Republican Tax Plan (a nothingburger with cheese)

[ALF]

 The law limits Medicare cuts to 4% of its budget per year, or $25 billion of its $625-billion budget. Because the tax cut proposals the Senate was preparing to vote on late Friday would expand the deficit by about $1.5 trillion over 10 years, it’s likely to trigger the cuts.

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gop-social-security-20171130-story.html

 

The budget sequestration in 2013 refers to the automatic spending cuts to United States federal government spending in particular categories of outlays

The cuts were split evenly (by dollar amounts, not by percentages) between the defense and non-defense categories

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_sequestration_in_2013

 

High-ranking Republicans are hinting that, after their tax overhaul, the party intends to look at cutting spending on welfare, entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare, and other parts of the social safety net.

 

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said recently that he wants Republicans to focus in 2018 on reducing spending on government programs.

 

Last month, President Trump said welfare reform will “take place right after taxes, very soon, very shortly after taxes.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/01/gop-eyes-post-tax-cut-changes-to-welfare-medicare-and-social-security/

 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by ALF
added info

[Doc Brown]

Some things I'll be looking for as the House and Senate hammer out their differences.  Will there be a compromise on property taxes write off (House said $10,000 and Senate said $0)?  Will teachers be able to write off school supplies (House says no, Senate says up to $250)?  

[ALF]

Collins: Senate bill will include property-tax deduction

 

Under Collins's amendment, people who itemize their deductions will be able to deduct up to $10,000 in state and local property taxes. A similar provision was included in the House-passed bill to win over GOP House members from blue states such as New York and California.

 

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/362791-collins-senate-bill-will-include-property-tax-deduction

 

Senate GOP repeals ObamaCare mandate

 

The Senate tax bill must still be reconciled with House legislation that does not include the mandate’s repeal. But that is unlikely to be a major issue given support in the GOP conference for repealing the mandate.

 

Many experts and healthcare groups warn that repeal will destabilize ObamaCare markets, leading to premium increases or insurers simply dropping out of certain areas. 

 

Without a financial penalty under the mandate for lacking health coverage, there is less incentive for healthy people to sign up and balance out the costs of the sick

 

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/362838-senate-gop-repeals-obamacare-mandate

Edited December 2, 2017 by ALF
added info

[Tiberius]

Well, we know what the Dems will be running on in 2018, save Medicare, save SS and restore ficus all responsibility to government. 

 

 

I  also just wonder if Trump will lose a lot of Congressional Republican support after he signs the tax cuts. What use to them will he be? They might be ready to toss him to the wolves after they get what they want 

[3rdnlng]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Well, we know what the Dems will be running on in 2018, save Medicare, save SS and restore ficus all responsibility to government. 

 

 

I  also just wonder if Trump will lose a lot of Congressional Republican support after he signs the tax cuts. What use to them will he be? They might be ready to toss him to the wolves after they get what they want 

I think there are better ways to restore and grow the ficus tree or plant. Getting the government involved seems inappropriate but then again you dems are on a roll lately with inappropriate things.

[/dev/null]

5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I think there are better ways to restore and grow the ficus tree or plant. Getting the government involved seems inappropriate but then again you dems are on a roll lately with inappropriate things.

a ficus is technically Green, so in Democrats eyes it does need Government funding

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, /dev/null said:

a ficus is technically Green, so in Democrats eyes it does need Government funding

https://www.thespruce.com/grow-ficus-trees-1902757

[B-Large]

On 11/29/2017 at 12:48 PM, Tiberius said:

But she will own a ton of national debt! This tax plan is unpatriotic and hurts the country, only benefits the wealthy while saddling the nation with enormous debt for our children and grandchildren. And the way its being rammed through Congress with little to no debate, hearings and breathtaking lies is an attack on our republican norms. 

 

Shame on the GOP 

 

 

Hate to admit it, but T-Bone is right on this one.  Theoretical growth will or won't materialize, time will tell, but it won't matter because I'm almost certain Neocons will have us into a war with Iran or North Korea, and we know the War department spends whatever they want.  Job creation by small businesses will decline because of a tailspin in health insurance markets, people may be forced to abandon starting a business or leave the business they started just to have health coverage for their families. 

 

There re is nothing Conservative about the GOP anymore, there is not one ambitious or bold idea in these bills coming out of congress.  More of the same that got us where we are, drowning in debt and adding on big heaps every year.  

[Logic]

I would really love for anybody -- anybody at all -- to explain to me how what happened with this tax bill last night was okay. The last minute hand-written additions, the fact that many of said additions were literally being written by lobbyists, the fact that no one had any real time to read or debate this bill, the fact that even the people voting FOR it didn't know what was in it, the fact that it does cartoon-villain things like give tax breaks to private jet owners...This whole process was absolutely vile and a complete attack on common sense and democracy.

"The party of fiscal responsibility". Sure. 

