his running ability. He's middle of the pack. Do we dare to be better? For once, do we dare to be better than average? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 52 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said: If we are going to hype up a QB on our team can it at least be NP? At least he was drafted by us and higher than TT was. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Theshallowcross said: Taylor led a top 10 offense (DVOA) the past two seasons. To say that he hasn't proven that he is better than average is wrong on every level. No no no no no no. He didn't lead a top ten offense. Shady Mccoy did. Do not mix that up. Shady was the MVP of the offense by a clear mile last year. Tyrod was still steady at middle to lower end in passing offense and only 23 total touchdowns...23!! In what galaxy is that better than average. Just because he's better than every QB we've had since the 90s doesn't mean he's better than average. He may not turn the ball over but he also doesn't punch it in the end zone that often either. 24, 23 and 15 combined touchdowns in his time here. That's not gonna cut it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Woah. We don't need a transcendent QB which it is arguable to say there is a few more than two in this league. Not the point though. Tyrod is not a top 15 QB. He may have some nice stats that say so but he limits the offense as much as he helps it out with his running ability. He's middle of the pack. Do we dare to be better? For once, do we dare to be better than average? So name the guys who transcend their offenses (Brady/Rodgers) and make everyone around them better. Good luck. He is better than top 15 but even if you want to label him as top 15, that's better than half the league. 3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: No no no no no no. He didn't lead a top ten offense. Shady Mccoy did. Do not mix that up. Shady was the MVP of the offense by a clear mile last year. Tyrod was still steady at middle to lower end in passing offense and only 23 total touchdowns...23!! In what galaxy is that better than average. Just because he's better than every QB we've had since the 90s doesn't mean he's better than average. He may not turn the ball over but he also doesn't punch it in the end zone that often either. 24, 23 and 15 combined touchdowns in his time here. That's not gonna cut it Wow. It's the ultimate team game. It never comes down to just one player and I'm not confident that most fans understand this. Shady was able to do what he did because of the threat of Taylor and his legs as well as the offensive line playing in a comfortable scheme that was suited for their abilities. Do you understand what I mean when I say that Taylor forces defenses to play 11 on 11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Theshallowcross said: So name the guys who transcend their offenses (Brady/Rodgers) and make everyone around them better. Good luck. He is better than top 15 but even if you want to label him as top 15, that's better than half the league. Wow. Yep that's better than half of the league. That's also not better than the other half...that's the definition of middle of the pack... Big Ben, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson absolutely makes everyone on the offense better, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz could end up here if he continues to play at the level he's been playing, Andrew Luck when healthy, Drew Brees...the list goes on man. I still consider Tyrod behind Cam, Rivers, Sam Bradford when he was healthy, Jameis Winston...I could keep going but I'm tired. I'm done with being average. We tried it...hasn't worked. Let's be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I find it strange that Tyrod is such a special QB that his greatness is the only one I have seen without the two most important stats a QB is typically judged by. Yards and TD's thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Woah. We don't need a transcendent QB which it is arguable to say there is a few more than two in this league. Not the point though. Tyrod is not a top 15 QB. He may have some nice stats that say so but he limits the offense as much as he helps it out with his running ability. He's middle of the pack. Do we dare to be better? For once, do we dare to be better than average? Oh it's very much the point when there are only 2. Brady and Rodgers. Everyone else is effectively either a system QB because of some inherent limitation..........or age. I'm with you on daring to be better than average...........that could be a journey of 1,000 miles though and the Bills organization hasn't taken the first step...........for once being all-in on a college QB. Never picked one with their first pick in any first round or traded up above their origninal first round pick to get one in almost 60 years of drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Woodman19 said: I find it strange that Tyrod is such a special QB that his greatness is the only one I have seen without the two most important stats a QB is typically judged by. Yards and TD's thrown. Yards and TD's thrown are your only barometer of QB success huh? Taylor is a dual-threat QB and I find it absurd when his rushing statistics are discarded as well as his proficiency to not turn the ball over. Taylor leads the entire league in rushing yards from the quarterback position since the time he was a starter. He also has an excellent 4/1 TD/INT ratio in his time here. Why all that is glossed over is beyond me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: Oh it's very much the point when there are only 2. Brady and Rodgers. Everyone else is effectively either a system QB because of some inherent limitation..........or age. I'm with you on daring to be better than average...........that could be a journey of 1,000 miles though and the Bills organization hasn't taken the first step...........for once being all-in on a college QB. Never picked one with their first pick in any first round or traded up above their origninal first round pick to get one in almost 60 years of drafts. Except there are more than two. If you just consider age knocking some out, that knocks out a lot that have been around the league for a while. Drew Brees, Big