Republican Tax Plan (a nothingburger with cheese)

[Gary M]

4 minutes ago, baskin said:

 

"I tried to block the GOP from borrowing money from the Chinese that my kids will have to pay back"

 

 

 

or they could stop spending so much !

[gatorbait]

The tax plan is pretty awesome imo. Who really cares about another 1.5 trillion in debt, especially when the people are actually getting something back from it. Companies are shelling out bonuses and raising their minimum wage left and right too. Trump’s popularity could see a huge jump from this. 

[keepthefaith]

Hearing anyone on the left complain about debt/deficits is exceptionally humorous. 

[gatorbait]

On 12/20/2017 at 4:32 PM, B-Man said:

 

Al Franken resigned 2 weeks ago, however, he is still in The Senate and voted on the #TaxBill tonight. #TaxCutAndJobsActpic.twitter.com/1wT3HaF1Ha

 

 

I think his last day in office will be January 2nd

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, gatorbait said:

The tax plan is pretty awesome imo. Who really cares about another 1.5 trillion in debt, especially when the people are actually getting something back from it. Companies are shelling out bonuses and raising their minimum wage left and right too. Trump’s popularity could see a huge jump from this. 

 

Given the ten trillion in debt Obama amassed for us over eight years, what's another 1.5 trillion over four more years?

[gatorbait]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 

Given the ten trillion in debt Obama amassed for us over eight years, what's another 1.5 trillion over four more years?

Agreed. I thought I read it was 1.5 over 10 years but you are probably right. 

[TH3]

3 hours ago, keepthefaith said:

Hearing anyone on the left complain about debt/deficits is exceptionally humorous. 

Hearing anyone on the right  boast about borrowing money to fund unneeded tax cuts is simply pathetic

2 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

Given the ten trillion in debt Obama amassed for us over eight years, what's another 1.5 trillion over four more years?

Are you trying to equate the economic circumstances as equal?

[DC Tom]

8 minutes ago, baskin said:

Are you trying to equate the economic circumstances as equal?

 

I wouldn't do that.  

 

But I'd let MSNBC do it:

 

Quote

there’s fresh evidence that the recovery that began in 2010 is still percolating along.

 

[ALF]

President Trump signed a $700 billion defense budget earlier this month, but budget caps put in place in 2011 remain on the books, robbing the Pentagon of much-needed money to rebuild the military. That drew concern from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., on Capitol Hill Friday.

 

"Defense has actually been hit harder under the Budget Control Act than domestic programs have," McConnell said. "So, I think there's an urgency there."

A short-term spending plan keeps the military funded through Jan.19, but unless the cuts are repealed next month, roughly $100 billion will be axed from the budget and Trump's goal of rebuilding the military will be in jeopardy.

 

31 percent of the Navy's 542 F-18 Super Hornet jets are fully mission capable and fully half of them can't fly at all.

 

Meanwhile, Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson says her force is approximately 2,000 pilots short of the number required and officials say only half its fleet of B-1 and B-2 bombers can fly.

 

"Were we to find ourselves in a high end conflict with Russia or China," said former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Eric Edelman, quoting a RAND study released earlier this month, "we could lose."

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/22/defense-cuts-looming-unless-congress-takes-action-next-month.html

 

2 major wars and Budget Control Act of 2011  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011

 

have taken a very heavy toll on the military that will take years to recover.  So much for a lower deficit.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by ALF

[westerndecline]

18 hours ago, gatorbait said:

The tax plan is pretty awesome imo. Who really cares about another 1.5 trillion in debt, especially when the people are actually getting something back from it. Companies are shelling out bonuses and raising their minimum wage left and right too. Trump’s popularity could see a huge jump from this. 

In theory least massive tax cuts the dismantling of the EPA the reduction in the corporate tax rate and ending the ObamaCare insurance cycle mandate should stimulate growth to the point that it starts to cut into the deficit over the next four years we shall see

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, westerndecline said:

In theory least massive tax cuts the dismantling of the EPA the reduction in the corporate tax rate and ending the ObamaCare insurance cycle mandate should stimulate growth to the point that it starts to cut into the deficit over the next four years we shall see

Here's a picture of how I feel after reading something you write:

[keepthefaith]

18 hours ago, baskin said:

Hearing anyone on the right  boast about borrowing money to fund unneeded tax cuts is simply pathetic

 

And like a good soldier of the left, you're assuming that these tax cuts will reduce revenue to the federal government and that the spending side is untouchable. 

 

Time will tell. 

[TPS]

23 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

And like a good soldier of the left, you're assuming that these tax cuts will reduce revenue to the federal government and that the spending side is untouchable. 

 

Time will tell. 

Maybe it's because there are two previous examples of supply side tax cuts that show revenues decline when the cuts go into effect?

