PolishDave Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 A Top 5 passing attack combined with this rushing attack would have obliterated NFL offense records. People have lost their minds. Taylor is a very good young quarterback who played in a run-first system. And that run-first system worked and he was a big part of it. Was he perfect throwing the ball this year? No. There was a lot of factors that contributed, but in the end he finished 17th in the NFL in passer rating after finishing 8th a year ago. That's far from terrible. I would put the odds of finding an upgrade over Taylor in one offseason at about 5%. If the Pegula's and Whaley are willing to gamble with those odds then good luck - I'm not going to support it by renewing my season tickets. Come on Wayne. You're going to be there right with the rest of us no matter who QB is. The Bills are your addiction. They are your heroin. Stick the needle in and get your fix brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 A Top 5 passing attack combined with this rushing attack would have obliterated NFL offense records. People have lost their minds. Taylor is a very good young quarterback who played in a run-first system. And that run-first system worked and he was a big part of it. Was he perfect throwing the ball this year? No. There was a lot of factors that contributed, but in the end he finished 17th in the NFL in passer rating after finishing 8th a year ago. That's far from terrible. I would put the odds of finding an upgrade over Taylor in one offseason at about 5%. If the Pegula's and Whaley are willing to gamble with those odds then good luck - I'm not going to support it by renewing my season tickets. Thing is a top 5 passing attack would come at the expense of rushing attempts. Lots of folks around here cant grasp that causation of total yards is attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Come on Wayne. You're going to be there right with the rest of us no matter who QB is. The Bills are your addiction. They are your heroin. Stick the needle in and get your fix brother. If they release Taylor and expect to replace his value with *insert name of unaccomplished tall white quarterback here* and/or some shot-in-the-dark draft pick then I will not be renewing and I will find another hobby. We all have our breaking points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Thing is a top 5 passing attack would come at the expense of rushing attempts. Lots of folks around here cant grasp that causation of total yards is attempts. At some point it does become a zero-sum game. Look at Tennesee the drop off from in rushing from the Bills to Ten is not substantial from 1st to 3rd. Two spots. Tennessee is 24th in passing, up 7 spots from us. Yet Tennessee ranks 13th in the NFL in scoring. Theyre more balanced than us but dont come near us in scoring at 2.1pts per game less. Probably the most "balanced" teams in the NFL have been Dallas and Oakland. Yet we have only scored 1.3 and 1.4pts per game less than both those teams. We're closer to the Oaklands and Dallas's of the world than Tennesee is to us. My point is, if youre able to do something REALLY well, do that. Know who you are. Excel at it. TT doesnt have to be here 7yrs. But he can be more than serviceable while we either groom Cardale or draft someone else. Improve the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 At some point it does become a zero-sum game. Look at Tennesee the drop off from in rushing from the Bills to Ten is not substantial from 1st to 3rd. Two spots. Tennessee is 24th in passing, up 7 spots from us. Yet Tennessee ranks 13th in the NFL in scoring. Theyre more balanced than us but dont come near us in scoring at 2.1pts per game less. Probably the most "balanced" teams in the NFL have been Dallas and Oakland. Yet we have only scored 1.3 and 1.4pts per game less than both those teams. We're closer to the Oaklands and Dallas's of the world than Tennesee is to us. My point is, if youre able to do something REALLY well, do that. Know who you are. Excel at it. TT doesnt have to be here 7yrs. But he can be more than serviceable while we either groom Cardale or draft someone else. Improve the defense. You do need a balanced attack because some teams defenses are going to be good enough to make you one dimensional. And you have to be good enough in that dimension or you are screwed. Plus you can't really have a dominant offense without being able to execute both well. You could be dominant in one aspect like the Bills are with the run game. But that Miami game they looked truly dominant moving the ball every way with success. That is what I want. I know most everyone wants that too. I think the best year Roman's offenses ever had was the Superbowl year. And I believe that was their most balanced year where they ranked 23 in passing yards and like 8th rushing or something like that. The other years when they were even better rushing, they couldn't make it to the Superbowl. Their passing suffered because of the excessive reliance on the run game. I would like to see the Bills get the ball deep to Sammy a lot more. Or at least try even if they don't complete them. Plus it makes the games a hell of a lot more exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Thing is a top 5 passing attack would come at the expense of rushing attempts. Lots of folks around here cant grasp that causation of total yards is attempts. Go