HappyDays Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Both of those QB's have hit close to those heights before in their careers. It's not like Matt Ryan was just scraping by as a starter for 6 years. Palmer had a couple down years in Oakland but also had some great years in Cincy. I think there's a point of diminishing returns. Sure but then you have to acknowledge Tyrod had a very good season in 2015. If he can be that efficient again we can win a Super Bowl with a top 5 defense - an no not just any QB can win a Super Bowl with a top 5 defense. You need a baseline somewhere in between Tyrod's 2015 and 2016. There's a whole class of QBs that everyone forgets in these discussions. It's the Matt Staffords and Joe Flaccos of the world. Those QBs rise and fall. Some seasons they aren't good enough, other seasons they are in the top 10. For all we know Tyrod would play like a superstar in the playoffs. You have to acknowledge that possibility. It isn't like Tyrod has shown nothing. He has clearly shown potential. I don't even need him to get better than he was in 2015. If he can throw 50% more passes with about the same efficiency, that's very solid QB play. It doesn't mean we have to stop searching for a consistent top 10 guy or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Sure but then you have to acknowledge Tyrod had a very good season in 2015. If he can be that efficient again we can win a Super Bowl with a top 5 defense - an no not just any QB can win a Super Bowl with a top 5 defense. You need a baseline somewhere in between Tyrod's 2015 and 2016. There's a whole class of QBs that everyone forgets in these discussions. It's the Matt Staffords and Joe Flaccos of the world. Those QBs rise and fall. Some seasons they aren't good enough, other seasons they are in the top 10. For all we know Tyrod would play like a superstar in the playoffs. You have to acknowledge that possibility. It isn't like Tyrod has shown nothing. He has clearly shown potential. I don't even need him to get better than he was in 2015. If he can throw 50% more passes with about the same efficiency, that's very solid QB play. It doesn't mean we have to stop searching for a consistent top 10 guy or whatever. Tyrod Taylor is not in the discussion with quarterbacks like Stafford and Flacco. Flacco isn't great but he is good and delivered in the playoffs. Stafford regularly wins games in the 4th quarter. Tyrod Taylor has to be hidden and the Bills have to hope they are not in a close game in the 4th quarter where they need to pass the ball. Tyrod Taylor is a bottom level starter that is comparable to a Trevor Siemian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Here's my closing statement for the radical Taylorheads. Just remember we couldn't acquire Romo or MIKE GLENNON, so now Tyrod is back. Let's temper that enthusiasm a few notches. Couldn't or wouldn't ? Neither of Us know that answer. So we kept the best option regardless. Lets just roll with that perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Tyrod Taylor is not in the discussion with quarterbacks like Stafford and Flacco. Flacco isn't great but he is good and delivered in the playoffs. Stafford regularly wins games in the 4th quarter. Stanford "regularly" wins games in the 4th quarter? As of 2012 (could not find updated stats) he had a less than 50% career win percentage in 4th quarter comeback scenarios: http://www.footballnation.net/content/captain-comeback-career-records-the-clutch-for-active-qbs/16571/ I'm sure it's gotten better but in 2012 Aaron Rodgers had a career 4th quarter comeback win percentage of 14.3%. Maybe this isn't the best measurement. Oh and Flacco played well in the playoffs but he had to actually get there first. How do you know what Tyrod looks like in the playoffs? I would love to find out. Hopefully we get our defense back on track and we will see. Flacco has had awful years, like this past season he had the #1 overall defense in yards and missed the playoffs even though he's in a mediocre at best division. I mean if every team followed your QB philosophy there would be about 20 QBs drafted in the 1st round every year. It isn't feasible. Edited March 26, 2017 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 You may have been one. Do I misremember or were there not people saying he put up Hall of Fame numbers in 2015? There, that's phrased better at least. What we argued was that if Taylor managed to replicate his 2015 production every single year for the rest of his career, he'd be in the HOF. And that the discussion of some that they would need to see an increase in his production aligned with something like what Carr did from year 1 to year 2 was absolutely preposterous. And that there would almost certainly actually be some kind of dip in his production simply because of how well he produced in 2015. That was what we said, not that he was inevitably a HOFer because of one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Neither is getting Tyrod at a much lower price. It only makes his suckatude more tolerable because he is cheaper. Better he won't be. Tyrod Taylor is your QB for at least the next 2 years.....deal with it or find another team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Tyrod Taylor. I bring it up only to illustrate the lengths of hyperbole some fans will go to exalt him. Odd that you think something that's about as factual as it gets is hyperbole. You know what that word means, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Odd that you think something that's about as factual as it gets is hyperbole. You know what that word means, right? How is saying that his 2015 numbers would have gotten him into the Hall of Fame in any possible way factual? It's your guess, and a bad one, but it's about as far from factual as a statement can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 How is saying that his 2015 numbers would have gotten him into the Hall of Fame in any possible way factual? It's your guess, and a bad one, but it's about as far from factual as a statement can get. I honestly dont agree with the HOF stuff Transplant has put out there (but I respect the hell out of the way you justify your opinions transplant) Its just the anti taylors are like on the polar opposite of this crap TT is a middle level NFL qb starter These guys are not easy to find..... Top 5 qbs are IMPOSSIBLE to find....literally only one so so often......so many never make it....some have good seasons and fizzle....... We should keep drafting qbs While drafting qbs we shoudl stay true to the value of the draft board.