Its Tuesday Night. Sleep on it.

[yungmack]

Tyrod doesnt make mistakes because he refuses to throw to any receiver that isn't totally wide open. Some people think that's fine because no turnovers. But the result is passing for 160 yards a game like on Sunday

It also means wins...and as is pretty clear by now, most of the losses can be laid on the D. TT and the O have not been the problem even when he has us pulling out our hair. With the exact same O performances in the losses but better D play, the Bills would easily be sitting at 9 or 10 wins right now.

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

It also means wins...and as is pretty clear by now, most of the losses can be laid on the D. TT and the O have not been the problem even when he has us pulling out our hair. With the exact same O performances in the losses but better D play, the Bills would easily be sitting at 9 or 10 wins right now.

You do realize that if the offense wasn't going three and out most of the time, the defense would (1) Not be gassed by the end of the 2nd quarter, let alone 4th; (2) Prevent the opposing team from continuing to score; (3) could play more aggressive and not worry about "losing" the game

[section122]

You do realize that if the offense wasn't going three and out most of the time, the defense would (1) Not be gassed by the end of the 2nd quarter, let alone 4th; (2) Prevent the opposing team from continuing to score; (3) could play more aggressive and not worry about "losing" the game

 

Jets game - Defense on the field first and 8+ minute drive to start the game

 

Jags game - 6+ minute drive at the start of the game.

 

I won't argue that the 3 and outs need to improve but the D gasses themselves sometimes. Also the D has been fantastic in the 2nd half the last 3 games and most of the year.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

If that's true, then how are they averaging is like 30 points a game? Those three plays must be assume! Granted some scores were by the defense or ST, but the bulk were by the offense.

 

Not saying TT is a franchise leading QB, but overall the numbers say he's a lot better than people around here give him credit for.

 

But to the TT bashers nothing else but passing yards and passing TD's matter.

 

 

You do realize that if the offense wasn't going three and out most of the time, the defense would (1) Not be gassed by the end of the 2nd quarter, let alone 4th; (2) Prevent the opposing team from continuing to score; (3) could play more aggressive and not worry about "losing" the game

[Dorkington]

For reference re 3 and outs:

 

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2016/

 

26th in the league in 3 and out, according to this site.

[The Big Cat]

It also means wins...and as is pretty clear by now, most of the losses can be laid on the D. TT and the O have not been the problem even when he has us pulling out our hair. With the exact same O performances in the losses but better D play, the Bills would easily be sitting at 9 or 10 wins right now.

 

 

You do realize that if the offense wasn't going three and out most of the time, the defense would (1) Not be gassed by the end of the 2nd quarter, let alone 4th; (2) Prevent the opposing team from continuing to score; (3) could play more aggressive and not worry about "losing" the game

 

 

 

Jets game - Defense on the field first and 8+ minute drive to start the game

 

Jags game - 6+ minute drive at the start of the game.

 

I won't argue that the 3 and outs need to improve but the D gasses themselves sometimes. Also the D has been fantastic in the 2nd half the last 3 games and most of the year.

 

Twice the offense cost the game: Baltimore and Miami. Yes, Miami.

 

Twice the defense crapped the bed: NYJ and NE

 

Once we just got flat beat by a superior opponent: Seattle.

[section122]

 

Twice the offense cost the game: Baltimore and Miami. Yes, Miami.

 

Twice the defense crapped the bed: NYJ and NE

 

Once we just got flat beat by a superior opponent: Seattle.

 

I think the Miami game was a shared effort. The defense had a lot of very poor tackling and couldn't get stops even when everyone knew they were running. The offense couldn't generate anything in the 4th quarter to help the D out.

 

Other than that I can't really argue any of that.

[The Big Cat]

 

I think the Miami game was a shared effort. The defense had a lot of very poor tackling and couldn't get stops even when everyone knew they were running. The offense couldn't generate anything in the 4th quarter to help the D out.

 

Other than that I can't really argue any of that.

 

Defense allowed 6 points in the first 44 minutes 42 seconds of the game. And 22 in the final 15 minutes 18 seconds, during which time the offense ran 12 plays before garbage time.

 

Sorry, but no. The offense put the defense back on the field after quick drives throughout the second half, in Miami, on day when the temperatures were in the 80's.

 

Of course the blame is "shared." But the offense set the defense up to fail.

Edited November 30, 2016 by The Big Cat

[MAJBobby]

 

You know I'm a sucker for numbers huh? I know I shouldn't do your homework for you but...

 

Here is a list of total QB tds for 2016.

 

Tyrod has 16 total TDs. More than; Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton, Russel Wilson, Joe Flacco, Alex Smith, Sam Bradford

 

Tyrod has 11 passing TDs. That is as many as Joe Flacco, Russel Wilson, and Carson Wentz.

 

That is a lot of guys that you keep saying are so much better than Tyrod.

 

Tyrod has 5 rushing TDs. That is good for 16th in the league INCLUDING rbs.

