OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 I agree. You are using sound logic to prove that there is no need for a new stadium. Especially one built on the backs of the taxpayers. The issue is that the NFL owners all want new stadiums across the board. That's why sound logic is missing from this debate. The sole purpose of new stadiums are to squeeze more cash out of the fans. This makes it hard for me to comprehend why anyone would want a new stadium in Buffalo. Problem is the average fan which is the premise on which this league was founded no longer matters. Corporate dollars and TV revenues made the average fan an irrelevant afterthought. The two most gluttonous pigs are Jones and Snyder who loathe revenue sharing, both in markets along with others that are self-sustaining because of corporate sponsors, higher per capita income than Buffalo as well as smaller markets and easily demand exorbitant suite prices as well as seat licenses.....Snyder once quipped when talking about the financial cash cow NFL, "WE have to realize what WE built here"....what did HE build?....he wrote a check in 1999 just like Jones did in 1989, BUYING their way into the fraternity...Buffalo/WNY market per capita could never support huge ticket price increases, seat licenses or major increase in suite prices....our 20 person corporate suite at The Hat is 75 grand BEFORE food, beverage, parking, transporation, etc....final tab is >100 grand....same suite in the pigs' venues would be 225 grand before the trimmings...we'd be out........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) I would hate for the Bills to ever leave Buffalo, but this story just confirms how taxpayers gets screwed time and time again when it comes to public financing for stadiums. I'd rather the Bills leave than the taxpayers of Buffalo, Erie County or New York get fleeced just to build a play pen for the rich owners of a sports franchise. Nevada Taxpayers, Please Bend Over How is this any different from the government passing on costs via postage stamp raises so they can pay their mail carriers 100K to walk around all day? Or a company passing on costs to consumers for their ridiculous CEO paychecks? There really isn't much difference, it's just something we get to vote on while the others we have no real say Edited May 31, 2017 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 How is this any different from the government passing on costs via postage stamp raises so they can pay their mail carriers 100K to walk around all day? Or a company passing on costs to consumers for their ridiculous CEO paychecks? There really isn't much difference, it's just something we get to vote on while the others we have no real say ...of course there's a difference.....if you can no longer afford Bills tix, you don't go.....if you can't afford stamp price increases or any other governmental increase, do you stop mailing and what's your alternative theoretically (ignore on-line payment opportunities for npw to answer your postage analogy)?.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 At this point in time, I see no need for the stadium to be replaced. However, when that time comes, I have no problem with the state footing a large percentage of the cost. I have no idea the economic impact of having an NFL team in the area does, but I am sure the State does. State income tax on 52 professional football players, coaches, and all supporting personnel to include stadium employees. Property tax collected by the same employees. Then the sales tax generated every home game, to include the estimated 12,000 (last I heard) Canadians who spend their hard earned money supporting the team as well. How much Tax do they collect for every beer I drink at the game? How much gasoline tax is collected from all those who need to fill up to get to the game and back home. I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on the services such as restaurants and hotels and the impact of those employees and the sales and income tax generated. When you think about it, it could be staggering. Ralph Wilson Stadium was built in 1973 for 22 Million. I would think that the state and local taxes collected every couple of years now, easily recovers their original investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 At this point in time, I see no need for the stadium to be replaced. However, when that time comes, I have no problem with the state footing a large percentage of the cost. I have no idea the economic impact of having an NFL team in the area does, but I am sure the State does. State income tax on 52 professional football players, coaches, and all supporting personnel to include stadium employees. Property tax collected by the same employees. Then the sales tax generated every home game, to include the estimated 12,000 (last I heard) Canadians who spend their hard earned money supporting the team as well. How much Tax do they collect for every beer I drink at the game? How much gasoline tax is collected from all those who need to fill up to get to the game and back home. I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on the services such as restaurants and hotels and the impact of those employees and the sales and income tax generated. When you think about it, it could be staggering. Ralph Wilson Stadium was built in 1973 for 22 Million. I would think that the state and local taxes collected every couple of years now, easily recovers their original investment. ...are you a NY resident?.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ...are you a NY resident?.......... Yes, I moved back to the area about 2 years ago. Are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Yes, I moved back to the area about 2 years ago. Are you? yup...and the income taxes and property taxes are killers..........life long New York State resident and what I pay is repulsive.....I think we are in the top 3 in the US..