JohnBonhamRocks Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I need to see more from Watkins in the way of consistency and availability (the best ability) to call him top 5 talent. He'd be lucky to crack top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Really? When healthy for sure. Maybe Odell but top 3-5 easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I think Jones, Brown, Green are the top 3 receivers in the league. You can have a discussion after that.... OBJ, Dez Bryant, Mike Evans, Hopkins, Jordy Nelson (criminally underrated), Watkins, Amari Cooper, Demaryius Thomas, Larry Fitz.... there are plenty you can make an argument for at #4 and #5. I think there are fewer left tackles you can make a legitimate argument for being better than Cordy Glenn than there are receivers you can make an argument for over Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedGame Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) Just for giggles, what players on the Patriots* squad or the Falcons squad would you rate as top 5 at their positions? I don't know those rosters that well, but I'd say maybe these names: Pats* Brady Gronk Falcons Julio Jones Mack Edited March 22, 2017 by WickedGame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 this isn't about projecting what if's......this is about actual 2016 past performance incognito is Top 5 LG without a doubt McCoy is Top 5-10 RB ( splitting hairs, very tough competition) Sammy aint chit YET....dude cant stay healthy Dareus isn't top 10 amongst DT......hell, kyle is better than him. dareus is Top 10 most overpaid !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Really? Yes, really. Size IMO is talent, and that's why I think I like Evans and Green too. Green is probably worth the discussion, but Evans is missing the speed and route-running ability to be considered top-5 talent IMO. On pure talent alone, I would call the top-5 as Julio, Demaryius Thomas, Sammy, and then Beckham and Brown because their other attributes aside from size are so exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 this isn't about projecting what if's......this is about actual 2016 past performance incognito is Top 5 LG without a doubt McCoy is Top 5-10 RB ( splitting hairs, very tough competition) Sammy aint chit YET....dude cant stay healthy Dareus isn't top 10 amongst DT......hell, kyle is better than him. dareus is Top 10 most overpaid !! I took it about "talent." Not performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Can't put watkins on this list, sorry. Injury prone. McCoy is it in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 this isn't about projecting what if's......this is about actual 2016 past performance incognito is Top 5 LG without a doubt McCoy is Top 5-10 RB ( splitting hairs, very tough competition) Sammy aint chit YET....dude cant stay healthy Dareus isn't top 10 amongst DT......hell, kyle is better than him. dareus is Top 10 most overpaid !! He easily outpaced the rest of the NFL in productivity the final 9 games of 2015, which just so happened to coincide with a major uptick in targets. For 2014-2015, he lead the entire NFL in yards per target. When he's on the field, he's top-5 in terms of production. Case-in-point: One of these sets of numbers is Julio Jones' production in his first 3 NFL seasons, the other is Sammy Watkins... 34 games played, 285 targets, 174 receptions, 2,737 yards, 20 TDs, 42 receptions of 20+ yards, 15 receptions of 40+ yards, 115 1st downs 37 games played, 275 targets, 153 receptions, 2,459 yards, 17 TDs, 36 receptions of 20+ yards, 13 receptions of 40+ yards, 108 1st downs One player played with Matt Ryan in an offense that ranked 4th, 8th, and 3rd in the NFL in passing attempts. The other played with EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor in an offense that ranked 13th, 31st, and 32nd in the NFL in passing attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Just for giggles, what players on the Patriots* squad or the Falcons squad would you rate as top 5 at their positions? I don't know those rosters that well, but I'd say maybe these names: Pats* Brady Gronk Falcons Julio Jones Mack Good Question: Pats Brady Gronk Hightower Edelman (slot) McCourty Falcons Julio Mack Trufant (when healthy) Beasley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Good Question: Pats Brady Gronk Hightower Edelman (slot) McCourty Falcons Julio Mack Trufant (when healthy) Beasley You're forgetting Levitre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not at the table Karlos Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Ryan Denney and Shaud Williams ...if they were still playing no idea why but shaud Williams has come up in three different conversations I've had this week. Top 5 at position. Watkins. Dareus. Shady. DiMarco. Incognito. Maybe glenn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 He easily outpaced the rest of the NFL in productivity the final 9 games of 2015, which just so happened to coincide with a major uptick in targets. For 2014-2015, he lead the entire NFL in yards per target. When he's on the field, he's top-5 in terms of production. Case-in-point: One of these sets of numbers is Julio Jones' production in his first 3 NFL seasons, the other is Sammy Watkins... 