CommonCents Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's just frustrating that most will only focus on the bad with him, but not with others. He's a damn good corner, it's just that most don't give a **** about the 300 routes a year he takes away. In the interest of playing devil's advocate, I want to know where people plan on securing a replacement. Not "sign a free agent" or "draft someone", actual names for actual money or an actual round. In theory, not paying him is great but, unless you have a plan for replacing him, I don't want to hear it from anyone. You would be looking at paying a Prince A. or someone similar for much less than Gilmore is going to get or using a high pick. I would have taken Alexander and groomed him this year behind Gilmore and Darby. By refusing to pay Gilmore top 5 money you are accepting lesser cornerback play in the short term, no doubt about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's just frustrating that most will only focus on the bad with him, but not with others. He's a damn good corner, it's just that most don't give a **** about the 300 routes a year he takes away. In the interest of playing devil's advocate, I want to know where people plan on securing a replacement. Not "sign a free agent" or "draft someone", actual names for actual money or an actual round. In theory, not paying him is great but, unless you have a plan for replacing him, I don't want to hear it from anyone. If they were to let Gilmore walk, I'd hope they could secure a guy like Alford in FA. I'm not quite comfortably with Tankersly or any of the college guys yet--not with knowing how Rex plays his boundary guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Again, my issues with Gilmore are (i) he loses focus 2-4 times per game in coverage; and (ii) he's a horrible form tackler. He's a great cover corner but those two deficiencies keep him from being elite in my book. In any event, I have no doubt they'll try to re-sign him but they will not overpay. They'll put a number on him and stick to it and if he leaves because he can get more, so be it. Edited October 17, 2016 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) RE: the Torrey Smith play, based on the front-7 look and the pre-snap coverage look, I'm guessing that the called coverage was 46 Zorro (from Rex's playbook). If I'm correct, then that means that the inside corner (Gilmore) has the Curl Flat assignment, and that it's Cover 3, with Darby and the 2 safeties taking the deep 1/3. See the upper-right frame below: Upon further review, it looks like the call was one of Rex's "0 Train" calls, in which the corners will group to one side against a bunch/trips set. I'll try to post the image from the playbook if I can find a way to do it... In these packages, the corners are all in straight man coverage. So, if you've watched the play, and you know who lined up over whom, then you know who blew the coverage. I won't say who, because I might be accused of "fan boy love". Again, my issues with Gilmore are (i) he loses focus 2-4 times per game in coverage; and (ii) he's a horrible form tackler. He's a great cover corner but those two deficiencies keep him from being elite in my book. In any event, I have no doubt they'll try to re-sign him but they will not overpay. They'll put a number on him and stick to it and if he leaves because he can get more, so be it. Well-stated on all fronts. Edited October 17, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 You would be looking at paying a Prince A. or someone similar for much less than Gilmore is going to get or using a high pick. I would have taken Alexander and groomed him this year behind Gilmore and Darby. By refusing to pay Gilmore top 5 money you are accepting lesser cornerback play in the short term, no doubt about it. If they were to let Gilmore walk, I'd hope they could secure a guy like Alford in FA. I'm not quite comfortably with Tankersly or any of the college guys yet--not with knowing how Rex plays his boundary guys. Alford isn't a bad shout as an under the radar guy. The only other guy I would've been willing to pay $10m+ to was Darius Slay but he's obviously off the market. I really don't think the FA market is all that good for 2017. I've written about some of the corners available in the draft. I'd happily take Tankersley or Humphrey in the 1st, maybe Des Lawrence on Day 2. With Eli Apple going 10th while being kinda meh, I doubt my top 2 guys are around when they pick. When I think about the options available, I'm really not sure we can get similar production from most. It's a really tough spot because corner is crucial to Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Nice job defending your point; you've clearly supported your argument well. When you let Ryan Fitzpatrick look like Tom Brady, you're not an elite corner, fan-boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Seymour is coming along nicely after the injury, he was everywhere in training camp and will replace Gilmore if he beats Robey out for the CB job. loser gets nickel corner role, still a very important job in this D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 When you let Ryan Fitzpatrick look like Tom Brady, you're not an elite corner, fan-boy. Another brilliant defense of your point! You're very, very good at this...seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) RE: the Torrey Smith play, based on the front-7 look and the pre-snap coverage look, I'm guessing that the called coverage was 46 Zorro (from Rex's playbook). If I'm correct, then that means that the inside corner (Gilmore) has the Curl Flat assignment, and that it's Cover 3, with Darby and the 2 safeties taking the deep 1/3. See the upper-right frame below: Good stuff bandit. Does Trips right change the coverage rules? Edit- never mind I see you already got there. Darby most likely