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Sure but then you have to acknowledge Tyrod had a very good season in 2015. If he can be that efficient again we can win a Super Bowl with a top 5 defense - an no not just any QB can win a Super Bowl with a top 5 defense. You need a baseline somewhere in between Tyrod's 2015 and 2016. There's a whole class of QBs that everyone forgets in these discussions. It's the Matt Staffords and Joe Flaccos of the world. Those QBs rise and fall. Some seasons they aren't good enough, other seasons they are in the top 10. For all we know Tyrod would play like a superstar in the playoffs. You have to acknowledge that possibility. It isn't like Tyrod has shown nothing. He has clearly shown potential. I don't even need him to get better than he was in 2015. If he can throw 50% more passes with about the same efficiency, that's very solid QB play. It doesn't mean we have to stop searching for a consistent top 10 guy or whatever. He had a decent season, yes. Lots of QB's can win Superbowl with a top 5 defense. Peyton Manning had almost twice as many picks as TD's when he won. He had 2 good drives a game in the playoffs. Saying that TT is good enough to win a Superbowl with an elite defense means nothing. Mark Sanchez was 1 game away! Flacco and Stafford have shown the ability to go out there and win a game with their arm. TT has not. They are streaky, yes but any given Sunday they can go out a destroy a team from the pocket. Flacco and Stafford > T all day every day. Edited March 26, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Yes. Unequivocally. Well, if you think the HOF is keeping out a QB who passes for 3500 yards, 23 TDs, 7 INTs while maintaining a passer Rating of 99.4 which is 3rd all time at the moment and adds 650 yards and 5 TDs on the ground every year he plays, can you explain why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 He had a decent season, yes. Lots of QB's can win Superbowl with a top 5 defense. Peyton Manning had almost twice as many picks as TD's when he won. He had 2 good drives a game in the playoffs. Saying that TT is good enough to win a Superbowl with an elite defense means nothing. Mark Sanchez was 1 game away! I'd argue it's eminently harder to win a Superbowl with a guy like Taylor than it is to find top 5 QB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Well, if you think the HOF is keeping out a QB who passes for 3500 yards, 23 TDs, 7 INTs while maintaining a passer Rating of 99.4 which is 3rd all time at the moment and adds 650 yards and 5 TDs on the ground every year he plays, can you explain why? What QB did this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Well, if you think the HOF is keeping out a QB who passes for 3500 yards, 23 TDs, 7 INTs while maintaining a passer Rating of 99.4 which is 3rd all time at the moment and adds 650 yards and 5 TDs on the ground every year he plays, can you explain why? I literally can't LOL at this enough. He threw for 3000 yards, 20 TDs and 6 INTs. You're just making numbers up to support your argument. It's totally self serving and deliberately confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I literally can't LOL at this enough. He threw for 3000 yards, 20 TDs and 6 INTs. You're just making numbers up to support your argument. It's totally self serving and deliberately confusing. Always outrageous. The "extrapolated" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I'd argue it's eminently harder to win a Superbowl with a guy like Taylor than it is to find top 5 QB... Wait.....what? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I literally can't LOL at this enough. He threw for 3000 yards, 20 TDs and 6 INTs. You're just making numbers up to support your argument. It's totally self serving and deliberately confusing. No. You see, this has been your problem all along. You didn't understand then what I was saying and you don't understand now what I'm saying. But apparently I'm being "cantankerous and insulting," so I won't try to explain and run the risk of stepping on the toes of folks who can't engage in civil and rational disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) There, that's phrased better at least. What we argued was that if Taylor managed to replicate his 2015 production every single year for the rest of his career, he'd be in the HOF. And that the discussion of some that they would need to see an increase in his production aligned with something like what Carr did from year 1 to year 2 was absolutely preposterous. And that there would almost certainly actually be some kind of dip in his production simply because of how well he produced in 2015. That was what we said, not that he was inevitably a HOFer because of one season. Well, if you think the HOF is keeping out a QB who passes for 3500 yards, 23 TDs, 7 INTs while maintaining a passer Rating of 99.4 which is 3rd all time at the moment and adds 650 yards and 5 TDs on the ground every year he plays, can you explain why? No. You see, this has been your problem all along. You didn't understand then what I was saying and you don't understand now what I'm saying. But apparently I'm being "cantankerous and insulting," so I won't try to explain and run the risk of stepping on the toes of folks who can't engage in civil and rational disagreement. These numbers are not the same. You cite his 2015 production, then make up numbers that are not his 2015 production. I don't think you understand what you're saying, TBH. Edited March 26, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) FC, you weren't there for this entire discussion last year and 808 can't remember it, but the argument was a per game basis since some years Taylor would likely play a full 16 games, like this year if he weren't pulled. Glad you 2 are getting your LOLs though, even if you have to take a discussion out of context to do it. Edited March 26, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 We just are not gonna agree on this. And yes....I was hopeful for a strong D under RR without realizing how inflexible he was in his defensive concepts. John, you love everything Bills when it happens. Rex, Tyrod, EJ, Spiller. I'll bet if someone were to go back far enough they'd find you cheering the Maybin pick. There's nothing wrong with that, it's who you are. Folks just need to keep this in mind when reading what you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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