Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Execution on offense has been the main issue with the Bills so far this season, and while they've done a much better job of avoiding penalties, the fouls they committed on Sunday had a tremendous effect on the outcome of the game. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/10/10/16449092/buffalo-bills-cincinnati-bengals-penalty-recap-jerry-hughes-logan-thomas-greg-mabin-dion-dawkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link They really did a good job of describing the impact that those penalties had on the game. And there were 3 or 4 against the Bills that were phantom or ticky-tack. There's no denying that the offense hasn't been good. Runs are getting blown up (and where's the option?), and the Bills have a poor WR group. As poor as they've been as a unit, they've been good enough. They just haven't executed, consistently, very much this year. A missed throw from Tyrod here, a drop by a WR on a nice throw there. And against the Bengals, not only were those issues, as well as the Bills losing Clay, and Green torching the rookie. But even still, the Bills were in the game. Penalties were a truly deciding factor this time. It's hard to believe that a football team can win the turnover battle by 3 and lose the game, but it's happened to the Bills before. The officials certainly played a major role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The phantom hold on TT's 3rd down run for a first down was a killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 If you notice, the refs seem to throw more flags on 3rd down on plays of consequence. It happened to us and other teams this past weekend... the Giants and Bears in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) If you notice, the refs seem to throw more flags on 3rd down on plays of consequence. It happened to us and other teams this past weekend... the Giants and Bears in particular. Likely because , as the old axiom goes they could throw a flag for holding on most every play. Games would then be unwatchable. So they give less lenience on critical downs, especially if the infraction is close to the play. I thought the penalties called on the Bills vs the Bengals were pretty legit. And some were flat out unnecessary. Just dumb. The Dawkins hold comes to mind. So obvious and he really just needed to shove the guy out of the way. His man wasn't going to make the stop on the play anyway. They really did a good job of describing the impact that those penalties had on the game. And there were 3 or 4 against the Bills that were phantom or ticky-tack. There's no denying that the offense hasn't been good. Runs are getting blown up (and where's the option?), and the Bills have a poor WR group. As poor as they've been as a unit, they've been good enough. They just haven't executed, consistently, very much this year. A missed throw from Tyrod here, a drop by a WR on a nice throw there. And against the Bengals, not only were those issues, as well as the Bills losing Clay, and Green torching the rookie. But even still, the Bills were in the game. Penalties were a truly deciding factor this time. It's hard to believe that a football team can win the turnover battle by 3 and lose the game, but it's happened to the Bills before. The officials certainly played a major role. And penalties committed by the Bills but not called vs ATL played a major role. T White grabbing the WRs jersey on 4th down comes to mind. Sometimes you get the breaks. Other times they go the opposite way. Edited October 12, 2017 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The phantom hold on TT's 3rd down run for a first down was a killer Dawkins did not hold on that play. Also np flag on Burfict for pushing TT while out of bounds. If TT we're heads up he would've taken a dive and flags would've rained down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceagain778 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Nice article. My response to the Bills trending in the wrong "penalty direction". Players are being thrust into premature starting roles because of our lack of depth (Logan Thomas, Zay Jones, Greg Mabin), etc. Inferior player talent/experience leads to more penalties and costlier ones. I blame Beane more than the players or coaching for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 12, 2017 Author Share Posted October 12, 2017 Likely because , as the old axiom goes they could throw a flag for holding on most every play. Games would then be unwatchable. So they give less lenience on critical downs, especially if the infraction is close to the play. I thought the penalties called on the Bills vs the Bengals were pretty legit. And some were flat out unnecessary. Just dumb. The Dawkins hold comes to mind. So obvious and he really just needed to shove the guy out of the way. His man wasn't going to make the stop on the play anyway. And penalties committed by the Bills but not called vs ATL played a major role. T White grabbing the WRs jersey on 4th down comes to mind. Sometimes you get the breaks. Other times they go the opposite way. For sure, the Bills have benefitted on calls/no calls in the previous games, but Sunday's officiating was probably a bit weak. There were a couple penalties that were questioned by the announcers in the broadcast booth. The officials in Atlanta "let the players play" near the end of the game, whereas the officials in Cincinnati did not. When you consider the timing, and the magnitude of those penalties, and how they directly impacted the final score for both teams, you can say that the game was probably poorly officiated, especially for Buffalo. I'm not "whining" about the refs, or necessarily blaming them for the loss, although the data in the article is there. I know how this league works, and if anything, consistency from one group of officials to the next is the issue there. What I gathered from the article was that Dennison is probably getting too much blame for the loss. He may not be all that creative with his run calls, but the players on the field are much more to blame. Aside from just the damning penalties on Sunday, execution on offense has been the main thing holding this offense back. If they can execute more consistently, this offense is more than good enough to make a playoff run. It's obviously not an offense that's meant to put up huge numbers in the passing game, but the numbers would look much, much better if the players hadn't failed to execute so often this season. The WR group is terrible, and there have been too many drops on easy catches, Taylor has missed open players or not thrown to them, and McCoy is having the worst year of his career (and he doesn't look like he's slowing down). It really starts with the offensive line. One missed block on a run seems to be much more crucial in this scheme, and it happens far too often. Pass blocking has been good at times, but hasn't been consistent. If the play up front doesn't improve, this team will not make the playoffs. Nice article. My response to the Bills trending in the wrong "penalty direction". Players are being thrust into premature starting roles because of our lack of depth (Logan Thomas, Zay Jones, Greg Mabin), etc. Inferior player talent/experience leads to more penalties and costlier ones. I blame Beane more than the players or coaching for this one. That's a good point. Some of the new, younger guys have been getting flagged. Injuries have pushed them into the lineup, though. At least they're getting some valuable on-field experience, and hopefully learn from their mistakes. I think it's funny...all week, everyone downplayed win last Sunday because the Falcons lost Jones and Sanu (most were saying that they "were without", as if they didn't play at all), but no one talks about how the Bills lost Clay very early. He's been a top TE this year, and is probably as crucial to the Bills offense as Jones is to Atlanta, maybe more when you consider the depth and current WR group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 One thing that is not being taken into account in the "harm" metric is if the penalty possibly helped result in positive yards (most applicable to holding). I remember during the game on the Thomas hold that called back Shady's 44 yd run thinking it was possible he wouldn't have gotten past the 1st level if the hold wasn't made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 One thing that is not being taken into account in the "harm" metric is if the penalty possibly helped result in positive yards (most applicable to holding). I remember during the game on the Thomas hold that called back Shady's 44 yd run thinking it was possible he wouldn't have gotten past the 1st level if the hold wasn't made Yep, was thinking the same thing. And if you REALLY wanted to analyze the penalty situation, you should also start for accounting for obvious penalties that weren't called. One could make this incredibly complicated if you want but i thin the analysis might be valuable or at least interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Dawkins did not hold on that play. Also np flag on Burfict for pushing TT while out of bounds. If TT we're heads up he would've taken a dive and flags would've rained down. You know the refs would have pulled out some rule, "embellishment" call it, on TT for taking a dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The phantom hold on TT's 3rd down run for a first down was a killer Dawkins DID indeed grab a handful of the defenders jersey OUTSIDE his shoulder pad, directly in front of where TT was running. It clearly altered the outcome of the play as it gave TT the time and space he needed (literally one second of grabbing) to get by the D-lineman. It was the correct call by the ref. Holding happens every play in the NFL, it is allowed when it is inside the shoulder pads in the chest area of the defender, that is how linemen are taught to block. This was clearly on the outside of the shoulder pad and thus, a hold. (Refs did a TERRIBLE job all around with this game though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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