Meathead Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 They deserve credit for recognizing it was a mistake and not forcing it through like a bunch of mindless sheep because "being quick is more important than being right." It represents a return to basic legislative functionality. Admittedly, it's only one incident, and there's no guarantee it'll become a trend. But...baby steps. you are very generous to give them that one doesnt look to me like they pulled it bc they realized it was a mistake of health care legislation philosophy or process. they pulled it bc they didnt want to be embarrassed with a failed repeal effort i see this as still playing very small ball. but if you want to attribute that to some greater wisdom i guess we will just have to see where they go from here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieJizzle22 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 I've read online that some people think that Trump is playing the media like a fiddle given what's happened today. Thoughts? Was this loss perhaps planned on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 The political implications ARE the substance. You think any of this has ever been about health care? That's the problem. The plane's about to crash into the mountain and we're more concerned with who's sitting in the pilot's seat than with changing course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieJizzle22 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 [This is an automated response.] Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.8. They deserve credit for recognizing it was a mistake and not forcing it through like a bunch of mindless sheep because "being quick is more important than being right." It represents a return to basic legislative functionality. Admittedly, it's only one incident, and there's no guarantee it'll become a trend. But...baby steps. I agree with this. Let's hope they learn their lesson and try to create a better bill. We can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 (edited) That's the problem. The plane's about to crash into the mountain and we're more concerned with who's sitting in the pilot's seat than with changing course.Agreed. Is it better for the Repubs to suck it up and work with the Dems to fix it? Or should they let it crash and burn? I wanna know what you guys think they should do from here. It seems as if the current administration isn't going to draft a new bill anytime soon. Edited March 24, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Agreed. Is it better for the Repubs to suck it up and work with the Dems to fix it? Or should they let it crash and burn? I wanna know what you guys think they should do from here. It seems as if the current administration isn't going to draft a new bill anytime soon. In short, tear it down. Gut the bureacracy and regulations and get the Federal government out of the health care business. It would have to be done gradually but it would be the most humane approach. It would make better medical services more affordable and accessible to more people. Simultaneously it would cut the chain to an economic anchor that's dragging us down. The results would be amazing. It would be a medical and economic miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Respectfully, would taking health insurance from 20 million people be the most humane approach? What would address the fact that healthcare costs and premiums have been rising for decades? I absolutely agree that the current way is unsustainable, and the people who experienced 200% premium hikes to make up for the newly insured is unfair to them. Edited March 25, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 John Boehner knew what was up months ago. I'm sure he's off somewhere laughing and shaking his head knowing that striking a deal that could pass congress and become law is not something that the Republican conference is capable of doing. Former House Speaker John Boehner predicted on Thursday that a full repeal and replace of Obamacare is “not what’s going to happen” and that Republicans will instead just make some fixes to the health care law. Earlier in the panel discussion, Boehner said he “started laughing” when Republicans started talking about moving lightning fast on repeal and then coming up with an alternative. "And secondly, as I told some of the Republican leaders when they asked, I said, if you pass repeal without replace you'll never pass replace, because they will never ever agree on what the bill should be. Perfect always becomes the enemy of the good,” Boehner said. Boehner said what Republicans ultimately come up with could share a lot of the same qualities with Obamacare. "Most of the Affordable Care Act, in the framework, is going to stay there: coverage for kids up to age 26, covering those with preexisting conditions. All of that's going to be there. Subsidies for those who can't afford it, who aren't on Medicaid, who I call the working poor, subsidies for them will be there," Boehner said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Respectfully, would taking health insurance from 20 million people be the most humane approach? What would address the fact that healthcare costs and premiums have been rising for decades? I absolutely agree that the current way is unsustainable, and the people who experienced 200% premium hikes to make up for the newly insured is unfair to them. I don't view it as taking anything away, but rather as ceasing to provide it, but I doubt that does much to alleviate your concerns. Part of the problem with entitlements is people become dependent on them and societal institutions adapt to their existence. As such it's not as easy as just eliminating them with the stroke of a pen. That's why I'd do it gradually. I attribute the rapid growth in health care costs over the last few decades to the intrusion of the Federal government into the market. If we followed my plan the cost of basic medical services would plummet. There would be some painful adjustments along the way, and it's likely that a small minority of people may be slightly worse off as a result, but in the long run it would be a great benefit to the overwhelming majority of people, both wrt access to affordable healthcare and economic prosperity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 What's sad is everyone is focusing on the political implications with virtually no discussion of the substance. That's funny. Have you seen what passes for liberal substance these days? Here's a hint: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I don't view it as taking anything away, but rather as ceasing to provide it, but I doubt that does much to alleviate your concerns. Part of the problem with entitlements is people become dependent on them and societal institutions adapt to their existence. As such it's not as easy as just eliminating them with the stroke of a pen. That's why I'd do it gradually. I attribute the rapid growth in health care costs over the last few decades to the intrusion of the Federal government into the market. If we followed my plan the cost of basic medical services would plummet. There would be some painful adjustments along the way, and it's likely that a small minority of people may be slightly worse off as a result, but in the long run it would be a great benefit to the overwhelming majority of people, both wrt access to affordable healthcare and economic prosperity. Thanks for the solid response. I personally don't think Obamacare is going to fail and we are going to be stuck with it. I'm with you on entitlements, they encourage dependence and laziness. Social programs and entitlements should only be kept for the extremely poor, disabled or elderly. We have to get the