check out Mia, Dal, SF, Tenn pass and rush and remember Buf rushing set records. Lets sit down and think this through for a few seconds. With Tyrod, the Bills rank #7 in the NFL in touchdowns per game (3rd in AFC); #6 in the NFL in points per play (#2 in AFC); #5 in Red Zone TD % (#2 in AFC); #7 overall in points scored per game (3rd in AFC); #4 in NFL QB Rating in the Red Zone. Where is the improvement going to come? in between the 20's? That's the only possibly place this offense can improve with a "better passing attack". At what expense? At the detriment of the running game? Why? Why even go there? How many teams move the ball up and down the 20's passing it and then can't punch it into the end zone once they get to the red zone? Is a better passing attack going to make us #1 in every statistical category I listed? B/c that's the territory this offense would have to approach to be considered effective around here apparently, just look at the numbers up there. The Patriots have scored a whopping 1 Point more than the BILLS since week 2. ONE MORE POINT since week 2. So to be clear, this team would've gone 11-5 with a better passing game this year - how? Break that down to me. Would they have ranked #1 in scoring? Overtaken the Falcons? Who knew that in 2015 when Rex took over we had so much talent on this offense, that we'd be talking about the Bills offense having to approach NFL leading numbers on offense in order to be considered good. Players like Groy, Mills, Powell, Tate, Goodwin, Harvin, Hunter, Salas, Mike G, Reggie Bush, they're the stars in this high-powered offense. TT is just going along for the ride apparently. Or maybe I missed it and Shady had a 2,000yd rushing season with 20TD's. Yup, and three quarters of all that was because the record setting rush attack. Pass game was pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Go check out Mia, Dal, SF, Tenn pass and rush and remember Buf rushing set records. Yup, and three quarters of all that was because the record setting rush attack. Pass game was pathetic. Miami 9 in rushing 26 in passing yards Dallas 2 in rushing 19 in passing yards San F 4 in rushing 32 in passing yards Tenn 3 in rushing 24 in passing yards You just proved what JMS62 said. Good job. All of those teams that you mentioned were above average in rushing and below average in passing. Which suggests JMS is right. You sacrifice one dimension for the other. It is not perfect linear correlation, but clear as day that you sacrifice one for the other. What conclusion did you arrive at when you saw those stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Miami 9 in rushing 26 in passing yards Dallas 2 in rushing 19 in passing yards San F 4 in rushing 32 in passing yards Tenn 3 in rushing 24 in passing yards You just proved what JMS62 said. Good job. All of those teams that you mentioned were above average in rushing and below average in passing. Which suggests JMS is right. You sacrifice one dimension for the other. It is not perfect linear correlation, but clear as day that you sacrifice one for the other. What conclusion did you arrive at when you saw those stats? It's astounding that you actually needed to provide stats to support this idea. The collective IQ of TSW continues to plummet by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Buffalo had 443 pass attempts (lowest in the league). passing yardage ranked 31 (second lowest in league) = makes perfect sense The top ranked passing yardage team = Saints had 624 passing attempts compared to the Bills 443 Wouldn't you say that is a huge difference? The Saints threw the ball 40% more times than Buffalo to achieve that top ranking in passing yards. Tampa Bay who is ranked 15th in total passing yards (about average) threw the ball 100 more times than Buffalo did. 100 more freaking passes. You are much better judging quarterbacks on quarterback centric stats like completion percentages and yards per attempt passing. Those give you a more accurate picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Thing is a top 5 passing attack would come at the expense of rushing attempts. Lots of folks around here cant grasp that causation of total yards is attempts. The people that are advocating this dont care.....to them it has nothing to do with improvement it has to do that they dont want to see our team running the ball no matter how successful it is. They want to see a QB throwing for 300 yards a game. While I get the part about being able to throw when we need to.....the other parts of the game throwing will come at the expense of our running game. And I agree....our chances of finding a improvement over Tyrod Taylor are very very slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Buffalo had 443 pass attempts (lowest in the league). passing yardage ranked 31 (second lowest in league) = makes perfect sense The top ranked passing yardage team = Saints had 624 passing attempts compared to the Bills 443 Wouldn't you say that is a huge difference? The Saints threw the ball 40% more times than Buffalo to achieve that top ranking in passing yards. Tampa Bay who is ranked 15th in total passing yards (about average) threw the ball 100 more times than Buffalo did. 100 more freaking passes. You are much better judging quarterbacks on quarterback centric stats like completion percentages and yards per attempt passing. Those give you a more accurate picture. Efficiency is so much more important