3rdand12 Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Some Colts fans that I frequently interact with don't think their OL was as bad in 2015 as the vast majority make out. One of the things I'm interesting in doing is going back over his 2015 games to see how much truth there is to that suggestion. On paper, their OL doesn't look like it should be anything higher than middle of the pack. I base my comment on comments. Shame on me. There is the standing theory that middle of the pack , should be good enough to take a team to the Big Game though. Of course alway more to the picture than first meets the eye. and i only watch the Bills these days. Please let me know if you do review some more film. Ps i was thinking last couple years he was getting banged up BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Some Colts fans that I frequently interact with don't think their OL was as bad in 2015 as the vast majority make out. One of the things I'm interesting in doing is going back over his 2015 games to see how much truth there is to that suggestion. On paper, their OL doesn't look like it should be anything higher than middle of the pack. on paper the OL isn't terrible from a talent standpoint. They just couldn't establish a running game and it left him vulnerable in the pocket. Obviously 2015 is going to be tough to evaluate with clarity due to his injuries. Game 1 vs bills might be the most informative. He was hurt after that. I think firing pep Hamilton was the right move along with elevating Chud and drafting Ryan Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 on paper the OL isn't terrible from a talent standpoint. They just couldn't establish a running game and it left him vulnerable in the pocket. Obviously 2015 is going to be tough to evaluate with clarity due to his injuries. Game 1 vs bills might be the most informative. He was hurt after that. I think firing pep Hamilton was the right move along with elevating Chud and drafting Ryan Kelly. I thought making that Coaching change was reflective of Colt's long term hopes for Luck. It really wasn't about learning to slide more effectively. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Kim Jung QB is all powerful. Today he created the San Antonio Colts all by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) on paper the OL isn't terrible from a talent standpoint. They just couldn't establish a running game and it left him vulnerable in the pocket. Obviously 2015 is going to be tough to evaluate with clarity due to his injuries. Game 1 vs bills might be the most informative. He was hurt after that. I think firing pep Hamilton was the right move along with elevating Chud and drafting Ryan Kelly. Kelly should be a huge upgrade (quite frankly, one of my favourite 1st round fits). Their run game really needs a spark from somewhere. Gore is past his prime and Turbin/Todman are RBBC guys. Josh Ferguson and Tyler Varga will never have a better shot at significant playing time. As a 1-2 punch, those young guys could be a nice cheap little pairing. As others have stated, an upgrade at HC & GM would solve more of the problems. I love their DL depth but there is a LOT of questions with their back 7. Edited June 30, 2016 by Blokestradamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Kelly should be a huge upgrade (quite frankly, one of my favourite 1st round fits). Their run game really needs a spark from somewhere. Gore is past his prime and Turbin/Todman are RBBC guys. Josh Ferguson and Tyler Varga will never have a better shot at significant playing time. As a 1-2 punch, those young guys could be a nice cheap little pairing. As others have stated, an upgrade at HC & GM would solve more of the problems. I love their DL depth but there is a LOT of questions with their back 7. I've never thought of the Colts DL as particularly deep or talented. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Signed through 2021 more details to come. "Worth mentioning -- Luck's contract is up a year after the current CBA expires, and a year before the current TV deals are done." #Colts QB Andrew Luck's 5-year extension pays him $75M over the first 3 years, source said. Slightly less over final 2 years. $140 million over 6 years Great now we will never get him, why didn't we tank that year Some Colts fans that I frequently interact with don't think their OL was as bad in 2015 as the vast majority make out. One of the things I'm interesting in doing is going back over his 2015 games to see how much truth there is to that suggestion. On paper, their OL doesn't look like it should be anything higher than middle of the pack. How in the world to you have time for all that, I love football but no way am I rewatching all that. on paper the OL isn't terrible from a talent standpoint. They just couldn't establish a running game and it left him vulnerable in the pocket. Obviously 2015 is going to be tough to evaluate with clarity due to his injuries. Game 1 vs bills might be the most informative. He was hurt after that. I think firing pep Hamilton was the right move along with elevating Chud and drafting Ryan Kelly. They should have kept Bruce Arians, they would have won the