Bills clueless about Tyrod Taylor article

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:19 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah. There were some good points but also a number of misreadings of what's going on that seemed almost bizarre.

 

He claims that they're not behind Tyrod as shown by the fact that they're not changing their system in ways that would most help a guy with a style like his. And then further down he says that McDermott seems to be a system over personnel kind of guy. Exactly.

 

McDermott wants a guy who will play in his system. He gave Tyrod a chance to do that. He said from his first press conferences that a QB in his system must be able to throw successfully from the pocket. And now people are complaining that McDermott won't run tons of plays that go to Tyrod's strengths by putting him outside the pocket.

 

The problem isn't that they're not behind Tyrod. It's that as they've made clear, they're looking for a certain kind of QB, and Tyrod this year when given a chance to show he is that kind of a QB hasn't done so.

 

Ummm... what??? A misreading?

 

Anyone who still thinks the Bills were correct to bench Tyrod Taylor for the Nathan Peterman Turnover Loop yesterday need only look around the league. Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Alex Smith: all have either benefitted or improved this season because they play in offenses tailored to their strengths as quick-read or dual-threat quarterbacks.*

 

 

 

Read-options, run-pass options, zone-reads, play-action, pre-snap motion—these are the tools smart coaches are using to overcome the traditional deficiencies that have crept into the NFL because of the proliferation of spread offenses at the game’s lower levels. Then there is the paleozoic stubbornness of Bills head coach Sean McDermott and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who have insisted on making Taylor something he’s not, only to fault Taylor the moment things began to go south after a surprising 5-2 start.

 

 

Not a misreading. In the very beginning it's pointing out an approach by McDermott and Dennison that the article views as "palezoic stubbornness."

 

Love the phrasing because that's pretty much what it is.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

QB pergatory 

[Teddy KGB]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Yep, one **** game against the Saints, he gets benched for it, and karma comes back and really bites the guy who benched him in the butt

 

Only how many bad games ?   There's a 3 year sample size if you're scoring at home 

 

??‍♂️

 

Lets stop peddling false narratives, it's definitely deeper than "just one game"

 

.Karma got McDermott because he was forced to bench a guy who passed for 59 yards ? 

 

Karma vs Tooth Fairy.     Who wins ? 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

Only how many bad games ?   There's a 3 year sample size if you're scoring at home 

 

??‍♂️

 

Lets stop peddling false narratives, it's definitely deeper than "just one game"

 

.Karma got McDermott because he was forced to bench a guy who passed for 59 yards ? 

 

Karma vs Tooth Fairy.     Who wins ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He wasn't forced to do anything.

 

His defense didn't force a punt for almost two consecutive games...........that was 95% of the problem........the offensive issues were also not solely Tyrod's........as the Peterphiles found out in the first 2 quarters Sunday.

 

McD has now earned himself a NATIONAL reputation for making dumb decisions..........that could hurt him down the line........Pegula's are very sensitive to "dumpster fire" talk.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

59 yards is 59 yards.     Throw some risky jump balls like Cousins, Wilson and others do.   

 

 

He doesn't have nearly the leash that those guys have.

 

I'd like to see him throw the ball downfield and take more chances.......but I understand completely why he does not.

 

This is a guy who had a great game in a make or break playoff contest against the rival Dolphins after having to play with marginal NFL player Brandon Tate as one of his top 2 WR for much of the season.........and two days later he's on the bench and essentially being given 0% chance of returning to the team even though they have NOBODY behind him.

 

Takes a big contract adjustment to come back.........then the team undermines him to the point that he enters the season with ONLY Brandon Tate back in his WR corps from last year.

[Thurman#1]

23 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

His defense didn't force a punt for almost two consecutive games...........that was 95% of the problem........the offensive issues were also not solely Tyrod's........as the Peterphiles found out in the first 2 quarters Sunday.

 

McD has now earned himself a NATIONAL reputation for making dumb decisions..........that could hurt him down the line........Pegula's are very sensitive to "dumpster fire" talk.

 

 

 

Oh, please. Nobody - absolutely nobody - has been saying that our offensive issues are totally Tyrod's problems. As usual people with weak arguments imagine arguments that nobody has made and then knock down those completely imaginary arguments. Everyone's aware of our issues at RT, concerns at RG, and it goes on.

 

But yeah, Tyrod's problems are a large part of the problem.

