Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Spinning it? How do you figure? It's clear to me and by looking at his answer that he was concerned with his injury issues along with what Sammy was looking to get on the open market. The point wasn't that you "can't" sign him it is that you "won't" sign him. That's what "signability" is in this case. The Bills could have easily retained him if they wanted to. Hold on a second Kirby. They could have easily retained him past the option year by How? Franchising him? Paying a sum that they believe was to risky to pay? And they could have possibly been dealing with a discontent player situation holding out during camp, not all-in with what McD is trying to do. I take exception with that characterization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Spinning it? How do you figure? It's clear to me and by looking at his answer that he was concerned with his injury issues along with what Sammy was looking to get on the open market.I don't disagree. But signability means exactly what I said earlier "we are not going to pay him what he will command on the open market and do not value him enough to prevent him from reaching the open market." It's a "won't" sign him not a "can't." Â The Bills have plenty of money and the tag to ensure that Watkins didn't go anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 We signed a guy to be the highest defensive player in history (I think twice) in the last 5 years. Doesn't that bolster his argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 That's fake news. Every good team pays their stars. It's true every year, in every sport. In football it's especially true because of the hard cap. Every team spends the same amount of money. The money is allocated to players based on the contracts of their counterparts around the league. A star RB in Buffalo will get roughly the same as a star RB in Atlanta. Â Those "back loaded" contracts never catch up in football. The guy gets cut or extended. The biggest guarantees are at the beginning of the deal. That's not NE philosophy. They had two stars last year come up on contract years. Chandler Jones was traded to AZ and Jamie Collins traded to CLE. They didn't want to sign them at the money they were commanding so they traded them for value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) I don't disagree. But signability means exactly what I said earlier "we are not going to pay him what he will command on the open market and do not value him enough to prevent him from reaching the open market." It's a "won't" sign him not a "can't." Â The Bills have plenty of money and the tag to ensure that Watkins didn't go anywhere. Right, but now you are just parsing words. The underlying concern is valid, would you concede that point? Edited August 12, 2017 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Right, but now you are just parsing words. The underlying concern is valid, would you concede that point?It's not valid imo. The only thing preventing the Bills from retaining Watkins was their decision to retain Watkins. When they talk about "signability" that is not say that they "can't" sign him it's saying they "won't." Watkins is gong to get paid. No one is debating that but nothing was stopping the Bills from being that team to pay him other than "we don't think that he is worth _____."Â I guess tot he underlying concern I would be concerned about injuries. The Bills do have that medical information so there's that. In terms of going "all-in" with what McDermott is trying to do I'd like to see him coach a game before I care about his vision. I know that Sammy can play at this point but don't know if McDermott is good. I'm not just blindly following an unproven guy. I like what I've seen so far from him but there is a long way to go. Edited August 12, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Awful trade. Â Awful management. Another pair of !@#$s who think they are smarter then everyone. Â NE can do whatever they want. Â They've won Super Bowls. Whether you agree or not it was the correct move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 Yup and we arent winning and we were in cap teouble. See what I mean. Its not sustainable.We weren't in cap trouble. There's really no such thing as cap trouble unless you are utterly incompetent (which a few teams have proven to be). You can just keep kicking the can down the road pretty much forever. Teams have learned this and are doing it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) Awful trade. Â Awful management. Another pair of !@#$s who think they are smarter then everyone. Â NE can do whatever they want. Â They've won Super Bowls. LOL...you don't want to follow a model of success?Let's not do what NE does because it works. Edited August 12, 2017 by Teeflebees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 How do you figure? It does matter what response he will give, you've got your mind made up and will cry all season about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) How do you figure? I've already explained this: Sammy Watkins was equivalent to putting $10k rims on an 85 Ford Taurus. the bills got value instead of losing him to FA for nothing next year. Edited August 12, 2017 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 That's not NE philosophy. They had two stars last year come up on contract years. Chandler Jones was traded to AZ and Jamie Collins traded to CLE. They didn't want to sign them at the money they were commanding so they traded them for value. They've always carried a few star contracts-   They let those guys walk and paid Gilmore. They also carry contracts for gronk, Brady etc...  Unrelated but comes to mind as a curiosity  I actually wonder if in recent NFL history any team has turned over its top 4 receivers, top 3 corners, and starting safeties in one offseason  Kevon Seymour, colt Anderson, Charles Clay, nick o Leary and Brandon Tate are officially our only returning secondary players or pass catchers at this point probably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 They've always carried a few star contracts- They let those guys walk and paid Gilmore. They also carry contracts for gronk, Brady etc... Unrelated but comes to mind as a curiosity I actually wonder if in recent NFL history any team has turned over its top 4 receivers, top 3 corners, and starting safeties in one offseason Kevon Seymour, colt Anderson, Charles Clay, nick o Leary and Brandon Tate are officially our only returning secondary players or pass catchers at this point probably? Interesting point. Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 How do you even compare us to NE??? Â Just an absolute awful reach and take. I never compared us to NE geez dude...actually read what I write. Are you this dense or so jaded that you can't decipher? Â I said it's a model of success so why would we not want to follow it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 LOL...you don't want to follow a model of success? Let's not do what NE does because it works. They aren't remotely comparable. Plus they were very down on Collins when they traded him. The list of guys the Pats have kept is long, starting with Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 They've always carried a few star contracts-   They let those guys walk and paid Gilmore. They also carry contracts for gronk, Brady etc...  Unrelated but comes to mind as a curiosity  I actually wonder if in recent NFL history any team has turned over its top 4 receivers, top 3 corners, and starting safeties in one offseason  Kevon Seymour, colt Anderson, Charles Clay, nick o Leary and Brandon Tate are officially our only returning secondary players or pass catchers at this point probably? We've carried star contracts too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 They've always carried a few star contracts-   They let those guys walk and paid Gilmore. They also carry contracts for gronk, Brady etc...  Unrelated but comes to mind as a curiosity  I actually wonder if in recent NFL history any team has turned over its top 4 receivers, top 3 corners, and starting safeties in one offseason  Kevon Seymour, colt Anderson, Charles Clay, nick o Leary and Brandon Tate are officially our only returning secondary players or pass catchers at this point probably? Powell and LewisWe've carried star contracts too....The initial point was that carrying star contracts isn't a formula for sustained success. The reality is every team carries star contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 It's not valid imo. The only thing preventing the Bills from retaining Watkins was their decision to retain Watkins. When they talk about "signability" that is not say that they "can't" sign him it's saying they "won't." Watkins is gong to get paid. No one is debating that but nothing was stopping the Bills from being that team to pay him other than "we don't think that he is worth _____." Â I guess tot he underlying concern I would be concerned about injuries. The Bills do have that medical information so there's that. In terms of going "all-in" with what McDermott is trying to do I'd like to see him coach a game before I care about his vision. I know that Sammy can play at this point but don't know if McDermott is good. I'm not just blindly following an unproven guy. I like what I've seen so far from him but there is a long way to go. It may end up being the wrong decision, but I would hope that reasonable people can agree to disagree that their argument for making the trade they made was rooted in valid concerns from both a financial and injury/value aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 12, 2017 Author Share Posted August 12, 2017 It may end up being the wrong decision, but I would hope that reasonable people can agree to disagree that their argument for making the trade they made was rooted in valid concerns from both a financial and injury/value aspect.We certainly agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 We have no speed for a qb who is best at throwing deep. It is a group of 2 and 3 type WRs. In a West Coast Offense, these WR pieces fit okay. I agree, we are particularly slow but we aren't going to be taking many deep shots anyways so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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