SB by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Signed through 2021 more details to come. "Worth mentioning -- Luck's contract is up a year after the current CBA expires, and a year before the current TV deals are done." #Colts QB Andrew Luck's 5-year extension pays him $75M over the first 3 years, source said. Slightly less over final 2 years. $140 million over 6 years While I was fully aware this would happen, I still don't think its a good investment. Luck isn't going to carry them anywhere, you would think the Colts would have learned this lesson with Manning. Like Luck, Manning was a reg season stat whore but had a poor playoff track record where his play and stats would dip and they would go 1 and done 9 times as one of the top seeds in the AFC. Now the Colts are going all in on Luck while having a weak team around him, and he is not as good as Manning and way to turnover prone to carry a team to a SB. Im not saying Luck isn't a good QB, but to be paid as the leagues best is crazy. He's been atrocious in the playoffs...he puts up gaudy stats because they throw a lot, but when the real season begins in the post season he loses them more games than he wins and has more turnovers than TDs for his postseason career. As a GM, there is always pressure to over pay a QB, especially today, so there was literally no way this was not going to happen...but I still don't agree with it. If I had to pick a QB to lead me into the post season...my choices in no particular order ahead of Luck are as follows...Wilson, Brees, Brady, Cam, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Flacco. I would even consider Palmer. Luck isn't in their category...but he's being paid as if he's better than them and at a price that will make the team challenged to put the talent around him (as they need a lot of help on both sides of the ball) for him to be a SB winning QB. Last year QBR...Luck is 25th in the league...but just got paid like he was number 1. Traditional QB rating, he was 32nd in the league last year. The kid is being paid on his potential, but at this point in his career he has been regressing statistically and has never had a good post season yet. Thats a lot of dough to pay a guy who should be getting better not worse and finished near the bottom as a QB in the NFL last year. And there are concerns about his ability to stay healthy the way he plays... Bad contract IMO, but it was also inevitable and not surprising. Edited July 1, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 While I was fully aware this would happen, I still don't think its a good investment. Luck isn't going to carry them anywhere, you would think the Colts would have learned this lesson with Manning. Like Luck, Manning was a reg season stat whore but had a poor playoff track record where is play and stats would dip and they would go 1 and done 9 times as one of the top seeds in the AFC. Now the Colts are going all in on Luck while having a weak team around him, and he is not as good as Manning and way to turnover prone to carry a team to a SB. Im not saying Luck isn't a good QB, but to be paid as the leagues best is crazy. He's been atrocious in the playoffs...he puts up gaudy stats because they throw a lot, but when the real season begins in the post season he loses them more games than he wins and has more turnovers than TDs for his postseason career. As a GM, there is always pressure to over pay a QB, especially today, so there was literally no way this was not going to happen...but I still don't agree with it. If I had to pick a QB to lead me into the post season...my choices in no particular order ahead of Luck are as follows...Wilson, Brees, Brady, Cam, Rodgers, Big Ben, and Flacco. I would even consider Palmer. Luck isn't in their category...but he's being paid as if he's better than them and at a price that will make the team challenged to put the talent around him (as they need a lot of help on both sides of the ball) for him to be a SB winning QB. Last year QBR...Luck is 25th in the league...but just got paid like he was number 1. Traditional QB rating, he was 32nd in the league last year. The kid is being paid on his potential, but at this point in his career he has been regressing statistically and has never had a good post season yet. Thats a lot of dough to pay a guy who should be getting better not worse and finished near the bottom as a QB in the NFL last year. And there are concerns about his ability to stay healthy the way he plays... Bad contract IMO, but it was also inevitable and not surprising. The GM has been the problem in Indy not the QB. If you polled the league on which player they would take to start a new franchise I'm sure Luck would rank pretty highly. Grigson finally made a 1st round pick that made sense and protects his young QB. Now only if they could turn back time and fix the last three drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) The GM has been the problem in Indy not the QB. If you polled the league on which player they would take to start a new franchise I'm sure Luck would rank pretty highly. Grigson finally made a 1st round pick that made sense and protects his young QB. Now only if they