 

[Koko78]

14 minutes ago, Logic said:

I would really love for anybody -- anybody at all -- to explain to me how what happened with this tax bill last night was okay. The last minute hand-written additions, the fact that many of said additions were literally being written by lobbyists, the fact that no one had any real time to read or debate this bill, the fact that even the people voting FOR it didn't know what was in it, the fact that it does cartoon-villain things like give tax breaks to private jet owners...This whole process was absolutely vile and a complete attack on common sense and democracy.

"The party of fiscal responsibility". Sure. 

 

 

Well, clearly they had to pass it so that they could know what was in it.

 

Were you this upset when Obamacare was passed in an even shadier way?

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Well, clearly they had to pass it so that they could know what was in it.

 

Were you this upset when Obamacare was passed in an even shadier way?

Hmmmm, according to Snopes.com:

"...the ACA was debated in three House committees and two Senate committees, and subject to hours of bipartisan debate that allowed for the introduction of amendments. Peterson told us in an e-mail that he 'can’t recall any major piece of legislation that was completely devoid of public forums of any kind, and that were crafted outside of the normal committee and subcommittee structure to this extent'.

Compare that to the absolute travesty that took place last night, where a last-minute 479 page amendment written by lobbyists in illegible pen was handed in and everyone was given 1 hour to read it. Not even close. Anyone else?

Oh, and:

In June and July 2009, with Democrats in charge, the Senate health committee spent nearly 60 hours over 13 days marking up the bill that became the Affordable Care Act. That September and October, the Senate Finance Committee worked on the legislation for eight days — its longest markup in two decades. It considered more than 130 amendments and held 79 roll-call votes. The full Senate debated the health care bill for 25 straight days before passing it on Dec. 24, 2009.

Aside from that, is your only argument in support of the bill a good bit of "Whataboutism"? Always point the finger elsewhere rather than defending the conduct of your guys.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Logic

[OrtonHearsaWho]

28 minutes ago, Logic said:

I would really love for anybody -- anybody at all -- to explain to me how what happened with this tax bill last night was okay. The last minute hand-written additions, the fact that many of said additions were literally being written by lobbyists, the fact that no one had any real time to read or debate this bill, the fact that even the people voting FOR it didn't know what was in it, the fact that it does cartoon-villain things like give tax breaks to private jet owners...This whole process was absolutely vile and a complete attack on common sense and democracy.

"The party of fiscal responsibility". Sure. 

 

 

I'd like to know something from those that agree with this bill - are there any benefits of cognitive dissonance other than the warmth of having your head up your a**.

[Deranged Rhino]

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

Hmmmm, according to Snopes.com:

 

Don't use Snopes. Be better than Snopes. 

[OrtonHearsaWho]

40 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Well, clearly they had to pass it so that they could know what was in it.

 

Were you this upset when Obamacare was passed in an even shadier way?

 

I honestly can't tell if that 1st sentence is genuine or sarcastic.

[Logic]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Don't use Snopes. Be better than Snopes. 

Okay, if you say so. But is the information that I provided, via that website, incorrect?

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Okay, if you say so. But is the information that I provided, via that website, incorrect?

 

How can I know? You didn't provide sources for the two paragraphs you put in. I don't read snopes, so I'm not going to check it there. The only source you provided is a link to a DPCC link (which again, isn't impartial on this issue).

 

Snopes is not impartial and shouldn't be relied upon as some sort of arbiter of truth. Be better than outsourcing your own fact checking ability to a faceless website.

[Logic]

Yeah, I mean...of what value would it be for senators to actually get a chance to read a bill before voting on it?

[3rdnlng]

Gee, didn't I see 2 empty chairs in the WH the other day? I think they had Pelosi's and Schumer's name on them.

[DC Tom]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah, I mean...of what value would it be for senators to actually get a chance to read a bill before voting on it?

 

That's funny, since that was the same complaint Republicans had about the ACA.  Which was dismissed with Pelosi's "We have to pass it to see what's in it."

 

The next issue you bring up should be that the Senate's bill didn't originate in the House, so now Congress has two separate bills that have to be reconciled in the Senate.  Because that was ALSO a complaint of the ACA.  

 

Is it wrong?  Yes.  But Democrats set the precedent, and shouldn't be surprised when it's suddenly used against them.  (See also: nuclear option, legislation by executive action.)

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

That's funny, since that was the same complaint Republicans had about the ACA.  Which was dismissed with Pelosi's "We have to pass it to see what's in it."

 

The next issue you bring up should be that the Senate's bill didn't originate in the House, so now Congress has two separate bills that have to be reconciled in the Senate.  Because that was ALSO a complaint of the ACA.  

 

Is it wrong?  Yes.  But Democrats set the precedent, and shouldn't be surprised when it's suddenly used against them.  (See also: nuclear option, legislation by executive action.)

 

These are only earth shattering concerns when someone of the opposite political persuasion does them. When it's your team it's for the greater good thus acceptable. 

 

Principles like that is why we're in the mess we're in as a country.