Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 You provided one article that proved he's at least the 11th best corner in the NFL. I fail to see where that's not worth paying him. Contracts are about market forces and someone will pay him that. For trying to prove that he's not great, you did a better job of proving myself and Bandit correct. Can't provide anything I see. You just want to argue a point, but have nothing substantial to back it up with. An elite CB is in the Top 5, which 11th is not elite. Here's another since you are unable to provide anything of value: https://www.profootballfocus.com/snapshot-nfl-passer-rating-allowed-cornerbacks/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Well would you look at this? YardsPerPass.com @YardsPerPass 21h21 hours ago I watched the Smith TD again, looks like Gilmore was in man and Darby in zone... Again without knowing the play we don't know who messed up Again, everyone was in man...except Darby. Can't provide anything I see. You just want to argue a point, but have nothing substantial to back it up with. An elite CB is in the Top 5, which 11th is not elite. Here's another since you are unable to provide anything of value: https://www.profootballfocus.com/snapshot-nfl-passer-rating-allowed-cornerbacks/ From 4 years ago!!!!!!!!!!! How about from last year? https://www.profootb...-buffalo-bills/ "Both Ronald Darby and Stephon Gilmore earned top-10 overall grades among NFL CBs last season." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreezeMafia Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm 100% certain that he wasn't oblivious; there was clearly a miscommunication. My money is on Gilmore thinking he had safety help; no way to know who's mistake that was. I do like that it's somehow "another" game where he gets burned--has he even allowed a TD this season? Spoiler alert: the answer is no. I disagree that Gilmore thought he had help over the top. They played the replay from the end zone and he looked completely lost. He also looked like her was at half speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 YardsPerPass.com @YardsPerPass 21h21 hours ago I watched the Smith TD again, looks like Gilmore was in man and Darby in zone... Again without knowing the play we don't know who messed up Well then someone screwed up! I say we lop of a finger from both of them - that'll teach 'em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I disagree that Gilmore thought he had help over the top. They played the replay from the end zone and he looked completely lost. He also looked like her was at half speed. As I've since stated (and shown with clips from Rex's playbook): Gilmore (and everyone else at the 2nd level) was in man coverage on that play. The only guy at the 2nd level that played zone was Darby, so either Gilmore, NRC, and every LB got the coverage wrong, or Darby got the coverage wrong. Which one seems more likely to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Can't provide anything I see. You just want to argue a point, but have nothing substantial to back it up with. An elite CB is in the Top 5, which 11th is not elite. Here's another since you are unable to provide anything of value: https://www.profootballfocus.com/snapshot-nfl-passer-rating-allowed-cornerbacks/ I'm just having fun watching you unravel, my friend. You have your definition of elite and I'll have mine, pretty clear that you're completely set to attempt to disprove anything I'll provide so I'm not really inclined to waste my time. If you want to find something more recent than four years ago, I'll listen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm just having fun watching you unravel, my friend. You have your definition of elite and I'll have mine, pretty clear that you're completely set to attempt to disprove anything I'll provide so I'm not really inclined to waste my time. If you want to find something more recent than four years ago, I'll listen I wonder why he hasn't commented on my link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I wonder why he hasn't commented on my link? Because PFF isn't to be believed. Apart from in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm just having fun watching you unravel, my friend. You have your definition of elite and I'll have mine, pretty clear that you're completely set to attempt to disprove anything I'll provide so I'm not really inclined to waste my time. If you want to find something more recent than four years ago, I'll listen It's obvious you can't find anything to back your statement up. Well would you look at this? YardsPerPass.com @YardsPerPass 21h21 hours ago I watched the Smith TD again, looks like Gilmore was in man and Darby in zone... Again without knowing the play we don't know who messed up Again, everyone was in man...except Darby. From 4 years ago!!!!!!!!!!! How about from last year? https://www.profootb...-buffalo-bills/ "Both Ronald Darby and Stephon Gilmore earned top-10 overall grades among NFL CBs last season." The Bills had an easy schedule last year. How did they look against an elite QB like Brady last year? Better yet, how did they look against Ryan Fitzpatrick this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 "OVER-RATED (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) OVER-RATED (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) OVER-RATED..