could turn back time and fix the last three drafts. GM doesn't make Luck commit so many turnovers...GM doesn't make Luck play worse in the Postseason than the Regular season with the exact same roster. All these excuses made for him are just excuses. Again, I am not saying he's a bad QB, but he has been terrible in the postseason with the same roster he put up big stats with in the regular season THREE times now. He has never had a post season with more TD's than turnovers...not once. He was one of the worst passers in the league last year. In a year he was expected to be a SB contender, he came out and totally crapped the bed and was terrible. Colts were actually better once he got hurt. He didn't lose his weapons from one year to the next...yet he severely struggled and regressed. He has a lot still to prove...and again...hes being paid on potential, and he has a ton of it. And if we had this fantasy draft, he would be drafted on his potential, not his resume which includes being one of the worst rated passers in the league last year and a terrible post season resume. Can he get better...absolutely. Have we seen his best yet, probably not. But to pay a guy like he's the best player in the NFL who was terrible on a team that was supposed to take a step forward and has never gotten it done in the post season ever is a big commitment. The ONLY thing Luck has proven is that he is not good enough to carry a mediocre team...but they just paid him so much that all but insures the roster will be mediocre for a long time. PS: Couple years ago Colin Kapernick would have been a top pick by those same GM's in this same make believe draft...Kap also got paid based on his potential, paid big...now look at that toxic contract. RG3 also would have at one time been a very top pick in this make believe draft...but now look at him. So stating GM's would take him early if the NFL had a whole redraft doesn't mean a whole lot... Edited July 1, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Kelly should be a huge upgrade (quite frankly, one of my favourite 1st round fits). Their run game really needs a spark from somewhere. Gore is past his prime and Turbin/Todman are RBBC guys. Josh Ferguson and Tyler Varga will never have a better shot at significant playing time. As a 1-2 punch, those young guys could be a nice cheap little pairing. As others have stated, an upgrade at HC & GM would solve more of the problems. I love their DL depth but there is a LOT of questions with their back 7. i bet they would love to have a guy like Jonathan Williams right now. They are really missing that young, workhorse back. They've been missing that for awhile. The Ryan Kelly pick made so much sense, I would have bet money that Grigson would have done something else. He must have a smart guy or two in the room to save him from himself. Edited July 1, 2016 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 GM doesn't make Luck commit so many turnovers...GM doesn't make Luck play worse in the Postseason than the Regular season with the exact same roster. All these excuses made for him are just excuses. Again, I am not saying he's a bad QB, but he has been terrible in the postseason with the same roster he put up big stats with in the regular season THREE times now. He has never had a post season with more TD's than turnovers...not once. He was one of the worst passers in the league last year. In a year he was expected to be a SB contender, he came out and totally crapped the bed and was terrible. Colts were actually better once he got hurt. He didn't lose his weapons from one year to the next...yet he severely struggled and regressed. He has a lot still to prove...and again...hes being paid on potential, and he has a ton of it. And if we had this fantasy draft, he would be drafted on his potential, not his resume which includes being one of the worst rated passers in the league last year and a terrible post season resume. Can he get better...absolutely. Have we seen his best yet, probably not. But to pay a guy like he's the best player in the NFL who was terrible on a team that was supposed to take a step forward and has never gotten it done in the post season ever is a big commitment. The ONLY thing Luck has proven is that he is not good enough to carry a mediocre team...but they just paid him so much that all but insures the roster will be mediocre for a long time. PS: Couple years ago Colin Kapernick would have been a top pick by those same GM's in this same make believe draft...Kap also got paid based on his potential, paid big...now look at that toxic contract. RG3 also would have at one time been a very top pick in this make believe draft...but now look at him. So stating GM's would take him early if the NFL had a whole redraft doesn't mean a whole lot... Andrew Luck is not even close to Colin Kap, Kap was a 2nd round pick and excelled while defenses experienced the read option fad that quickly burnt out. Luck does have a tendency to force the ball and make mistakes, a lot of young QB's have problems with turnovers...Peyton did some of that but learned from it. I don't think anyone knows exactly when Luck was hurt last year and/or how bad, I won't