 

And this decision by McDermott will be a molehill by the time he leaves here, whether he's been successful or not.

 

 

On 11/25/2017 at 4:06 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... what??? A misreading?

 

Anyone who still thinks the Bills were correct to bench Tyrod Taylor for the Nathan Peterman Turnover Loop yesterday need only look around the league. Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Alex Smith: all have either benefitted or improved this season because they play in offenses tailored to their strengths as quick-read or dual-threat quarterbacks.*

 

 

 

Read-options, run-pass options, zone-reads, play-action, pre-snap motion—these are the tools smart coaches are using to overcome the traditional deficiencies that have crept into the NFL because of the proliferation of spread offenses at the game’s lower levels. Then there is the paleozoic stubbornness of Bills head coach Sean McDermott and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who have insisted on making Taylor something he’s not, only to fault Taylor the moment things began to go south after a surprising 5-2 start.

 

 

Not a misreading. In the very beginning it's pointing out an approach by McDermott and Dennison that the article views as "palezoic stubbornness."

 

Love the phrasing because that's pretty much what it is.

 

 

 

Look again, I didn't say "a misreading," I said, "misreadings." And for good reason. That article is packed with them. Not to mention consistently contradicting in one part of the article what he says in another. It was a very bizarre article, shooting at around 12 targets and not really hitting anything because of it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Oh, please. Nobody - absolutely nobody - has been saying that our offensive issues are totally Tyrod's problems. As usual people with weak arguments imagine arguments that nobody has made and then knock down those completely imaginary arguments. Everyone's aware of our issues at RT, concerns at RG, and it goes on.

 

But yeah, Tyrod's problems are a large part of the problem.

 

And this decision by McDermott will be a molehill by the time he leaves here, whether he's been successful or not.

 

Look again, I didn't say "a misreading," I said, "misreadings." And for good reason. That article is packed with them. Not to mention consistently contradicting in one article what he says in another. It was a very bizarre article, shooting at around 12 targets and not really hitting anything because of it.

 

Whatever you say Thurm.

 

Typical approach by you.

 

Avoid actual discussion by sticking with weird semantics.

 

 

Ready to talk yet about how improved Taylor is over the intermediate middle portion of the field yet?

[Thurman#1]

9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Whatever you say Thurm.

 

Typical approach by you.

 

Avoid actual discussion by sticking with weird semantics.

 

 

Ready to talk yet about how improved Taylor is over the intermediate middle portion of the field yet?

 

 

That's a very untypical post by you. Completely and absolutely avoiding any substance whatsoever. Nice Job of saying absolutely nothing. Unusual as you usually bring up some irrelevant statistic and lead the argument off into left field. Didn't even bother with that this time.

 

As for the "intermediate middle portion", nope, I'm ready to talk - as always - about the deep and intermediate middle third. The area he throws less often to. I get that you generally don't want to talk about this exact thing. And I get why. With you it's always part of it or an area near it or whatever. But that's the area where Tyrod has always had issues. 

 

It was good to see Tyrod throwing  to the deep middle, by the way, last week. Threw there two times, bringing his numbers up to three attempts there in the whole season. And zero completions. 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

On 11/25/2017 at 4:06 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... what??? A misreading?

 

Anyone who still thinks the Bills were correct to bench Tyrod Taylor for the Nathan Peterman Turnover Loop yesterday need only look around the league. Jared Goff, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Alex Smith: all have either benefitted or improved this season because they play in offenses tailored to their strengths as quick-read or dual-threat quarterbacks.*

 

 

 

Read-options, run-pass options, zone-reads, play-action, pre-snap motion—these are the tools smart coaches are using to overcome the traditional deficiencies that have crept into the NFL because of the proliferation of spread offenses at the game’s lower levels. Then there is the paleozoic stubbornness of Bills head coach Sean McDermott and offensive coordinator Rick Dennison, who have insisted on making Taylor something he’s not, only to fault Taylor the moment things began to go south after a surprising 5-2 start.

 

 

Not a misreading. In the very beginning it's pointing out an approach by McDermott and Dennison that the article views as "palezoic stubbornness."

 

Love the phrasing because that's pretty much what it is.

 

 

Oh, wait, the paleozoic stubbornness you love so much is exactly one of those contradictions. 