Ben, Russell Wilson...there's a plenty of QBs that have been transcendent for their offenses and making the entire offense better. Some of those guys are easy hall of famers...there have been more than two in this league for a while. The next round of young QBs are ready to take over. Why not get in on one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Theshallowcross said: Yards and TD's thrown are your only barometer of QB success huh? Taylor is a dual-threat QB and I find it absurd when his rushing statistics are discarded as well as his proficiency to not turn the ball over. Taylor leads the entire league in rushing yards from the quarterback position since the time he was a starter. He also has an excellent 4/1 TD/INT ratio in his time here. Why all that is glossed over is beyond me? RB, Recievers and QB are typically judged on how many yards and touchdowns they are responsible for, so yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said: I've never seen such hype and misleading information on an NFL QB in my life. From the way some of these outsiders speak about TT you'd think he's a former #1 overall draft pick. Good grief the guy was a 6th round pick and backup most of his career in Baltimore for a reason. If we are going to hype up a QB on our team can it at least be NP? At least he was drafted by us and higher than TT was. Crack is whack dude (ie whitney).........dont think you would be too happy if he played for the pats now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Theshallowcross said: You're debating skills are top notch. Care to explain what you mean as opposed to leaving an unfounded quip? i do appreciate a well sharpened tongue and a keen way with wordings. Perhaps our Good vorpma does as well ? Edited November 30, 2017 by 3rdand12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Theshallowcross said: He is better than top 15 but even if you want to label him as top 15, that's better than half the league. Wow. It's the ultimate team game. It never comes down to just one player and I'm not confident that most fans understand this. Shady was able to do what he did because of the threat of Taylor and his legs as well as the offensive line playing in a comfortable scheme that was suited for their abilities. Do you understand what I mean when I say that Taylor forces defenses to play 11 on 11? A top 15 QB yet we consistently have one of the worst passing offenses in the league with him as a starter? Get real. We’ll see how many teams are lining up to sign him as their starter once we get rid of him. and you guys love to give Tyrod so much credit for McCoy’s success as if he wasnt consistently one of the best RBs in the league before he even got here. Laughable. But you also believe Tyrod can be our franchise QB so it’s not surprising. Edited November 30, 2017 by Bangarang 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 30 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Wow. Yep that's better than half of the league. That's also not better than the other half...that's the definition of middle of the pack... Big Ben, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson absolutely makes everyone on the offense better, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz could end up here if he continues to play at the level he's been playing, Andrew Luck when healthy, Drew Brees...the list goes on man. I still consider Tyrod behind Cam, Rivers, Sam Bradford when he was healthy, Jameis Winston...I could keep going but I'm tired. I'm done with being average. We tried it...hasn't worked. Let's be great. Your list is flawed. There are ONLY two QBs who make their teammates actually better. Brees has only 1 season with an above.500 record since 2011. Only ONE. The rest of the guys I can easily make arguments for why they aren't in the Brady/Rodgers stratosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grb Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said: I've never seen such hype and misleading information on an NFL QB in my life. From the way some of these outsiders speak about TT you'd think he's a former #1 overall draft pick. Good grief the guy was a 6th round pick and backup most of his career in Baltimore for a reason. If we are going to hype up a QB on our team can it at least be NP? At least he was drafted by us and higher than TT was. You see this a lot. The anti-Taylor crowd fuming because no one else in the country (world? solar system? universe?) dislikes Tyrod as much as they do. There's really a simple explanation for this disparity : The rest of the universe sees an above average quarterback - clear upgrade over any recent Bills quarterbacks - who is playing moderately well in an offense drained dry of talent. The rest of the universe sees a mess of an offensive line, a mess of a receiving corps, and a rushing attack as likely as not to be a mess from week to week. Being reasonable people, they remember Taylor regularly making big plays back when he had more to work with. They consider that while judging him now. They see the possibility of upside in a talented third-year starter - particularly given those three years have been cursed with coaching dysfunction, multiple offensive systems, repeated defense collapse, and a revolving door of skill position teammates via trade and injury. It all seems pretty clear & logical, doesn't it? The anti-Taylor crowd finds contempt necessary to keep the fantasy of a dreamboat quarterback pure in their hearts. Anything else would be a betrayal of that perfect image. If a transcendental quarterback floated down from the clouds, they just know problems of offensive line or receivers would be washed away in his blinding white radiance. Any appreciation of Taylor whatsoever fails that glorious vision. Only thru unrelentingly scorn and anger do they dare to be great! Only thru unrelenting scorn and anger do they rise above average! Unrelenting scorn and anger is their sacred moral duty! See? Not a lot of common ground between the two sides. Also : The reason people hype TT instead of NP is because Taylor is a much better quarterback than Peterman. Pretty easy to understand when you try looking at it from that angle...... Edited November 30, 2017 by grb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts