Bart Scott rips Dareus for comments about Rex defense

[CookieG]

 

Yards given up per game between Schwartz's Philadelphia defense and the Bills defense this year through the last game.

 

6 yards difference per game.

Here's the part you're leaving out...

 

Gymshorts took over a defense that was giving up 401.6 ypg and 26.9 ppg;

 

They are now at 352.6 and 21.2 ppg.

 

Rex took a defense that had been giving up 312.2 ypg and 18.1.

 

And turned it into defense that now gives up 358.9 and 23.2

 

As an extra bonus,

 

Gymshorts took over a Buffalo defense giving up 333.4 and 24.2

 

And turned it into a defense giving up 312.2 ypg and 18.1.

 

Schwartz took 2 defenses in the past 3 years and made each of them better.

 

Rex took over a defense and 2 years later, it is still worse.

 

To quote the master at the mike, Bum Phillips...

 

"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

[FireChan]

So did Ryan. Cursory film review confirms this.

From what Pettine has said, he took the Ryan D and simplified what they had players do, and more importantly, what they told them to do. I don't recall Pettine having nearly as many pre snap checks as the RR D for the most part.

 

That was my point with "simplified."

Edited December 31, 2016 by FireChan

[K-9]

From what Pettine has said, he took the Ryan D and simplified what they had players do, and more importantly, what they told them to do. I don't recall Pettine having nearly as many pre snap checks as the RR D for the most part.

That was my point with "simplified."

Fair enough. I focused on the term "multi gap" and thought you suggested Ryan didn't also do that.

[FireChan]

Fair enough. I focused on the term "multi gap" and thought you suggested Ryan didn't also do that.

I know he did, but my undestanding was that the "base" formation of Pettine's D did have some key differences from Rex's 2016, but I may be mistaken.

Edited December 31, 2016 by FireChan

[Sisyphean Bills]

I know he did, but my undestanding was that the "base" formation of Pettine's D did have some key differences from Rex's 2016, but I may be mistaken.

 

Was it drawn in crayon?

[Peter]

 

Good post, thanks for putting in the research! Hope you enjoyed the hike. Where'd you go?

 

We went to Ellicot Creek near Audubon. My Mom's house (house I grew up in) is in Williamsville. We still need to do our Christmas cards with photos of the kids. We have been so busy, our Christmas cards are going to be New Years cards this year.

 

We just got back from Wegmans and my Mom and sister are preparing a lobster/seafood feast for our dinner tonight. Unfortunately, I have to fly back tomorrow and go to work on Tuesday.

 

Happy New Year to you and your family and everyone else here on TBD.

 

Go Bills!

 

Go Sabres:

 

Go Gunners! (for Gunner Bill and me)

Here's the part you're leaving out...

 

Gymshorts took over a defense that was giving up 401.6 ypg and 26.9 ppg;

 

They are now at 352.6 and 21.2 ppg.

 

Rex took a defense that had been giving up 312.2 ypg and 18.1.

 

And turned it into defense that now gives up 358.9 and 23.2

 

As an extra bonus,

 

Gymshorts took over a Buffalo defense giving up 333.4 and 24.2

 

And turned it into a defense giving up 312.2 ypg and 18.1.

 

Schwartz took 2 defenses in the past 3 years and made each of them better.

 

Rex took over a defense and 2 years later, it is still worse.

 

To quote the master at the mike, Bum Phillips...

 

"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

 

Here is the part you are leaving out, Schwartz came in after Chip Kelly. Chip Kelly's offense is run pretty much at the expense of the defense.

 

This is another part you are leaving out: Pro Football Focus ranks the individuals on the Eagles' defense slightly above our guys. I ran those numbers the other day. If I recall correctly, the average for each Bills starting defender was 70 (approximately) and the average for each Eagles starting defender was 72 (approximately).

Edited January 1, 2017 by Peter

[dayman]

The hard truth is we just didn't have the players. They aren't smart enough, hard working enough, or (frankly) good enough to do what Rex was asking them to do.

 

IDK why I feel this way, but I still believe that Rex has the chops to be lights on defense if he has the players, but he needs the players to be exactly right. That's a problem. It's also a problem that the execution of his own scheme is a problem for him (10 men on the field, late calls, confusion, etc.).

[RealityCheck]

The Bills' D is made up of athletes, not brainiacs. You have to run a plug and play system in today's NFL. Injuries and every damn team in the NFL running some hurry-up just burns these exotic schemes up anymore. Even Belicheat abandoned the 3-4.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The hard truth is we just didn't have the players. They aren't smart enough, hard working enough, or (frankly) good enough to do what Rex was asking them to do.

 

IDK why I feel this way, but I still believe that Rex has the chops to be lights on defense if he has the players, but he needs the players to be exactly right. That's a problem. It's also a problem that the execution of his own scheme is a problem for him (10 men on the field, late calls, confusion, etc.).

 

With a gambling, aggressive scheme like Rex preferred, one wants players that are versatile and understand their different roles. When calling an overload blitz, for example, the players opposite have to get back and fill. If one of them would rather stand there with his hands on his hips and take the play off or doesn't perform his assignment for some other reason, the offense can break off big plays.

 

Another potential dilemma for a coach is if the gap between the 1st guy and the next guy up is rather significant. Does the coach play the less athletic guy or try to plead, cajole and appease the better player into giving more effort, etc.? There are players in the NFL that really don't give a **** about anything but getting their paycheck and only do just enough.

 

In the end, this defensive coaching staff and the players didn't mesh well enough to win. It's on all of them. Watson's call was for culture change.

[CookieG]

 

We went to Ellicot Creek near Audubon. My Mom's house (house I grew up in) is in Williamsville. We still need to do our Christmas cards with photos of the kids. We have been so buys, our Christmas cards are going to be New Years cards this year.

 

We just got back from Wegmans and my Mom and sister are preparing a lobster/seafood feast for our dinner tonight. Unfortunately, I have to fly back tomorrow and go to work on Tuesday.

 

Happy New Year to you and your family and everyone else here on TBD.

 

Go Bills!

 

Go Sabres:

 

Go Gunners! (for Gunner Bill and me)

 

Here is the part you are leaving out, Schwartz came in after Chip Kelly. Chip Kelly's offense is run pretty much at the expense of the defense.

 

This is another part you are leaving out: Pro Football Focus ranks the individuals on the Eagles' defense slightly above our guys. I ran those numbers the other day. If I recall correctly, the average for each Bills starting defender was 70 (approximately) and the average for each Eagles starting defender was 72 (approximately).

 

 

Ah yes, the "its the offense's fault" excuse in the pro-Rex Ryan litany of excuses.

 

Well..you know what helps a defense get off the field? The defense.

 

In 2015, the Iggles gave up 99 3rd down conversions. That was one of the worst in the league.

This year, they are down to a more respectable 77. A 22% decrease.

 

As far as your ProFootballFocus analyisis, does that include the Bills' castoffs that GymSchwartz is using? The ones used as Rex's excuses in 2015?

 

Gain/Loss, better/worse...gains are written in black crayon, losses are written in red crayon.

 

Schwartz stats are written in black.

Rex's..after 2 years, are still written in red.

[Saint Doug]

Here's a thought: maybe it wasn't Rex's X's & O's that brought our D down. Maybe it was Rex, his lackadaisical attitude toward discipline, and his clown brother that killed it. Remember what the players are saying now, they didn't buy into it.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Saint Doug

[Peter]

 

 

Ah yes, the "its the offense's fault" excuse in the pro-Rex Ryan litany of excuses.

 

Well..you know what helps a defense get off the field? The defense.

 

In 2015, the Iggles gave up 99 3rd down conversions. That was one of the worst in the league.

This year, they are down to a more respectable 77. A 22% decrease.

 

As far as your ProFootballFocus analyisis, does that include the Bills' castoffs that GymSchwartz is using? The ones used as Rex's excuses in 2015?

 

Gain/Loss, better/worse...gains are written in black crayon, losses are written in red crayon.

 

Schwartz stats are written in black.

Rex's..after 2 years, are still written in red.

 

Where did I mention the Bills offense in my post?

 

Also, take a look at my earlier post in this thread where I detailed how the two defenses did against common opponents. It is illuminating to see how the Bills defense did against common opponents (with players ranked lower collectively than the Eagles starters).

 

As for Bradham and Leodis, I always liked both of them. I would have kept both with the Bills if we could have afforded both.

 

The whole point of this is not to diss Schwartz. I like Schwartz. The point is to provide some context in response to all of those claim that Schwartz and his 21st century defense are so much better than Rex and his supposed outdated defense -- a defense that some have argued is both outdated and too complicated for guys like Marcell (and others) with respect to whom Bart Scott was referring.

 

P.S. As for wins and losses, the Bills have a better record (7-8) than the Eagles (6-9). Moreover, Rex's record as a HC (.480%) is much better than Schwartz's record (.363) and Schwartz had Stafford for a good part of the time.

 

Happy New Year Cookie.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Peter

[3rdand12]

So why even have a coach? Do you think if Belichick had this roster he misses the playoffs?

It's not a personality contest Chris.

 

I can't say for sure who the Rex hire was on. What I can say having been in joint hiring meetings is everybody votes then the boss gets 10 votes. So if the Pegulas were blown away by Rex's sales job, they would hire him and Whaley's decision (with new bosses who have no trust in him yet) would be "do I feel strongly enough against this that this is the Ditch I want to Die in?" He might lay out his concerns, maybe there'd be a second round of questions where Rex would say all the right things, the Pegulas would say "does this address your concerns?" and Whaley would be like "ok".

 

Now if he did express concerns, and they've been borne out, and the Pegulas are good bosses, he gets credit for that and more say in this new coaching search.

 

I agree with you on Lynn. It's the HC presser, I'm a guy who needs to establish himself, I don't want someone holding my hand and shielding me from the tough questions. The most I want (and I think it would have been nice) would be a PR guy reading Pegula's statement and introducing me to start the thing off.

 

 

You get paid to perform, but if your boss introduces job conditions where you don't excel, you might not perform well. Everyone has things they do well and things they do less well, even if they're 100% trying in both cases.

I overcome them. I have dealt with that many times. I get your point. But i will always hold my end up. even if we struggle as a team it won't be for a lack of good form tackling and strong pursuit to the ball carrier LOL

Here's the part you're leaving out...

 

Gymshorts took over a defense that was giving up 401.6 ypg and 26.9 ppg;

 

They are now at 352.6 and 21.2 ppg.

 

Rex took a defense that had been giving up 312.2 ypg and 18.1.

 

And turned it into defense that now gives up 358.9 and 23.2

 

As an extra bonus,

 

Gymshorts took over a Buffalo defense giving up 333.4 and 24.2

 

And turned it into a defense giving up 312.2 ypg and 18.1.

 

Schwartz took 2 defenses in the past 3 years and made each of them better.

 

Rex took over a defense and 2 years later, it is still worse.

 

To quote the master at the mike, Bum Phillips...

 

"He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

simply put

[BarleyNY]

you mean the coaches need to minimize the players stupidity. if you are paid 100 mil to play ball you better hire a couple tutors to help you learn your assignment. you know between bong hits.

 

Obviously that's not what I mean. Some examples: If you've got CBs that play zone much better than man. then you should probably play a lot more zone than man. If you've got a defense stacked with players that excel at a penetrating, one gap, aggressive style of defense, then you probably want to run mostly that rather than run a more passive two gap, read and react style.

[White Linen]

Hey Bart - every single defensive player got worse under Rex this year. Splain that you donkey!

 

Anyone with an ounce of football knowledge knows that when every defensive weapon you have besides Kyle - who was playing his position got outshined by a 33 year old special teams player, that's a problem.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

The hard truth is we just didn't have the players. They aren't smart enough, hard working enough, or (frankly) good enough to do what Rex was asking them to do.

 

IDK why I feel this way, but I still believe that Rex has the chops to be lights on defense if he has the players, but he needs the players to be exactly right. That's a problem. It's also a problem that the execution of his own scheme is a problem for him (10 men on the field, late calls, confusion, etc.).

 

The place where I don't buy this first point, Dayman, is that they were smart, hard working, and good enough to be #4 D in the NFL the previous year.

 

I think you have it right in your second sentence - Rex needs the players to be exactly right. I think our players couldn't do what Rex was asking them to do because they're the wrong players for it.

I know Dareus has lots of talent, but I think in the NFL the difference between superstar and JAG is probably milliseconds. When he's doing what he does best, he's good, when he's trying to fill a different role he's just those few milliseconds slower that he's lunchpail. Which would be OK in Rex's D if we had the versatile, stud pass-rushing LB and the "island" shutdown corners he needs, but we don't. And even if we did at one point of the season, by the time injuries go down, we won't have exactly the right guys.

 

Which is why in todays NFL the scheme must adjust successfully to the players.

 

You're also correct that Rex and the coaching staff's execution of the scheme was a problem.

Obviously that's not what I mean. Some examples: If you've got CBs that play zone much better than man. then you should probably play a lot more zone than man. If you've got a defense stacked with players that excel at a penetrating, one gap, aggressive style of defense, then you probably want to run mostly that rather than run a more passive two gap, read and react style.

 

Yes, this.

 

And if it's true Whaley wasn't thrilled with Rex, I expect that being unable or unwilling to work with the players on the roster (example: Russ Cockrell, drafted by Whaley in 2014, looked promising, poor fit for Rex's scheme, cut, and now playing a lot for Pittsburgh) would be a big reason why.

[jms62]

 

The place where I don't buy this first point, Dayman, is that they were smart, hard working, and good enough to be #4 D in the NFL the previous year.

 

I think you have it right in your second sentence - Rex needs the players to be exactly right. I think our players couldn't do what Rex was asking them to do because they're the wrong players for it.

I know Dareus has lots of talent, but I think in the NFL the difference between superstar and JAG is probably milliseconds. When he's doing what he does best, he's good, when he's trying to fill a different role he's just those few milliseconds slower that he's lunchpail. Which would be OK in Rex's D if we had the versatile, stud pass-rushing LB and the "island" shutdown corners he needs, but we don't. And even if we did at one point of the season, by the time injuries go down, we won't have exactly the right guys.

 

Which is why in todays NFL the scheme must adjust successfully to the players.

 

You're also correct that Rex and the coaching staff's execution of the scheme was a problem.

 

Yes, this.

 

And if it's true Whaley wasn't thrilled with Rex, I expect that being unable or unwilling to work with the players on the roster (example: Russ Cockrell, drafted by Whaley in 2014, looked promising, poor fit for Rex's scheme, cut, and now playing a lot for Pittsburgh) would be a big reason why.

 

That is the problem. They were successful the year before Rex. When Rex got here they didn't continue with that success immediately and never bought in.. Probably some players were internally vocal about it and as a group just always looking in the rear view mirror at their past success...