 

In one place in the article it claims not changing the offense to maximize Tyrod shows he's not behind Tyrod. And in another it's paleozoic stubbornness. Exactly. Shooting at a million targets and not hitting anything. Thanks for the great example.

 

From the beginning they've said they needed a guy to be successful from the pocket. Tyrod knew this when he re-signed here. And Tyrod's boyband-fanlike fanboys should have known it too. McD gave him a chance to be the guy they want and he hasn't succeeded. 

 

As for those other QBs, of course they're building around Wentz. He's the QB this regime brought in. He likely fitted their own coaching ideas. Same with Watson. This regime drafted him. Andy Reid brought in Alex Smith. Of course those coaches had schemes that were friendly for that QB. They're the coaches who brought in that QB. The one exception of your examples is Goff, and McVay was brought in specifically to build around Goff and make him effective.

 

The Pegulas didn't bring McD in saying, "Build around Tyrod." I'm sure you and yours would have loved that but that's not even close to what they said. They just wanted the Carolina boys to build a winner down the line. 

 

Expecting them to treat Tyrod the way those three first round guys - one rookie and two second-year guys - and one guy (Smith) with a lot of playoff experience were treated shows a misunderstanding by you and by the article of what McDermott has said from the beginning. Again, he said to play for him a QB had to be successful from the pocket. Expecting him then to scheme around Tyrod misses the point and their direction.

 

 

On 11/24/2017 at 6:01 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Last season they were 7th in the NFL in scoring and had the fewest turnovers by an NFL team thru 15 games since the merger........and scored 28 points on average in wins......a very healthy margin of victory......not narrow defensive victories.

 

There have been MANY factors relating to their offensive woes this year and Tyrod is the least of them.

 

Poor coaching on many levels......poor offensive design.......poor play calls.......game-tighteningly conservative calls in numerous games.....and then major matchup issues outside the hashes......no depth at RB.......woeful pass protection. 

 

 

 

 

 

He hasn't been the least of them. He has been a major factor.

 

And last year they were the 16th ranked offense. Yeah, the Bills ranked higher than that in scoring but scoring is a team stat. Yeah the offense counts for the highest portion, but scoring is done by defense and STs as well, and field positions is huge in terms of how likely the offense is to score. The defense last year put the offense in really good field position a lot (10th best average offensive drive start). While the defense was put in bad field position by the offense a lot (23rd best defensive). 

 

And in spite of that, the run game last year was really terrific, but the pass game was poor, just like this year.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

14 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's a very untypical post by you. Completely and absolutely avoiding any substance whatsoever. Nice Job of saying absolutely nothing. Unusual as you usually bring up some irrelevant statistic and lead the argument off into left field. Didn't even bother with that this time.

 

As for the "intermediate middle portion", nope, I'm ready to talk - as always - about the deep and intermediate middle third. The area he throws less often to. I get that you generally don't want to talk about this exact thing. And I get why. With you it's always part of it or an area near it or whatever. But that's the area where Tyrod has always had issues. 

 

It was good to see Tyrod throwing  to the deep middle, by the way, last week. Threw there two times, bringing his numbers up to three attempts there in the whole season. And zero completions. 

 

 

 

I didn't respond to everything because why bother if you're just playing a rhetorical game rather than actually talking football?

 

As for deep and intermediate, why do you still lump the 2 together?

 

Honestly, it's a weird stubborn obsession you have doing that.

 

Intermediate middle is no longer a problem. 

 

And that was the biggest legitimate worry because the vaaAAAaaaassst majority of NFL throws are less than 20 yards and the chain moving money maker throws are those 10-20 yard throws. And the most difficult ones are that middle portion less than 20 yards where you're dealing with all the traffic.

 

He has a passer rating above 143 throwing there (league average is low 80s) and he's thrown almost 20 passes, 2 TDs and zero interceptions to the intermediate middle portion of the field.

 

That's A LOT more than the last couple years.

 

He improved from 2015 to 2016 but his leap from 2016 to 2017 is noticeable and significant.

 

As for the deep middle. It still doesn't matter, but 

 

Taylor's thrown 1.1% of his passes there.

 

Russell Wilson's thrown 2.1% of his passes there.

 

Whoopdy doooo

 

 

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Hopefully Tyrod shuts us all up in about 10 hours and leads this team to a win

[Gigs]

Tbh, the Bills hired Ned Flanders to coach. Ned is a man of God and God doesn’t take risks; neither does he.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I didn't respond to everything because why bother if you're just playing a rhetorical game rather than actually talking football?