than total yards. As to those who continue using total yardage, I don't know if that's due to laziness, ignorance, or stupidity. Passer Rating - 17th Yards per Attempt - 21st ANY/A - 20th Interception Percentage - 7th Touchdown Percentage - 20th DVOA - 14th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 The people that are advocating this dont care.....to them it has nothing to do with improvement it has to do that they dont want to see our team running the ball no matter how successful it is. They want to see a QB throwing for 300 yards a game. While I get the part about being able to throw when we need to.....the other parts of the game throwing will come at the expense of our running game. And I agree....our chances of finding a improvement over Tyrod Taylor are very very slim. I think people honestly don't realize it is the system that is largely responsible for those low total passing yards. And even when you point it out to some of them (not all of them) they stare right at the evidence and choose not to believe it. A few guys (probably not old school) use the stat because they have an agenda against Tyrod and literally can't come up with anything better to use than that incredibly misleading stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Efficiency is so much more important than total yards. As to those who continue using total yardage, I don't know if that's due to laziness, ignorance, or stupidity. Passer Rating - 17th Yards per Attempt - 21st ANY/A - 20th Interception Percentage - 7th Touchdown Percentage - 20th DVOA - 14th Efficiency is so much more important than total yards. As to those who continue using total yardage, I don't know if that's due to laziness, ignorance, or stupidity. Passer Rating - 17th Yards per Attempt - 21st ANY/A - 20th Interception Percentage - 7th Touchdown Percentage - 20th DVOA - 14th Willful Ignorance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Willful Ignorance Also known as Baltimore, Oakland, Pittsburgh , Cincinnati, Miami game 1,New England game 2 performances by the qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Efficiency is so much more important than total yards. As to those who continue using total yardage, I don't know if that's due to laziness, ignorance, or stupidity. Passer Rating - 17th Yards per Attempt - 21st ANY/A - 20th Interception Percentage - 7th Touchdown Percentage - 20th DVOA - 14th Yep. the stats I use for Qb are typically completion percentage and YP/A Tyrod is ranked 21 for both this year. And remember he had crappy receivers for a good chunk of the year. Last year Bills ranked 14th in comp% and 6th in yp/a I think with healthy receivers in a well designed offense Tyrod is going to be close to those 14th and 6th ratings consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Yep. the stats I use for Qb are typically completion percentage and YP/A Tyrod is ranked 21 for both this year. And remember he had crappy receivers for a good chunk of the year. Last year Bills ranked 14th in comp% and 6th in yp/a I think with healthy receivers in a well designed offense Tyrod is going to be close to those 14th and 6th ratings consistently. Exactly and INT % for me also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Also known as Baltimore, Oakland, Pittsburgh , Cincinnati, Miami game 1,New England game 2 performances by the qb. A serious question Now that Tyrod's season is done.....it probably is the right time to evaluate his 2nd year as starter. I am trying to figure out what qb in the league is not going to have off quarters or even games. Ben R. through for at least 2 interceptions and several bad passes against us......would you say that he had bad quarters this season? I want to know what qb you think will be available to us that is going to play consistantly well every quarter of a 16 game season and should not expect the other 2 phases of the team to back him up from time to time. I will wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I will wait There's 9 of them right here and an NFL draft coming up. https://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Go check out Mia, Dal, SF, Tenn pass and rush and remember Buf rushing set records. Yup, and three quarters of all that was because the record setting rush attack. Pass game was pathetic. Do you prefer passing yards over points? It's a blend, and he helps the rushing game. He can improve in the passing game. Points go on the score board and decide who wins. Winning is good. So, who is YOUR QB if he goes? Be specific, not a "high draft choice" or a "vet FA". A name that is real and feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re enlightener Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Because QB is the most important position the logical thing to do is attack that spot till it is proven to be fixed. 1. Pick up the option on Tyrod 2. Go get best available FA maybe Mike Glennon type. 3. Cut EJ and play Cardell this week. 4. Draft a propect every year till something hits. Until you have a QB you have nothing in this league. So do it all till problem solved then focus on the rest. So do it all. trent dilfer disagrees It's astounding that you actually needed to provide stats to support this idea. The collective IQ of TSW continues to plummet by the day. thats where i come in, to double it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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