BaaadThingsMan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Watkins B - he doesn't throw to himself Woods C - one of the best blocking wrs in the game Goodwin D - meh, made a few plays Hunter C - TD machine, when targeted You can F the rest but the overall grade is more like a C- or D not F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Unfortunately, this has been the case for many years with the Bills. Most of the years during the playoff drought, the Bills have had only one good WR while the rest were scrubs. Many Bills fans on here knew that the Bills needed another WR, but instead of drafting one in the early rounds, the Bills drafted defense for the first three rounds. We also knew the Bills needed a RT. If anything frustrates me, it's that one. But when you're building a ground and pound team, you draft defense. Finding a backup receiver to play behind Woods and Watkins is not the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtebow15 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I like receivers like the Steelers corp that block well so Woods has some value. The biggest problem is that Watkins is too brittle to count on so you need another excellent receiver to account for that. I like Tate as a special teams guy and he can do some receiving but we definitely need a couple. The unit grade was more like a C- I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 He's not a #2 let alone a legit #2. He's a good rotational guy. The Bills should have signed him for that but that doesn't mean he's better than he is. He's a piece like Amendola, Floyd, Malcolm Mitchell on a team that has 2 Pro Bowl caliber TEs. He's, at best, their 4th option when they are healthy. Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 How could Whaley have gotten this unit SO badly wrong? "Final Overall Grade F: This unit is void of talent and requires a complete rebuild for 2017" http://www.billsdaily.com/gameday/index.shtml Dump everybody except Sammy, rookie contract, and start all over. And the problem I have is that most knew before the season started, this unit was a mess... Run first Offense Unconventional QB Wait til you see Bob Woods lighting it up with a real QB ans Modern Offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? 1. I think like many here, the grade was a bit harsh: D + 2. You can't grade a receiver on ability, only production: Watkins get a D- 3. Injuries were a given before the season started based on history: see Watkins and Goodwin. 4. This is a passing league, and the Bills ended up 31 in passing yards/game. 5. "Glass" Goodwin experiment: Done Draft someone - please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1. I think like many here, the grade was a bit harsh: D + 2. You can't grade a receiver on ability, only production: Watkins get a D- 3. Injuries were a given before the season started based on history: see Watkins and Goodwin. 4. This is a passing league, and the Bills ended up 31 in passing yards/game. 5. "Glass" Goodwin experiment: Done Draft someone - please... Glad you dont do this for a living. Curious what is your QB grade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? They think that he was around the third or fourth most important player to focus on defensively. He slipped through some zones and Brady threw the ball to him because no one was near him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? I bet not alot seeing they hardly covered him and he was running open a ton (not to his credit either) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Glad you dont do this for a living. Curious what is your QB grade? Not exactly sure what you disagree with. Tell you something else, I don't trade away picks to move up a few spots and get Watkins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Not exactly sure what you disagree with. Tell you something else, I don't trade away picks to move up a few spots and get Watkins... It's generally not advisable to move up except for a QB. Either way it's a risk. Interestingly enough, I heard a discussion earlier that a few years back, Belichick advised Dimitroff not to move up to get Julio Jones because it's too risky. Just because that one worked out for ATL doesn't mean it wasn't a risk. That said, I still like Watkins and hope he pans out even though I disagreed with the philosophy behind the move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? They didn't think much; they left him uncovered. He ran open and caught most of the balls thrown to him. I asked in the Hogan thread but outside of the run after catch on the crossing route, what did he do yesterday that impressed you? He made plays that any NFL WR would make. Edited January 24, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 They didn't think much; they left him uncovered. He ran open and caught most of the balls thrown to him. I asked in the Hogan thread but outside of the run after catch on the crossing route, what did he do yesterday that impressed you? He caught balls thrown to him when he was wide open in a playoff game for a good team. This is regarded as amazing by beaten down Bills fans who are so frazzled by the playoff drought they have started to believe no Bills can play in the league. It's not true , folks. The Bills have started a parade of mediocre to downright awful QBs and ushered in a revolving door of Coaches who couldn't win with bad QB play. But the team actually does have players that can play in the league , and are even decent enough to play for good NFL teams that have real Quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 He caught balls thrown to him when he was wide open in a playoff game for a good team. This is regarded as amazing by beaten down Bills fans who are so frazzled by the playoff drought they have started to believe no Bills can play in the league. It's not true , folks. The Bills have started a parade of mediocre to downright awful QBs and ushered in a revolving door of Coaches who couldn't win with bad QB play. But the team actually does have players that can play in the league , and are even decent enough to play for good NFL teams that have real Quarterbacks.Ha ha, there's some truth to this. We have to be the ONLY fan base that gets mad when our players get added to the Pro Bowl. Every other fan base is like "good for _____." We say "how in the hell is ____ in the Pro Bowl?" It is odd how down on everything we are. I know that it's been a long time but everything isn't all bad at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) They think that he was around the third or fourth most important player to focus on defensively. He slipped through some zones and Brady threw the ball to him because no one was near him. So in other words, he killed them. Got it. He caught balls thrown to him when he was wide open in a playoff game for a good team. He didn't stand still to get open. He got open. And he made the catches. That's a very good thing. This is regarded as amazing by beaten down Bills fans who are so frazzled by the playoff drought they have started to believe no Bills can play in the league. It's not true , folks. The Bills have started a parade of mediocre to downright awful QBs and ushered in a revolving door of Coaches who couldn't win with bad QB play. But the team actually does have players that can play in the league , and are even decent enough to play for good NFL teams that have real Quarterbacks. Agreed about your QB observations. And I don't regard this as "amazing." But yeah, doing your job well is a good thing. If it were so easy to get 180 yards in catches against the Steelers, everyone would do it. But this year, Hogan would've been the third-best WR on this team and we could've had him for the second level tender, which is less than the Pats paid him. If we'd replaced him with someone of equal talent, OK. But we didn't. And he wouldn't have been expensive. Edited January 24, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 How could Whaley have gotten this unit SO badly wrong? "Final Overall Grade F: This unit is void of talent and requires a complete rebuild for 2017" http://www.billsdaily.com/gameday/index.shtml Dump everybody except Sammy, rookie contract, and start all over. And the problem I have is that most knew before the season started, this unit was a mess... Tyrod Taylor didn't help this group at all, he didn't see wide open receivers in almost every game and how often did he actually hit his receivers in stride so the could pick up yards after the catch. I'm not saying this is an all-pro group but Taylor's lack of skill as a passer made them look much worse than they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? Apparently not much - they didnt even cover him on a TD catch. Tyrod Taylor didn't help this group at all, he didn't see wide open receivers in almost every game and how often did he actually hit his receivers in stride so the could pick up yards after the catch. I'm not saying this is an all-pro group but Taylor's lack of skill as a passer made them look much worse than they are. I don't care too much about this honestly - i've watched enough other QBs miss open receivers that they're actually throwing to. Big ben was skipping passes to his receivers all game, and his deep balls were fluttering all over the field. We never ran plays to get the ball to playmakers (not sure if this is because we didn't really have any). We didn't run trips or bunch formations. We took like the fewest snaps from under center, so our PA game was never that great. No Screens. No bubbles. No swings. Just such a vanilla offense. And we had a few games where we struggled in pass protection to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFFacet Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1. I think like many here, the grade was a bit harsh: D + 2. You can't grade a receiver on ability, only production: Watkins get a D- 3. Injuries were a given before the season started based on history: see Watkins and Goodwin. 4. This is a passing league, and the Bills ended up 31 in passing yards/game. 5. "Glass" Goodwin experiment: Done Draft someone - please... That's exactly the wrong philosophy. The only fair things to grade are the things in a player's control, such as how consistently they execute their assignments, beat their man, etc. Production is the outcome of things both in and out of a player's control. Things like All-22 and PFF were made for the explicit purpose of overcoming the deficiencies of outcome-oriented thinking. Ask Pittsburgh what THEY think of Hogan??? Brady goes to the open man. If they played again and Pitt went out of their way to cover Hogan, he would end up with nothing, but some combination of Mitchell or Bennett or Amendola or Lewis would go huge. Atlanta is not looking at the AFCCG tape and thinking, "the key is to cover Hogan." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) So in other words, he killed them. Got it. He didn't stand still to get open. He got open. And he made the catches. That's a very good thing. Agreed about your QB observations. And I don't regard this as "amazing." But yeah, doing your job well is a good thing. If it were so easy to get 180 yards in catches against the Steelers, everyone would do it. But this year, Hogan would've been the third-best WR on this team and we could've had him for the second level tender, which is less than the Pats paid him. If we'd replaced him with someone of equal talent, OK. But we didn't. And he wouldn't have been expensive. Every WR doesn't have the advantage of playing with for the Pats. No we don't give them credit for not standing still. Yes, Hogan would have been the 3rd best WR on the Bills. And they still would have been around .500 in the final standings. Just as they were the two seasons Hogan played for the Bills. Did Hogan do something that say, Justin Hunter couldn't do if he were on the Pats? Brady has often put up boxcar numbers vs most teams with various WRs. I would say no. Edited January 24, 2017 by Boatdrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Every WR doesn't have the advantage of playing with for the Pats. No we don't give them credit for not standing still. Yes, Hogan would have been the 3rd best WR on the Bills. And they still would have been around .500 in the final standings. Just as they were the two seasons Hogan played for the Bills. Did Hogan do something that say, Justin Hunter couldn't do if he were on the Pats? Brady has often put up boxcar numbers vs most teams with various WRs. I would say no. I brought it up in the other thread and I think that people mistook my point as a comparison between Hogan and Julio Jones. That was not the intention but I will try again. Hogan and Julio had very similar stats the other day but how they got there was quite different. Hogan ran free and caught the ball. He made a nice play on the crossing route. Jones caught balls in traffic, ran guys over, dragged his feet on the sidelines and was an all around monster. The next day the games probably looked similar. I played baseball my whole life and we had an saying that I think applies. After someone would hit a dribbler for an infield single we would say "it'll look like a line drive in the morning." The result was better than the performance. I am not trying to take anything away from Hogan. He had his most productive game in the biggest game of his life. The Bills should have tendered him. All that I am saying is that if you watched that game he didn't really do anything that a decent NFL receiver wouldn't do with that same opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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