 

As for deep and intermediate, why do you still lump the 2 together?

 

Honestly, it's a weird stubborn obsession you have doing that.

 

Intermediate middle is no longer a problem. 

 

And that was the biggest legitimate worry because the vaaAAAaaaassst majority of NFL throws are less than 20 yards and the chain moving money maker throws are those 10-20 yard throws. And the most difficult ones are that middle portion less than 20 yards where you're dealing with all the traffic.

 

He has a passer rating above 143 throwing there (league average is low 80s) and he's thrown almost 20 passes, 2 TDs and zero interceptions to the intermediate middle portion of the field.

 

That's A LOT more than the last couple years.

 

He improved from 2015 to 2016 but his leap from 2016 to 2017 is noticeable and significant.

 

As for the deep middle. It still doesn't matter, but 

 

Taylor's thrown 1.1% of his passes there.

 

Russell Wilson's thrown 2.1% of his passes there.

 

Whoopdy doooo

 

 

 

 

 

The whoopdy doo is that Wilson is also one of the lowest QBs in the league at throwing there and he still throws there nearly twice as often as Tyrod does. And by the way, has Wilson got any completions there? Or is he 0 for 3 like Tyrod is? Through three games, Tyrod had thrown one pass there, incomplete. Never threw another till last week when he threw two, both incomplete. Most of the rest of the league are weil above than and it's very likely that there isn't another starter in the league who's thrown there as low a number of times or as low a percentage of times. Even safer to say that about completions there, what with Tyrod having zero.

 

Pretty funny to compare Wilson to Tyrod in that zone, and funny that you used passer rating to talk about the intermediate zone but not the deep one. Wonder why that is? Oh, possibly it's because while he was throwing there twice as often Wilson came up with a 100.3 passer rating while Tyrod had a 39.6. Wait, is it possible to get a passer rating lower than that? Passer ratings are pretty random on small samples like this? Yeah, exactly my point. Especially if the samples are, you know, smaller than the rest of the league.

 

And thinking that 1.1% is the key number is flat-out dumb. Deep throws are extremely important. They get chunk plays far more often than short, intermediate or behind the line throws. Yeah, the majority of all throws are within ten yards or behind the line. Doesn't mean the longer balls aren't important. They are. They back safeties up which helps with the short pass game and the run game as well. Give a defense a tendency that obvious - that they don't have to worry about a very large segment of the field, and they'll use it. They'll edge guys in the deep middle up to fight the run game and over to help on the sidelines. The important number is how many of his deep balls are to the deep middle. Tyrod probably is the single most predictable QB in this, and that gives the defense an advantage.

 

As for why I still link the deep and intermediate middle third together, I get that you seem to feel this is like rocket science. But it ain't. I link them together because he has a history of not throwing often to either.  Again, makes him easier to predict and the Bills easier to defense.

Edited November 26, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Billsfan1972]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Oh, wait, the paleozoic stubbornness you love so much is exactly one of those contradictions. 

 

In one place in the article it claims not changing the offense to maximize Tyrod shows he's not behind Tyrod. And in another it's paleozoic stubbornness. Exactly. Shooting at a million targets and not hitting anything. Thanks for the great example.

 

From the beginning they've said they needed a guy to be successful from the pocket. Tyrod knew this when he re-signed here. And Tyrod's boyband-fanlike fanboys should have known it too. McD gave him a chance to be the guy they want and he hasn't succeeded. 

 

As for those other QBs, of course they're building around Wentz. He's the QB this regime brought in. He likely fitted their own coaching ideas. Same with Watson. This regime drafted him. Andy Reid brought in Alex Smith. Of course those coaches had schemes that were friendly for that QB. They're the coaches who brought in that QB. The one exception of your examples is Goff, and McVay was brought in specifically to build around Goff and make him effective.

 

The Pegulas didn't bring McD in saying, "Build around Tyrod." I'm sure you and yours would have loved that but that's not even close to what they said. They just wanted the Carolina boys to build a winner down the line. 

 

Expecting them to treat Tyrod the way those three first round guys - one rookie and two second-year guys - and one guy (Smith) with a lot of playoff experience were treated shows a misunderstanding by you and by the article of what McDermott has said from the beginning. Again, he said to play for him a QB had to be successful from the pocket. Expecting him then to scheme around Tyrod misses the point and their direction.