 

 

 

At some point with all of these facts thrown at you about how well the Bills offense is playing, where TT's numbers stack up, etc... you are going to have to give him and the Bills some credit.

I guess you are confusing me with someone else. I do give him credit I unlike the blind followers give him criticism as well.

[The Big Cat]

They were up 17-6 midway through the 3rd before the defense gave up 22 points to close out the game.

 

The offense certainly could've helped the defense out with TOP but to say the defense gave up those points because the offense couldn't stay on the field is ludicrous.

 

It's not even remotely ludicrous. You can describe the notion with many words. Many would be accurate. Ludicrous is not one of them.

Also, they were up 17-6 with :19 to go in the third quarter. As in three full quarters.

[bobobonators]

I feel our defense has been decent.

 

I would probably like our offense to eventually evolve a bit more into on that takes a few more risks in the passing game. I think there's a definite tipping point in the ratio between TD's and turnovers that you shouldn't dip below in order to consistently win. There are also so many factors to consider (i.e., how good is the running game or how good is the defense - the better the defense, the more risk you can take and still succeed for example).

 

From the numbers above, though it's just from 2015 - present, I think you ideally don't want your QB having a Total TD/Total Turnover ratio hovering around 1.75 or below, or else they're approaching territory where they turnover the ball almost as much as they produce a score. Then you add in other turnovers by other players at RB and WR, and your team more likely than not loses the turnover battle week in/week out.

 

I'll add to the list of 22 QB's later, but the only reason I went down to 22 is b/c there was such a mish mash of QB's towards the bottom like Kaep, Gabbert, Osweiler, Keenum, Hoyer, Cutler, etc.

[The Big Cat]

I feel our defense has been decent.

 

I would probably like our offense to eventually evolve a bit more into on that takes a few more risks in the passing game. I think there's a definite tipping point in the ratio between TD's and turnovers that you shouldn't dip below in order to consistently win. There are also so many factors to consider (i.e., how good is the running game or how good is the defense - the better the defense, the more risk you can take and still succeed for example).

 

From the numbers above, though it's just from 2015 - present, I think you ideally don't want your QB having a Total TD/Total Turnover ratio hovering around 1.75 or below, or else they're approaching territory where they turnover the ball almost as much as they produce a score. Then you add in other turnovers by other players at RB and WR, and your team more likely than not loses the turnover battle week in/week out.

 

I'll add to the list of 22 QB's later, but the only reason I went down to 22 is b/c there was such a mish mash of QB's towards the bottom like Kaep, Gabbert, Osweiler, Keenum, Hoyer, Cutler, etc.

 

The offense has been "good." Read: the run game has been good.

 

If we had all our guys healthy and a quarterback of the caliber of Andy Dalton on our team, in this system, with Shady out of the backfield and defenses having to account for Sammy, (the unused) Clay, Woods, now-Harvin and a speedster like Goodwin...this offense would be GREAT.

 

We're happy scoring 28 a game and hovering around 10th. That's because our offense has been so unwatchable for so long.

 

If we had a quarterback that forced teams to cover every inch of the field, had any semblance of pocket presence and timing and did the one thing which has been unspeakable in Buffalo since Fitz left town--letting your receivers make a play on a contested ball--we could be putting up 35+ a game. I truly believe that.

 

We're playing football on a razors-edge. It should be no shock that, with the exception of MNF in the Clink (shocking), as one unit goes, so does the rest of the team.

 

I happen to believe that we're competent quarterback (actual quarterback play, not this unconventional **** TT revels in) away from being a force that doesn't have to rely on its a defense in a league where all advantage goes to the offense.

[bobobonators]

 

The offense has been "good." Read: the run game has been good.

 

If we had all our guys healthy and a quarterback of the caliber of Andy Dalton on our team, in this system, with Shady out of the backfield and defenses having to account for Sammy, (the unused) Clay, Woods, now-Harvin and a speedster like Goodwin...this offense would be GREAT.

 

We're happy scoring 28 a game and hovering around 10th. That's because our offense has been so unwatchable for so long.

 

If we had a quarterback that forced teams to cover every inch of the field, had any semblance of pocket presence and timing and did the one thing which has been unspeakable in Buffalo since Fitz left town--letting your receivers make a play on a contested ball--we could be putting up 35+ a game. I truly believe that.

 

We're playing football on a razors-edge. It should be no shock that, with the exception of MNF in the Clink (shocking), as one unit goes, so does the rest of the team.

 

I happen to believe that we're competent quarterback (actual quarterback play, not this unconventional **** TT revels in) away from being a force that doesn't have to rely on its a defense in a league where all advantage goes to the offense.

I 100% respect your opinion but I dont think its as easy as plug in Andy Dalton on here and we average 35pts a game. Andy Dalton with a good RB and AJ Green doesnt even come close to that now in cincy. The highest scoring offense in Atlanta only scores 32pts a game.