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 yup...and the income taxes and property taxes are killers..........life long New York State resident and what I pay is repulsive.....I think we are in the top 3 in the US..... Oh i agree, and how much income and property taxes are paid to NY state by just the players every year? That initial investment of 22 million is looking pretty small after 45 years. That is my whole point. The state makes a killing off of the team. It would be in their best interest to fund a large portion of the stadium when it is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Oh i agree, and how much income and property taxes are paid to NY state by just the players every year? That initial investment of 22 million is looking pretty small after 45 years. That is my whole point. The state makes a killing off of the team. It would be in their best interest to fund a large portion of the stadium when it is needed. ...if I am correct, athletes are subject to non-resident income taxes when they play in a State venue as well as local taxes in municipalities......so an NFL domiciled resident in the state of Florida (no income taxes) plays in Philadelphia, 1/16 of their income is subject to Pennsylvania state income taxes (3.7%) as well as City of Philadelphia local tax (don't know the rate-PA is usually .5% to 2%).....extortion......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) ...if I am correct, athletes are subject to non-resident income taxes when they play in a State venue as well as local taxes in municipalities......so an NFL domiciled resident in the state of Florida (no income taxes) plays in Philadelphia, 1/16 of their income is subject to Pennsylvania state income taxes (3.7%) as well as City of Philadelphia local tax (don't know the rate-PA is usually .5% to 2%).....extortion......... According to this article, NY gets a cut of the Dolphins players salary every time they play in Buffalo because Florida does not have any state income tax. So every time the Dolphins play in Buffalo. The players on both teams are taxed by NY state on their income. Again, NY is making a killing off of the Bills being in NY https://finance.yahoo.com/news/professional-athletes-big-league-tax-071447565.html Edited June 1, 2017 by OldNMBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I believe you are incorrect. I think what you are referring to is the away games. According to this article, NY gets a cut of the Dolphins players salary every time they play in Buffalo because Florida does not have any state income tax. So every time the Dolphins play in Buffalo. The players on both teams are taxed by NY state on their income. Again, NY is making a killing off of the Bills being in NY https://finance.yahoo.com/news/professional-athletes-big-league-tax-071447565.html ....yup....away games,...ludicrous right?.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ....yup....away games,...ludicrous right?.............. Crazy. NY must love the fact that Miami comes to town once a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Athletes pay in states where they have away games. This "jock tax" is a complete rip off (and SERIOUSLY complicates their taxes!). If a banker or CPA goes to another state for a deal, they don't pay state taxes there. Crazy. NY must love the fact that Miami comes to town once a year. It's all teams in all sports, not just the Dolphins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNMBillsFan Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Athletes pay in states where they have away games. This "jock tax" is a complete rip off (and SERIOUSLY complicates their taxes!). If a banker or CPA goes to another state for a deal, they don't pay state taxes there. It's all teams in all sports, not just the Dolphins. "Jock tax" assessments to players by away-game jurisdictions are credited back to the player in their state of residence but only to the maximum rate in their home state. Players who live in the nine states without state income tax (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, Tennessee, Texas, South Dakota, Washington and Wyoming) pay full fare on "jock tax" assessments, Raiola says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 "Jock tax" assessments to players by away-game jurisdictions are credited back to the player in their state of residence but only to the maximum rate in their home state. Players who live in the nine states without state income tax (Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, Tennessee, Texas, South Dakota, Washington and Wyoming) pay full fare on "jock tax" assessments, Raiola says.[/size] Interesting, and must lead to a hefty tax prep fee every year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I would like a new stadium because traditions form? That means football is more important than the stadium. So tell me again why I would benefit from a new stadium? My response has NOTHING to do with any 'benefit' you would get from a new stadium. My point is that the stadium you are currently fond of hanging on to was at one time just hole in the ground, built on the cheap, in what was widely thought to be an architectural low point in arena/stadium venue design. I'm pretty sure you would come to grow fond of a new stadium over time as well. Notice that I did NOT use the word 'benefit' in this response either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) I'd be ok with taxpayer money as a loan, where after a tax to repay the loan with reasonable interest was agreed by the stadium operations and or foootball team, if they are the same organization. I'd require multi-use facility planning to return faster. Edited June 1, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 ...no owner in his right mind would break rank and privately fund a stadium 100%.....one already has. Kraft built his stsdium with private money. Mass. kicked in 80 mill for infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I enjoy New Era Field, so yes it is a waste. I wouldn't enjoy a new stadium any more than New Era. In fact probably less. Tailgating would be dead, and I wouldn't enjoy the actual game any more than I do now. Just an honest question, have you every been to another stadium to watch a sporting event? If so, a new one? I think the experience is WAY better then New Era Field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) Just an honest question, have you every been to another stadium to watch a sporting event? If so, a new one? I think the experience is WAY better then New Era Field. Not in the NFL because I wouldn't want to pay the price it cost to watch a game at a new stadium. I only watch the game. I don't see how a new stadium would enhance my experience. I don't have club suites, and I don't desire fancy in stadium cuisine or nightclubs. I would go to a new stadium to watch a football game, the same thing I do at older stadiums. Edited June 1, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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