 

 

 

 

He hasn't been the least of them. He has been a major factor.

 

And last year they were the 16th ranked offense. Yeah, the Bills ranked higher than that in scoring but scoring is a team stat. Yeah the offense counts for the highest portion, but scoring is done by defense and STs as well, and field positions is huge in terms of how likely the offense is to score. The defense last year put the offense in really good field position a lot (10th best average offensive drive start). While the defense was put in bad field position by the offense a lot (23rd best defensive). 

 

And in spite of that, the run game last year was really terrific, but the pass game was poor, just like this year.

You adapt to the players strengths, not your antiquated schemes.  Did the Offense try and make Shady a power RB, Matthews a speed wr to stretch the field?  No, but Tyrod a pocket passer.....   This coaching staff is a joke the way they treated the offense (and now too the defense).  Watch Goff and if you look close, you'll see right now a good (not great qb) who is succeeding due to great offensive playcalling.  Wentz just has a great team behind him and looks outstanding and Watson is a great leader & athletic.  

 

We saw that great Offense that Dennison implemented with his QB vs. LAC get embarrassed last week. The egg on the coaching staffs' faces was well deserved.

 

There is from what I can tell almost no Tyrod Fanboys (as opposed to Petermaniacs who wanted him named the starter out of training camp).  There are many however who want to see Tyrod given the weapons and playcalling to se if he can throw for 300 and score 30+ points.

 

I seemed quite obvious vs. LAC that the coaching staff were going out of their way to prove just how smart they were and calling plays that would have had Peterman throwing for 300 yards and 30+ points and being vindicated.......  

 

How did that work out????

Edited November 26, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The whoopdy doo is that Wilson is also one of the lowest QBs in the league at throwing there and he still throws there nearly twice as often as Tyrod does. And by the way, has Wilson got any completions there? Or is he 0 for 3 like Tyrod is? Through three games, Tyrod had thrown one pass there, incomplete. Never threw another till last week when he threw two, both incomplete. Most of the rest of the league are weil above than and it's very likely that there isn't another starter in the league who's thrown there as low a number of times or as low a percentage of times. Even safer to say that about completions there, what with Tyrod having zero.

 

Pretty funny to compare Wilson to Tyrod in that zone, and funny that you used passer rating to talk about the intermediate zone but not the deep one. Wonder why that is? Oh, possibly it's because while he was throwing there twice as often Wilson came up with a 100.3 passer rating while Tyrod had a 39.6. Wait, is it possible to get a passer rating lower than that? Passer ratings are pretty random on small samples like this? Yeah, exactly my point. Especially if the samples are, you know, smaller than the rest of the league.

 

And thinking that 1.1% is the key number is flat-out dumb. Deep throws are extremely important. They get chunk plays far more often than short, intermediate or behind the line throws. Yeah, the majority of all throws are within ten yards or behind the line. Doesn't mean the longer balls aren't important. They are. They back safeties up which helps with the short pass game and the run game as well. Give a defense a tendency that obvious - that they don't have to worry about a very large segment of the field, and they'll use it. They'll edge guys in the deep middle up to fight the run game and over to help on the sidelines. The important number is how many of his deep balls are to the deep middle. Tyrod probably is the single most predictable QB in this, and that gives the defense an advantage.

 

As for why I still link the deep and intermediate middle third together, I get that you seem to feel this is like rocket science. But it ain't. I link them together because he has a history of not throwing often to either.  Again, makes him easier to predict and the Bills easier to defense.

 

It's too bad you just keep on shifting your argument Thurm. It's like you're chasing your own tail or something.

 

We've had this conversation enough where it's pretty easy to remember that it was always about frequency throwing to the deep middle. It was frequency that you stressed. And suddenly  as you see that Taylor is comparable to one of the better NFL QBs (and question, what are the numbers of all of the other NFL QBs to the deep middle if you're saying Wilson throws there less than most? Have you done the work? Can't wait to read it!) you suddenly bring in how ineffective he is.

 

And you say you lump the two together because Taylor has a history of both. Well as far as the intermediate middle goes, he's been improving on it since his first year as a starter and is significantly improved right now. And he throws their relatively frequently and incredibly effectively.

 

So you talk your bubbles about the deep middle, leave the poor now innocent intermediate middle out of it