Fadingpain Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 The point is simple: does nearly 20 years in a business, three of which were spent tagging along with a respected GM at his behest, tend to educate a person about that business or not? And no, I'm not Russ Brandon. Yes, it educates you on the business and the business side of the operation is where Russ belongs. That doesn't involve the ins and outs of the game of football, despite the business being a football business. Do you understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I think the argument that Russ Brandon should not be in on these meetings is not the right argument. Any managing partner of an NFL franchise should be allowed to be in on conference calls that directly deal with the success/failures of that franchise. The success/failure of a franchise is measured by the teams performance on Sundays. Along the same lines would anyone question why Pegula is in on that meeting? I mean why break down gameday film to Pegula? Is he going to suggest that Rex shouldve called more double A gap blitzes? What is Pegula going to bring to that conversation. Just sign the checks right? Thats not how the business world works. Every healthy, well-run business keeps its directors/managers informed, especially if they want to be. Im glad that that the owner is involved in these weekly meetings and Brandon is allowed to attend as well. But To me the question isnt should Brandon be allowed to attend these meetings. The question should strictly be: should Brandon be employed by the Buffalo Bills at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 I, and others that have been on this board for longer than I have, will vouch for K-9. He has worked for the team in a football capacity, and knows what he's talking about. Why doesn't he say as much? Yes, it's a witch hunt. If he hasn't given you the right to call people that, then I'm afraid it's against the TOS Oh yes, he's given permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Why doesn't he say as much? Oh yes, he's given permission. Maybe he doesn't want to sound uppity, or maybe he feels he's said it enough over the years, or maybe he just didn't feel like typing it. I don't know...ask him. Mea culpa on the DC Tom question; I didn't know you were ordained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 ...weekly meetings with the owner to discuss that weeks game in detail? What a joke....and don't tell me that it is their team and they have a right to do blah blah blah. This organization is as dysfunctional as ever. You don't think Jerry Jones is intimately involved in every detail of the the Cowboys football operations? C'mon man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Thank you. That is all I'm trying to get at, but we have a lot of evidence suggesting Russ is indeed involved in football matters. Seems to me you don't have any real evidence at all. Seems like your imagination is running wild and you are all worked up about something that is only a figment of your imagination. Total mental collapse over nada. Take a deep breath. This too shall pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 You don't think Jerry Jones is intimately involved in every detail of the the Cowboys football operations? C'mon man. I just explained this in post #61. C'mon man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 I think the argument that Russ Brandon should not be in on these meetings is not the right argument. Any managing partner of an NFL franchise should be allowed to be in on conference calls that directly deal with the success/failures of that franchise. The success/failure of a franchise is measured by the teams performance on Sundays. Along the same lines would anyone question why Pegula is in on that meeting? I mean why break down gameday film to Pegula? Is he going to suggest that Rex shouldve called more double A gap blitzes? What is Pegula going to bring to that conversation. Just sign the checks right? Thats not how the business world works. Every healthy, well-run business keeps its directors/managers informed, especially if they want to be. Im glad that that the owner is involved in these weekly meetings and Brandon is allowed to attend as well. But To me the question isnt should Brandon be allowed to attend these meetings. The question should strictly be: should Brandon be employed by the Buffalo Bills at all. It's not about the meetings; it's about the meetings being one of many red flags that suggest Brandon is involved in top level football operations in at least some capacity, and he shouldn't be. It's a smoking gun for a dysfunctional franchise and the dysfunctions of this franchise are old and many. I have already stated that Pegula certainly DOES belong in such a meeting. Brandon does not need to go over the details of a game in order to do his job, as it exists in theory. In practice, he certainly does need to be involved! That's how he can continue to influence Pegula on what football decisions to make. Get the guy out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I think the argument that Russ Brandon should not be in on these meetings is not the right argument. Any managing partner of an NFL franchise should be allowed to be in on conference calls that directly deal with the success/failures of that franchise. The success/failure of a franchise is measured by the teams performance on Sundays. Along the same lines would anyone question why Pegula is in on that meeting? I mean why break down gameday film to Pegula? Is he going to suggest that Rex shouldve called more double A gap blitzes? What is Pegula going to bring to that conversation. Just sign the checks right? Thats not how the business world works. Every healthy, well-run business keeps its directors/managers informed, especially if they want to be. Im glad that that the owner is involved in these weekly meetings and Brandon is allowed to attend as well. But To me the question isnt should Brandon be allowed to attend these meetings. The question should strictly be: should Brandon be employed by the Buffalo Bills at all. The problem you get into with him is that he was calling the shots as the GM or president/CEO for a few years and the decisions made during his tenure were awful. I surely do not want to be turning to him for advice on anything with the team. From a football standpoint, we were a bad team (still are) with no clear direction and/or strategy as far as building the team goes. He sat with Butler for 3 years to learn a bit in the late 90s, big deal. Chris Polian worked with his father for how long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 the fact is we don't know what is the extent of his involvement. I would like to know. I would say the media should get on this but the Buffalo news hasn't had a inside source in a long time . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 the pegulas specifically said russ would not be involved in football decisions. he's gotten in on those. this guy needs to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Seems to me you don't have any real evidence at all. Seems like your imagination is running wild and you are all worked up about something that is only a figment of your imagination. Total mental collapse over nada. Take a deep breath. This too shall pass. You're right. There is nothing out of the ordinary at work here. Everything at OBD seems to be absolutely normal and par for the NFL as a whole. After all, most organizations go on a good 15 or 20 year playoff drought run now and again, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 From those that maintain that Russ is poisoning the organization, I remain unable to get a straight answer to this question: Does anyone honestly think that we'd talk about him at all if we'd have drafted Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, or Dak Prescott? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 The problem you get into with him is that he was calling the shots as the GM or president/CEO for a few years and the decisions made during his tenure were awful. I surely do not want to be turning to him for advice on anything with the team. From a football standpoint, we were a bad team (still are) with no clear direction and/or strategy as far as building the team goes. He sat with Butler for 3 years to learn a bit in the late 90s, big deal. Chris Polian worked with his father for how long? Yes, and the unusual circumstances of Russ' past job titles within the organization are an even bigger part of the problem as you note. Make no mistake! If Pegula ever brings in a top talent to singularly guide the direction of this franchise, that top talent would not allow Russ to remain in the building, particularly given his history within the organization and past role as GM. From those that maintain that Russ is poisoning the organization, I remain unable to get a straight answer to this question: Does anyone honestly think that we'd talk about him at all if we'd have drafted Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, or Dak Prescott? You do realize that we could have drafted all of those guys but did not, right? And that having a marketing guy sitting shotgun at the draft table could possibly be related to that? Or his influence on Pegula to hire Rex as coach? It is all related. Is Brandon responsible for all of it? Is he the primary problem? Of course not. But he is part of the problem. He does not get a free pass. Witch Hunt?? Anyone? Anyone? Is this what the next 4 years will be like? Have some respect and enjoy the ride or get the F off the bus. Imo Huh? What are you talking about? Imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 From those that maintain that Russ is poisoning the organization, I remain unable to get a straight answer to this question: Does anyone honestly think that we'd talk about him at all if we'd have drafted Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, or Dak Prescott? as we don't know the extent of his involvement we don't why did or didn't draft anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 You do realize that we could have drafted all of those guys but did not, right? Um, yeah, that was the point. Was Russ the guy that passed on Dalton? Wilson? Dak? Derek Carr? Was it Russ that didn't make a move to acquire Carson Palmer for a bag of footballs? No. You said yourself that he isn't the primary problem, so how about if we start with the primary problem. And how about a straight answer: Does anyone honestly think that we'd talk about him at all if we'd have drafted Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, or Dak Prescott? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 What exactly needs to be explained to the owner that he already didn't see by watching the game? The only person Ryan should be meeting with other than coaches to review the game is Whaley. Not Brandon, not the owners nor any other staff on the business side of the house. I have to say I agree with this. I am not big on collaborative chains of command. I am big on knowing who I am reporting to and accountable to and who is reporting to or accountable to me. I am not anti-Russ or anti-Terry and Kim and by the standards on this board I am pro-Doug, but I am increasingly of the view that the Pegula's and Brandon need to hire a GM they have absolute total faith in (or if they have that in Doug keep him) and give that person - Doug or whoever else - total control of football operations. Overdorf as the capologist and Rex or his replacement as Head Coach, the Head Trainer and Monos or replacement as Vice Pres of Player Personnel should then report to that GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Um, yeah, that was the point. Was Russ the guy that passed on Dalton? Wilson? Dak? Derek Carr? Was it Russ that didn't make a move to acquire Carson Palmer for a bag of footballs? No. You said yourself that he isn't the primary problem, so how about if we start with the primary problem. And how about a straight answer: Does anyone honestly think that we'd talk about him at all if we'd have drafted Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, or Dak Prescott? we can't answer the question because we don't know the extent of his influence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 as we don't know the extent of his involvement we don't why did or didn't draft anyone Yes we do...he is NOT making draft picks. We picked TJ Graham over Russell Wilson because Buddy Nix wanted a speedy WR. We picked Aaron Williams over Andy Dalton because Buddy Nix believed in Fitz. We could've offered the same package that Minnesota offered Seattle to move up and get Teddy Bridgewater if we wanted to move up and get Carr, but we didn't. None of those are Russ's doing, and I can't imagine that anyone believes otherwise. we can't answer the question because we don't know the extent of his influence yes, we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 13, 2016 Author Share Posted December 13, 2016 Um, yeah, that was the point. Was Russ the guy that passed on Dalton? Wilson? Dak? Derek Carr? Was it Russ that didn't make a move to acquire Carson Palmer for a bag of footballs? No. You said yourself that he isn't the primary problem, so how about if we start with the primary problem. And how about a straight answer: Does anyone honestly think that we'd talk about him at all if we'd have drafted Russell Wilson, Andy Dalton, or Dak Prescott? You're missing the point. It would have been smart to draft any of those 3 QBs, but this organization didn't. And Russ is involved at least tangentially in football matters. My point is not that Russ is the problem and we need to focus in on him, but keep everyone else. My point is everyone needs to go, including Brandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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