 

You plug in another QB in here the offense may still produce the same in terms of points, it just may be done differently. That, i dont know. Maybe shady gets less touches and we have more passing TDs. And then thay can also come at the risk of turning the ball over since Andy Dalton turns the ball over at a much higher clip.

 

I just dont think its as simple as you propose.

Theres a reason andy dalton's winning % is worse than TT's since 2015.

[The Big Cat]

I 100% respect your opinion but I dont think its as easy as plug in Andy Dalton on here and we average 35pts a game. Andy Dalton with a good RB and AJ Green doesnt even come close to that now in cincy. The highest scoring offense in Atlanta only scores 32pts a game.

 

You plug in another QB in here the offense may still produce the same in terms of points, it just may be done differently. That, i dont know. Maybe shady gets less touches and we have more passing TDs. And then thay can also come at the risk of turning the ball over since Andy Dalton turns the ball over at a much higher clip.

 

I just dont think its as simple as you propose.

Theres a reason andy dalton's winning % is worse than TT's since 2015.

 

That's fair. But Dalton has never had anything resembling Shady to work with. Imagine an offense that complements Shady, instead of having to depend him, that's all. The fact that we score the way we do now absent a respectable passing game is borderline miraculous.

[bbb]

I compiled the following. For people who like numbers like I do you may appreciate it. For those who dont you wont care. Stats are stats. Numbers are numbers. Wins trump all. But thats the fun of sports. Anyway here we go:

 

Since 2015. For QBs. Instead of a simple TD/INT ratio i looked at TOTAL TD/TOTAL TURNOVER ratio which consists of passing and rushing TD and INT/fumbles lost for QBs. I also included Dak even though he didnt play last yr. Its a ratio and i figured 11 games was a decent sample size for Dak

 

1. Tom Brady - 5.7

2. Dak - 4.6

3. Tyrod - 3.33

4. Russel Wilson - 2.94

5. Rodgers - 2.82

6. Brees - 2.71

7. Cam - 2.63

8. Alex Smith - 2.62

9. Stafford - 2.48

10. Cousins - 2.45

11. Dalton - 2.39

12. Carr - 2.25

13. Palmer - 1.89

14. Eli - 1.83

15. Big Ben - 1.8

16. Rivers - 1.73

17. Mariota - 1.71

18. Tannehill - 1.64

19. M. Ryan - 1.62

20. Luck - 1.46

21. Fitz - 1.39

22. Flacco - 1.15

 

Tom Brady has contributed to 5.7x more TD than turnovers.

 

That was actually a complete waste of my time. Cheers.

 

This has probably been talked about a lot - but it seems to me interceptions are way down from what they used to be in previous decades. Are they?

[Mr. WEO]

I like these numbers. Kinda makes you wonder on AVG TT is attributing around 24.33 points to the offense before a turnover.

 

So now that makes me wonder why it doesn't translate to more wins. I get by these numbers you essentially start off 0-2 with the Pats.

 

I can attribute a lot of last year to the injuries on defense so I would like to see a regression or progression number from Tyrod in 2015 to 2016. Hold on I will help out.

 

2015 - 3.42 (14 games)

2016 - 3.2 (11 games)

 

2015 PPG 22.5

2016 PPG 21.0

 

So by these numbers we should almost be winning every game minus the 2 against NE.

 

I know it doesn't work this way but something is holding this team back in the win column.

 

It's probably that the other team scores more points.

[section122]

 

It's probably that the other team scores more points.

I read a stat today.

 

Amazingly the Bills are 403-0 when outscoring their opponents! They should try to do that every game!

Edited November 30, 2016 by section122

[MAJBobby]

 

This has probably been talked about a lot - but it seems to me interceptions are way down from what they used to be in previous decades. Are they?

Yes I would say so because the rules have been so skewed toward the Offense and the passing game

[Kirby Jackson]

Tyrod doesnt make mistakes because he refuses to throw to any receiver that isn't totally wide open. Some people think that's fine because no turnovers. But the result is passing for 160 yards a game like on Sunday

...and they won by 7. What's the point?

[Kirby Jackson]

 

That's fair. But Dalton has never had anything resembling Shady to work with. Imagine an offense that complements Shady, instead of having to depend him, that's all. The fact that we score the way we do now absent a respectable passing game is borderline miraculous.

Part of Shady's effectiveness comes from the threat of Tyrod as a runner. He's leading the league in ypc. Defenses have to respect him as a runner and that opens things up for Shady as well. It's basically how Ohio State's offense has worked for years. Thinking that plugging in a better passer will produced better results is debatable.

 

What we do know is that they are 8th in PPG. That's better than 75% of the league teams in the league. That's a good thing. The way it's discussed here you'd think that we were better than 5%.

 

Obviously, Tyrod could be a better thrower, so could JT Barrett (to my earlier example). Passing is a PART of a QB's job. His job is to score and to lead. I hate this expression but, there are a lot of ways to skin a cat. It's hard to quantify performance because it isn't conventional but the points are there. I'd rather have a QB that has the offense at 8th in PPG than a QB that has the offense at 8th in passing yards per game.