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 "OVER-RATED (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) OVER-RATED (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap) OVER-RATED..." +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's obvious you can't find anything to back your statement up. That assumes that I'm trying. I'm very comfortable in my assessment of Gilmore. I've watched every snap he's taken as a Bill and I'm absolutely certain he's worthy of being paid. Bandit has provided the kind of links I would've if I was inclined to bother. I'm pretty sure that I'll trust his football IQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Are we sure Gilmore blew it, as opposed to Darby? It was unclear to me. Tell me again how we know he was responsible for the blown coverage and not Darby? I thought both Darby and Gilmore thought they had safety support deep. But yes blown coverage by someone, I think between Gilmore and safety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I actually saw him tackle someone yesterday. I guess he figured if he didn't tackle a QB he wouldn't hear the end of it. Its so rare, that even I took notice. BTW Aaron Williams was looking straight at Gilmore with when the play broke away.. I am not a Gilmore fan any more, but mistakes happen. The rest of his game was decent. As far as the contract. Bills might Tag him ( cheaper). But i don't think he gets the big contract some other team will surely give him. That's just business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 That assumes that I'm trying. I'm very comfortable in my assessment of Gilmore. I've watched every snap he's taken as a Bill and I'm absolutely certain he's worthy of being paid. Bandit has provided the kind of links I would've if I was inclined to bother. I'm pretty sure that I'll trust his football IQ. Just trying to get out of a conversation. Here's what I've seen from Gilmore over his time with the Bills so far. He's been a good to above average CB, has durability issues, doesn't get very many interceptions, gets dumb penalties at the wrong times and is not consistent with his play. I like Gilmore, but he's not elite and is not worth Top 5 CB money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Anyone mentioning Darby getting toasted by Torrey Smith? Thought not. I look forward to 2018 when you talk yourself out of re-signing him as well Toasted? Beat. as i said, it happens to all CBs. How about all of Ronalds excellent tackles Sunday? Shall we compare them to Gilmore? Kid plays the whole game Edited October 17, 2016 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's obvious you can't find anything to back your statement up. The Bills had an easy schedule last year. How did they look against an elite QB like Brady last year? Better yet, how did they look against Ryan Fitzpatrick this year... Actually, the corners played very well against Brady last year--it was the safeties and LBs that got victimized repeatedly in game 1. Try watching the games. It seems the only argument you have is that the corners didn't play well against the Jets. Nice work. As for against elite QBs--you seem to have forgotten what they did to Aaron Rodgers and pre-dead-arm Peyton Manning in back-to-back weeks in 2014, but nice job trying to marginalize the stats that you asked for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac2001 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So Darby blew it Man coverage Thread over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I thought both Darby and Gilmore thought they had safety support deep. But yes blown coverage by someone, I think between Gilmore and safety Nope--Darby played zone while the rest of the cover guys (corners and LBs) played man. My money is on Darby's mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Its so rare, that even I took notice. BTW Aaron Williams was looking straight at Gilmore with when the play broke away.. I am not a Gilmore fan any more, but mistakes happen. The rest of his game was decent. As far as the contract. Bills might Tag him ( cheaper). But i don't think he gets the big contract some other team will surely give him. That's just business I too think they use the tag on him this year and I am perfectly okay with that. I think that the idea of using the tag on him was why it was so important to get the Tyrod restructure done before the start of the year. Although I don't think Gilmore is worth top 5 money, for 1 year I wouldn't be mad. A long term top 5 money deal would, imo, be a bad business decision. Just trying to get out of a conversation. Here's what I've seen from Gilmore over his time with the Bills so far. He's been a good to above average CB, has durability issues, doesn't get very many interceptions, gets dumb penalties at the wrong times and is not consistent with his play. I like Gilmore, but he's not elite and is not worth Top 5 CB money. Your post reads as though he needs to be top 5 to be elite and I don't think that is the case. He can be borderline elite/ very good and still not worth top 5 money. Unfortunately the money will likely bear a top 5 contract for him. Some team with a ton of cap space will throw a big deal at him (if not franchised) and he will likely take it. 16 teams have more than 38 million in cap space for the upcoming year. Also your links have not done much for your argument. One had Gilmore as the 11th best cb (at least 2 of the guys on the list haven't played well this year), and the other is from so long ago it has Peanut Tillman (who has since retired) as one of the top cbs in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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