Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: One of most festering peeves about Folks watching football and commenting about a single player.. It really is one of the most serious Team games. Takes each cog to turn smoothly. and each cog needs to be well oiled by Coaching. "Team Game" answers so many questions. And stats are not quick to reveal that perspective. Absolutely. There is not a single sport in the world that takes more cohesion from more moving parts than football. Which is why it really is the greatest game. The chess match between coaches, the schemes and their personnel make it the most intriguing and hard to quantify sport in the world. To lay blame or praise on one player, the way that people lay blame or praise on a QB, this QB in particular is unreal to me. 3 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: You sure sound like another poster that I would think would be all over this thread with the Tyrod name to it? Things that make me go hmmmm?? That you JM? What? Uh no. Don't know JM. 3 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Running a run-based offense that was intentionally designed to hide the deficiencies of the quarterback. No NFL team wants to use that offense on a long-term basis. You say to hide deficiencies while I say to accentuate strengths. He is a dual-threat quarterback. There is no need to neuter his game to appease fans who play too much Madden and are only looking for video game passing and touchdown numbers. Edited November 30, 2017 by Theshallowcross 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Running a run-based offense that was intentionally designed to hide the deficiencies of the quarterback. No NFL team wants to use that offense on a long-term basis. No NFL team wants a top 10 offense on a long-term basis.. No NFL team wants a top 10 offense on a long-term basis.. o_O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: "Transcendent" QB's can take below average teams and all but will them into championship contention. We know they exist because Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers in particular are/were those guys........they took teams to the playoffs every year regardless. There is more to that than just passing for 300 yards in a lot of games. Big Ben is the only other one deserving of that credit........but he's faded.......... now he's more of a system QB and Pittsburgh has HEAVILY fortified the talent around him because they know he's not good enough to survive if he doesn't have an inexhaustible supply of downfield targets that can make plays. Simply not efficient enough any longer. Russell Wilson is entering that area but not enough years of service yet. That's where the debatable part of the list ends. Brees is a HOF passer but not a transcendent QB. He's lost many-a-game with his decisions and those occasional wobbly duck throws. Also a system QB who is being propped up greatly by a tremendous running game and a very solid D this year. Still a great passer but if he was a transcendent QB that was quite a while ago. This is not to say that there is no difference between Tyrod and Big Ben or Brees...........but it's not nearly as large of a gap as so many people here think. Tyrod gets no propping up from his organization. Be honest, you didn't know that Brees was 7-9 each of the last 3 seasons, did you? Haha you're underestimating the wrong guy. I watch too much football haha. Brees offense was not the problem in those years and you know it. The defenses there have been bottom 5 in the league every year. The whole point was...there are guys that have been much better than Tyrod in the last few years. It doesn't matter that the players are older now...the next young group of great QBs is coming...I wanna be on that train, not stuck on a travelling QB that hasn't been better than average. Edited November 30, 2017 by Buffalo30 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Theshallowcross said: Absolutely. There is not a single sport in the world that takes more cohesion from more moving parts than football. Which is why it really is the greatest game. The chess match between coaches, the schemes and their personnel make it the most intriguing and hard to quantify sport in the world. To lay blame it praise on one player, the way that people lay blame or praise on a QB, this QB in particular is unreal to me. when my Son was playing Pop Warner football I learned enough about football to make in interesting to me. He played O line and D line. this is entry level kids. But my the Coaches had played and Coached at higher levels and were happy to explain details about gaps and assignments etc. Then i really watched NFL O Lines working. Details. I find the game very fast and involving and really still need to do all -22 etc. But heck yes. The trick is to get all 11 clicking. for one play. Then 3-4. then a drive, then a qtr etc. chess is a fine analogy 7 minutes ago, xRUSHx said: You sure sound like another poster that I would think would be all over this thread with the Tyrod name to it? Things that make me go hmmmm?? That you JM? ^adding to the discussion again. thanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Haha you're underestimating the wrong guy. I watch too much football haha. Brees offense was not the problem in those years and you know it. The defenses there have been bottom 5 in the league every year. The whole point was...there are guys that have been much better than Tyrod in the last few years. It doesn't matter they the players are older now...the next young group of great QBs is coming...I wanna be on that train, not stuck on a travelling QB that hasn't been better than average. Bring that guy to camp to compete with Taylor. That's all I ask. Hedge your bets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Haha you're underestimating the wrong guy. I watch too much football haha. Brees offense was not the problem in those years and you know it. The defenses there have been bottom 5 in the league every year. The whole point was...there are guys that have been much better than Tyrod in the last few years. It doesn't matter they the players are older now...the next young group of great QBs is coming...I wanna be on that train, not stuck on a travelling QB that hasn't been better than average. I respect your opinion. We should all hope to draft the Future Hall of Fame QB. seriously my thing is make the best of what you have. And what bills staff has trotted out for play calling and O line and WRs has done them no favors , post Lynn and Roman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Theshallowcross said: You say to hide deficiencies while I say to accentuate strengths. He is a dual-threat quarterback. There is no need to neuter his game to appease fans who play too much Madden and are only looking for video game passing and touchdown numbers. You can only hide the passing deficiencies of an NFL quarterback for so long. It's a huge credit to Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn and all of the players involved to accomplish what they did. But even if Rex and Anthony Lynn and everyone else returned in 2017, they weren't going to repeat the same efficiency. We've seen new wrinkles in opposing defenses this season that forces a bubble around Taylor to keep him in the pocket then either collapsing it for the sack or forcing him to check down. 2 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: No NFL team wants a top 10 offense on a long-term basis.. No NFL team wants a top 10 offense on a long-term basis.. o_O You actually thought that same efficiency was sustainable beyond a couple of seasons? That's cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: when my Son was playing Pop Warner football I learned enough about football to make in interesting to me. He played O line and D line. this is entry level kids. But my the Coaches had played and Coached at higher levels and were happy to explain details about gaps and assignments etc. Then i really watched NFL O Lines working. Details. I find the game very fast and involving and really still need to do all -22 etc. But heck yes. The trick is to get all 11 clicking. for one play. Then 3-4. then a drive, then a qtr etc. chess is a fine analogy ^adding to the discussion again. thanks My man!! I can see you share my passion for the intricacies of football. Everything from route concepts, to blocking schemes, gap assignments, to pocket mobilty, to technique, to leverage and how a player creates leverage and on and on and on. Excellent. I love having deeper discussions about football. Discussions beyond "he stinks, nah dude". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Bring that guy to camp to compete with Taylor. That's all I ask. Hedge your bets. I've got no problem with that. I just think we need a young QB to grow with young weapons for a change. Tired of the travelling QBs like Tyrod and Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said: You can only hide the passing deficiencies of an NFL quarterback for so long. It's a huge credit to Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn and all of the players involved to accomplish what they did. But even if Rex and Anthony Lynn and everyone else returned in 2017, they weren't going to repeat the same efficiency. We've seen new wrinkles in opposing defenses this season that forces a bubble around Taylor to keep him in the pocket then either collapsing it for the sack or forcing him to check down. You actually thought that same efficiency was sustainable beyond a couple of seasons? That's cute. Pure hyperbole and nothing to back it up statistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, Theshallowcross said: Pure hyperbole and nothing to back it up statistically. Here's one statistic to back it up: 56 passing yards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: I respect your opinion. We should all hope to draft the Future Hall of Fame QB. seriously my thing is make the best of what you have. And what bills staff has trotted out for play calling and O line and WRs has done them no favors , post Lynn and Roman That's where I've struggled. Obviously, they aren't shaping the offense to him and he's being restricted by it but at the same time we'd have to completely switch the offense. If they stick with the offense, it'll help young players with some consistency. Otherwise, it could cause harm to their development. That's the problem I have with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: You actually thought that same efficiency was sustainable beyond a couple of seasons? That's cute. Sure, teams can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said: That's where I've struggled. Obviously, they aren't shaping the offense to him and he's being restricted by it but at the same time we'd have to completely switch the offense. If they stick with the offense, it'll help young players with some consistency. Otherwise, it could cause harm to their development. That's the problem I have with this. gotta play with what the dice gave you. this is my irk with McD and Dennison and down to Castillo i get ya though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Sure, teams can do that. Teams who have quarterbacks capable of passing the football at a consistently high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said: Here's one statistic to back it up: 56 passing yards. You proved he had a bad game. As did the entire team. The Saints possessed the ball for 41:23 of that game. They ran the ball 48 times for 298 yards and 6 TDs. Context man. Context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, 3rdand12 said: gotta play with what the dice gave you. this is my irk with McD and Dennison and down to Castillo i get ya though. I'm just not the conservative type. I like taking chances to try to get better. Average isn't gonna cut it. Every position can always get better. Having the mentality that we are good enough at positions that we aren't great at just hurts my head. You've got to dare to be better and not get caught up in the instant gratification. I'm looking for long term dominant success, not a first round knockout for a few years and then we have to reset. I wanna be the next Pittsburgh, New England who have just dominated their divisions and have been in the playoffs almost every year for too long to count. That's what I'm going for. Not this average BS where we barely scrape in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: I'm just not the conservative type. I like taking chances to try to get better. Average isn't gonna cut it. Every position can always get better. Having the mentality that we are good enough at positions that we aren't great at just hurts my head. You've got to dare to be better and not get caught up in the instant gratification. I'm looking for long term dominant success, not a first round knockout for a few years and then we have to reset. I wanna be the next Pittsburgh, New England who have just dominated their divisions and have been in the playoffs almost every year for too long to count. That's what I'm going for. Not this average BS where we barely scrape in continuous improvement is the mantra in Life I had hoped. Not just the Bills ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theshallowcross Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 21 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Haha you're underestimating the wrong guy. I watch too much football haha. Brees offense was not the problem in those years and you know it. The defenses there have been bottom 5 in the league every year. The whole point was...there are guys that have been much better than Tyrod in the last few years. It doesn't matter that the players are older now...the next young group of great QBs is coming...I wanna be on that train, not stuck on a travelling QB that hasn't been better than average. You may or may not fall into this category but I've seen a ton of posters mistake a teams win loss record and attribute said win/loss record to one player.... Tyrod Taylor. Can't have it both ways. Brees has 1 winning season since 2011. On Bills message boards, those wins and losses are ALL on the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just now, 3rdand12 said: continuous improvement is the mantra in Life I had hoped. Not just the Bills ! Yessir! I'm never gonna get better at something if I don't try...Same goes for this front office. I hope they take a calculated chance and see some return on it so we don't have to question our QB for a while. 3 minutes ago, Theshallowcross said: You may or may not fall into this category but I've seen a ton of posters mistake a teams win loss record and attribute said win/loss record to one player.... Tyrod Taylor. Can't have it both ways. Brees has 1 winning season since 2011. On Bills message boards, those wins and losses are ALL on the QB. Nope, I don't fall into that category. The QB has questions, the OC has questions, backup running back, a putrid oline at times, The lack of pass rush and run defense in some games has been mind-numbing. That doesn't mean Tyrod doesn't take part of the blame though. He was average to me the last two years when they shaped the offense around him better. I'd rather this regime grab their own guy and not rely on Rex's guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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