covered the wrong guy. Seymour is coming along nicely after the injury, he was everywhere in training camp and will replace Gilmore if he beats Robey out for the CB job. loser gets nickel corner role, still a very important job in this D Robey is and will alway be the a Nickel. The exception being if a smaller shifty type lines up outside. He's too small to match up on bigger wideouts. Edited October 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Good stuff bandit. Does Trips right change the coverage rules? Edit- never mind I see you already got there. Darby most likely covered the wrong guy. Thanks. Regarding the bold, I'll say only this (since my browser won't let me post the image from the playbook that shows it quite clearly): watch the immediate post-snap action of each corner and LB. There's only one guy that isn't playing man coverage, so it stands to reason that he's the one that screwed up. I'll be watching the All-22 when it comes out, and I'll also be paying specific attention to what guys like @yardsperpass and Cover-1 have to say...I'll put my money down that they agree with me on this one. Edited October 17, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Again, my issues with Gilmore are (i) he loses focus 2-4 times per game in coverage; and (ii) he's a horrible form tackler. He's a great cover corner but those two deficiencies keep him from being elite in my book. In any event, I have no doubt they'll try to re-sign him but they will not overpay. They'll put a number on him and stick to it and if he leaves because he can get more, so be it. A nice summary averaging the fictitious extremes to conclude upon what is reality. What he does very well, elite athlete and phscical player that can match up against the top wrs in the NFL and stay in their pocket. He's hard to consistently separate from even for the best. Edited October 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Another brilliant defense of your point! You're very, very good at this...seriously. It's apparent you're a fan-boy and a troll. All you could come up with is Gilmore has been great for four years which is completely inaccurate. Come up with some stats on how great Gilmore is compared to the league's elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's apparent you're a fan-boy and a troll. All you could come up with is Gilmore has been great for four years which is completely inaccurate. Come up with some stats on how great Gilmore is compared to the league's elite. Knock it off - seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It's apparent you're a fan-boy and a troll. All you could come up with is Gilmore has been great for four years which is completely inaccurate. Come up with some stats on how great Gilmore is compared to the league's elite. Here's a thought. How about you back up your assertion that he wasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) It's apparent you're a fan-boy and a troll. All you could come up with is Gilmore has been great for four years which is completely inaccurate. Come up with some stats on how great Gilmore is compared to the league's elite. I've done it on this board many times. By the way, who's the guy that's posted actual clips from Rex's playbook to show the assignment on the Torrey Smith play, and who's the guy in here throwing insults? I think we can tell who actually knows their stuff versus who's a troll For everyone else, above is the clip--man coverage Edited October 17, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Here's a thought. How about you back up your assertion that he wasn't? Here's one for starters (notice who's not on the list): http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/nfl-top-10-cornerbacks-rankings-richard-sherman-darrelle-revis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Here's one for starters (notice who's not on the list): http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/nfl-top-10-cornerbacks-rankings-richard-sherman-darrelle-revis And Gilmore was an honourable mention at No. 11. So, he's the 11th best (and Revis has since fallen off a cliff) at the very worst. Including slot corners, that's 96 starters. That's upper tier. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 And Gilmore was an honourable mention at No. 11. So, he's the 11th best (and Revis has since fallen off a cliff) at the very worst. Including slot corners, that's 96 starters. That's upper tier. Try harder. Gilmore wants to be paid like a Top 5 CB and is not a Top 5 CB...ain't gonna happen. You opened your mouth and said provide something, so I did. Ball is in your court to provide something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Here's one for starters (notice who's not on the list): http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/nfl-top-10-cornerbacks-rankings-richard-sherman-darrelle-revis Well, here's Andy Benoit's list based on film study... http://247sports.com/Gallery/sports-illustrated-ranks-the-nfls-top-15-cornerbacks-in-2016-45398291 More: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-2016-cheat-sheet-buffalo-bills/ "Both Ronald Darby and Stephon Gilmore earned top-10 overall grades among NFL CBs last season." Edited October 17, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Gilmore wants to be paid like a Top 5 CB and is not a Top 5 CB...ain't gonna happen. You opened your mouth and said provide something, so I did. Ball is in your court to provide something. You provided one article that proved he's at least the 11th best corner in the NFL. I fail to see where that's not worth paying him. Contracts are about market forces and someone will pay him that. For trying to prove that he's not great, you did a better job of proving myself and Bandit correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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