leeches off of the system to encourage hard work and self dependence again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaoulDuke79 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I don't know a whole lot about the whole thing. I know my health insurance went up when the affordable care Act was implemented. From what I can tell it's like most subsidized systems, where the wealth is redistributed. I'm not going broke over it so I don't care about whole lot. My main gripe is that the Healthcare and insurance industry are a bunch of crooks. A procedure should be a standard fee. Having your tonsils out in Chicago shouldn't cost more than having your tonsils out in tupelo. There shouldn't be any back and forth between the insurance provider and the hospital. They need to standardize all this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I don't know a whole lot about the whole thing. I know my health insurance went up when the affordable care Act was implemented. From what I can tell it's like most subsidized systems, where the wealth is redistributed. I'm not going broke over it so I don't care about whole lot. My main gripe is that the Healthcare and insurance industry are a bunch of crooks. A procedure should be a standard fee. Having your tonsils out in Chicago shouldn't cost more than having your tonsils out in tupelo. There shouldn't be any back and forth between the insurance provider and the hospital. They need to standardize all this crap. The main problem with healthcare prices aren't because of the insurers but rather the underlying price of medical care. Price transparency would go a long way in helping drive down rates. You literally can get an MRI in one location for $500 and go to another medical provider a few miles down the road for $2000. That's why HSA's would be a good idea, if you could allow people to have more control of where their hard dollars would go, that would encourage more consumers to shop around for services rather than just going to whatever network provider is accepted by the insurer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) I don't know a whole lot about the whole thing. I know my health insurance went up when the affordable care Act was implemented. From what I can tell it's like most subsidized systems, where the wealth is redistributed. I'm not going broke over it so I don't care about whole lot. My main gripe is that the Healthcare and insurance industry are a bunch of crooks. A procedure should be a standard fee. Having your tonsils out in Chicago shouldn't cost more than having your tonsils out in tupelo. There shouldn't be any back and forth between the insurance provider and the hospital. They need to standardize all this crap.🍺🍺🍺 Cheers and amen. Health insurance companies, big pharma, medical equipment companies and their lobbyists are a major part of the problem imo. No one puts them in check. We are one of the only major countries that doesn't standardize and regulate healthcare costs. In countries like Japan, you see a list of prices for every treatment, medicine and procedure. Those same prices are standard for every hospital and clinic. It's crazy we don't do it here. Another issue is how the doctors in the US can be sued for malpractice, so naturally they charge more to cover their back end. Other countries protect their doctors from this kind of lawsuit, but they also make less money and lose their license after repeated negative results. To go along with doctors and surgeons making less in other countries, the government also helps them with their medical school. France has an awesome idea about medical ID cards, similar to a drivers license. Your whole medical history is downloaded and stored onto this card every time you receive treatment, starting when you are a child. This promotes synergy and coordination when you receive care at different facilities. They can pull up your whole medical history, allergies and prescription use immediately. Saving money in the long run. Edited March 25, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 The main problem with healthcare prices aren't because of the insurers but rather the underlying price of medical care. Price transparency would go a long way in helping drive down rates. You literally can get an MRI in one location for $500 and go to another medical provider a few miles down the road for $2000. That's why HSA's would be a good idea, if you could allow people to have more control of where their hard dollars would go, that would encourage more consumers to shop around for services rather than just going to whatever network provider is accepted by the insurer. That's also why I tend to shop around and try to negotiate my own fees and submit them myself. Unfortunately, oft-times doctors don't like it. And for some things, the price does reflect the quality. I've been paying a good dentist good money for the past 10 years, after a series of "affordable" dentists wrecked a couple of teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I completely agree. They'll take their lumps in the media, but the last time a bunch of elected sheep passed a **** bill because they were unable to think for themselves, they woke up in charge of, well, you know.... This won't hurt the right NEAR as much as the left hopes. It'll just take time for their whining to pass. While I'm happy they didn't pass a crappier version of Obamacare just to pass something, what you witnessed wasn't a backbone. It was a lack of leadership in the GOP. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 While I'm happy they didn't pass a crappier version of Obamacare just to pass something, what you witnessed wasn't a backbone. It was a lack of leadership in the GOP. Plain and simple. It was something of both. Certain GOP members of the House clearly had the backbone to not toe the party line and pass something that was arrant bull ****... ...which, again, is a nice change. Just compare it to how the ACA was passed, or how the Gorsuch nomination is going. Congresscritters having the backbone to hold their party accountable for their bull **** is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Just suck it up younger generation and pay the premiums. You'll get old someday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 It was something of both. Certain GOP members of the House clearly had the backbone to not toe the party line and pass something that was arrant bull ****... ...which, again, is a nice change. Just compare it to how the ACA was passed, or how the Gorsuch nomination is going. Congresscritters having the backbone to hold their party accountable for their bull **** is a good thing. Agreed. Not being a follower is important and refreshing. Maybe one day we can elect actual leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Trump vows ‘insurance for everybody’ in Obamacare replacement plan By Robert Costa and Amy Goldstein January 15 Washington Post President-elect Donald Trump said in a weekend interview that he is nearing completion of a plan to replace President Obama’s signature health-care law with the goal of “insurance for everybody,” while also vowing to force drug companies to negotiate directly with the government on prices in Medicare and Medicaid. Trump said his plan for replacing most aspects of Obama’s health-care law is all but finished. Although he was coy about its details — “lower numbers, much lower deductibles” — he said he is ready to unveil it alongside Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.). https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-insurance-for-everybody-in-obamacare-replacement-plan/2017/01/15/5f2b1e18-db5d-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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