34 games played, 285 targets, 174 receptions, 2,737 yards, 20 TDs, 42 receptions of 20+ yards, 15 receptions of 40+ yards, 115 1st downs 37 games played, 275 targets, 153 receptions, 2,459 yards, 17 TDs, 36 receptions of 20+ yards, 13 receptions of 40+ yards, 108 1st downs One player played with Matt Ryan in an offense that ranked 4th, 8th, and 3rd in the NFL in passing attempts. The other played with EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, and Tyrod Taylor in an offense that ranked 13th, 31st, and 32nd in the NFL in passing attempts. That's relatively irrelevant if they saw similar #'s of targets though, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 That's relatively irrelevant if they saw similar #'s of targets though, no? I agree that the number one predictor of productivity for a WR is targets. I do think, however, that "quality of targets" (if you will permit me to make up a phrase) contributes a measure of context that cannot be quantified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 You're forgetting Levitre! I was waiting for someone to say Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I agree that the number one predictor of productivity for a WR is targets. I do think, however, that "quality of targets" (if you will permit me to make up a phrase) contributes a measure of context that cannot be quantified To be blunt, you think that Julio was probably getting better passes than Watkins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) McCoy and Incognito are both 5, Dareus as a NT might be there. You guys who think Sammy is top 5 are off your rocker. I don't even think he's top 15 yet. He's mainly potential, fingers crossed this is the year the 16 game production matches that potential. Edited March 22, 2017 by TheElectricCompany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 McCoy and Incognito are both 5, Dareus as a NT might be there. You guys who think Sammy is top 5 are off your rocker. I don't even think he's top 15 yet. He's mainly potential, fingers crossed this is the year the 16 game production matches that potential. There is not a team in the NFL that he wouldn't start for. Not one. And maybe three teams in the league where he wouldn't be the clear #1 once he was signed (Atlanta, Pittsburgh... maybe Cinci). Everyone in the league thinks highly of Sammy, that says a lot about his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Yes, really. Green is probably worth the discussion, but Evans is missing the speed and route-running ability to be considered top-5 talent IMO. On pure talent alone, I would call the top-5 as Julio, Demaryius Thomas, Sammy, and then Beckham and Brown because their other attributes aside from size are so exceptional. Huh? Production is the ultimate decider of a players worth, not some undefinable "talent". I think the list of top tier receivers (OBJ, Brown, AJ Green, Julio, Demaryius Thomas) is pretty clear based on years of elite numbers. Plus, you're casually looking over guys like TY Hilton, Emmanuel Sanders, Brandin Cooks and Amari Cooper, who are just below that top shelf but still damn good. Guys that have smoked Sammy where it matters most - on the field. Sammy > OBJ and Brown in anything? Frankly, he can't hold either of those guys jock straps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Huh? Production is the ultimate decider of a players worth, not some undefinable "talent". I think the list of top tier receivers (OBJ, Brown, AJ Green, Julio, Demaryius Thomas) is pretty clear based on years of elite numbers. Plus, you're casually looking over guys like TY Hilton, Emmanuel Sanders, Brandin Cooks and Amari Cooper, who are just below that top shelf but still damn good. Guys that have smoked Sammy where it matters most - on the field. Sammy > OBJ and Brown in anything? Frankly, he can't hold either of those guys jock straps. But that's what the topic is about. No one is arguing total production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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