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[3rdnlng]

16 minutes ago, TPS said:

Maybe it's because there are two previous examples of supply side tax cuts that show revenues decline when the cuts go into effect?

I think that is actually an incomplete statement. After a reasonable amount of time what do revenues do?

[KevinRome]

Here’s another gem in the tax bill, taxing the multi-billion dollar endowments of the progessive’s indoctination machines (whose 4x inflation tuition increases over the past 40 years is laundered tax payer money via student loan defaults):

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/new_tax_on_the_rich_pleases_conservatives_infuriates_liberals.html

 

The only problem is that the tax is too low.

[TPS]

45 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I think that is actually an incomplete statement. After a reasonable amount of time what do revenues do?

"After a reasonable amount of time..."

been over this ad nauseum with GG. Here's what happens according to standard Keynesian theory: tax cuts create deficits which are expansionary. The deficits will boost the economy helping GDP growth. The income growth in the first year or two is never enough to offset the rate cuts, so the share (%) of revenues to GDP declines and deficits are larger in the first 1-2 years. If the economy continues to grow, then revenues, both absolute and share, rise as unemployment falls. 

 

As as I stated about the Trump cuts, the deficit is projected to rise back above $1 trillion. This will give the economy a nice jolt, but we are too far along in the expansion, so the Fed will end up increasing rates faster than they expected, causing the next recession.

Btw, I am willing to bet that revenues as a share of GDP will decline for the year the rate cuts go into effect, if anyone is so inclined...

Edited December 23, 2017 by TPS

[B-Man]

 

And just like night follows day...........the liberal dems and media (but I repeat myself) try and change the narrative from The GOP and Trump's success with the Tax Reform Bill and trot out some tired old story of Trump "talking down" groups during White House meetings.

 

They really don't have any other playbook, do they ?..................they don't realize that no one outside of the newsroom or falculty louge gives a sh*t about that

 

I'm not even going to link to that it's so much baloney.......

 

 

 

 

 

.

[GG]

10 hours ago, TPS said:

"After a reasonable amount of time..."

been over this ad nauseum with GG. Here's what happens according to standard Keynesian theory: tax cuts create deficits which are expansionary. The deficits will boost the economy helping GDP growth. The income growth in the first year or two is never enough to offset the rate cuts, so the share (%) of revenues to GDP declines and deficits are larger in the first 1-2 years. If the economy continues to grow, then revenues, both absolute and share, rise as unemployment falls. 

 

As as I stated about the Trump cuts, the deficit is projected to rise back above $1 trillion. This will give the economy a nice jolt, but we are too far along in the expansion, so the Fed will end up increasing rates faster than they expected, causing the next recession.

Btw, I am willing to bet that revenues as a share of GDP will decline for the year the rate cuts go into effect, if anyone is so inclined...

 

One would think that the last 9 years was enough of a petrie dish to experiment on.

 

Our arguments always ended in the same place.  You think that the deficits themselves are expansionary, while my position is the expansions are correlated to the cause of the deficit.  If that deficit is caused by blow out spending, then don't hold your breath for an economic expansion.  If the deficit is caused by tax cuts, then the private sector is motivated to increase economic activity.

 

I've been consistently saying since 2009 that Obama's "recovery" was a mirage and that's why growth didn't exceed 2%.  For all his faults, Trump understands what motivates the private sector to invest and spend.  That's why you're seeing faster economic growth now, despite coming on the heels of a 9-year "recovery."    Will growth hit 5%-6% that he's talking about?  Absolutely not.  But anything over 3%  is a home run. 

[TPS]

12 hours ago, GG said:

 

One would think that the last 9 years was enough of a petrie dish to experiment on.

 

Our arguments always ended in the same place.  You think that the deficits themselves are expansionary, while my position is the expansions are correlated to the cause of the deficit.  If that deficit is caused by blow out spending, then don't hold your breath for an economic expansion.  If the deficit is caused by tax cuts, then the private sector is motivated to increase economic activity.

 

I've been consistently saying since 2009 that Obama's "recovery" was a mirage and that's why growth didn't exceed 2%.  For all his faults, Trump understands what motivates the private sector to invest and spend.  That's why you're seeing faster economic growth now, despite coming on the heels of a 9-year "recovery."    Will growth hit 5%-6% that he's talking about?  Absolutely not.  But anything over 3%  is a home run. 

1. Regardless of the method, increasing the deficit provides a short-term boost to demand and GDP, which is why I said Trump's plan could push growth to 3-4%, but it will be very short-lived since we are near the end of the business cycle. For example, Reagan's initial cuts went into effect when unemployment was 10%, and Bush2 began his term and cuts in the midst of a brief downturn. In both cases, there was a lot of room for growth post cuts/deficits.

2. I agree somewhat on the difference;  tax cuts in theory are supposed to affect behavior, but in practice they have had a very, very small impact over time. For example, growth during Bush2's terms was nearly 1% below historical average.