judge him based on his performance though because clearly something was wrong. I'm not a big fan of Luck but as you said he has all the tools to improve and from all accounts he is leaps and bounds above 95% of other football players mentally. IMO he has been short changed on coaching, scheme, and Oline help. TRent Richardson experiment etc. etc. they have really written a playbook for what not to do when you get a franchise QB. I just wouldn't go as far to compare him to a player like Kap who doesn't have the pedigree and potential of Luck. I feel like that's comparing a Bass Boat to a Yacht because you can catch fish off both of them. Which boat do you want? He needs to learn to stop chasing after guys on his INT's and stop taking shots in the pocket. That is my biggest concern with him, his health. His next step will be playoff performance, again I won't be too critical the Patriots ran that team over multiple times, that whole team needs to play better. Ryan Kelly is a nice start, I said Grigson would have been a fool to pass on him, for Luck's sake thankfully he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Andrew Luck is not even close to Colin Kap, Kap was a 2nd round pick and excelled while defenses experienced the read option fad that quickly burnt out. Luck does have a tendency to force the ball and make mistakes, a lot of young QB's have problems with turnovers...Peyton did some of that but learned from it. I don't think anyone knows exactly when Luck was hurt last year and/or how bad, I won't judge him based on his performance though because clearly something was wrong. I'm not a big fan of Luck but as you said he has all the tools to improve and from all accounts he is leaps and bounds above 95% of other football players mentally. IMO he has been short changed on coaching, scheme, and Oline help. TRent Richardson experiment etc. etc. they have really written a playbook for what not to do when you get a franchise QB. I just wouldn't go as far to compare him to a player like Kap who doesn't have the pedigree and potential of Luck. I feel like that's comparing a Bass Boat to a Yacht because you can catch fish off both of them. Which boat do you want? He needs to learn to stop chasing after guys on his INT's and stop taking shots in the pocket. That is my biggest concern with him, his health. His next step will be playoff performance, again I won't be too critical the Patriots ran that team over multiple times, that whole team needs to play better. Ryan Kelly is a nice start, I said Grigson would have been a fool to pass on him, for Luck's sake thankfully he didn't. I wasn't comparing him to Kap as a player, comparing him to Kap's contract and your comment about how GM's would take him early in a NFL wide fantasy draft. Like Luck, at the time Kap got paid he was considered one of the better young QB's in the game with a bright future and he too would have been take very high by GMs building a team. That was my point...it didn't work out. Luck now is in the same boat, except Kap was at least coming off one of his better years while Luck is coming off not only his worst year but one of the worst of any QB in the league last year. But he still got paid like he is one of the best players in the league. Again, not saying Luck doesn't have a ton of potential, because he does. But the Colts just bet the farm on him and so far he has yet to prove he is worth this much money. But with QB's, potential is worth as much or more than on field performance so there was no way he wasn't going to get a massive contract from the Colts...but I am just glad I am not the GM that had to mortgage the farm on a guy who has played at his worst in the most recent year and in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I wasn't comparing him to Kap as a player, comparing him to Kap's contract and your comment about how GM's would take him early in a NFL wide fantasy draft. Like Luck, at the time Kap got paid he was considered one of the better young QB's in the game with a bright future and he too would have been take very high by GMs building a team. That was my point...it didn't work out. Luck now is in the same boat, except Kap was at least coming off one of his better years while Luck is coming off not only his worst year but one of the worst of any QB in the league last year. But he still got paid like he is one of the best players in the league. Again, not saying Luck doesn't have a ton of potential, because he does. But the Colts just bet the farm on him and so far he has yet to prove he is worth this much money. But with QB's, potential is worth as much or more than on field performance so there was no way he wasn't going to get a massive contract from the Colts...but I am just glad I am not the GM that had to mortgage the farm on a guy who has played at his worst in the most recent year and in the playoffs. Would you rather be the GM that had to pay Tannehill, Cutler, Stafford, Dalton, Cousins, Brock, Bradford etc. The QB market and the way it impacts teams is a tough pill to swallow I'm just not going to start with Luck when I gripe about it. As I said before I'm not a fan of his personally but I can see why GM's around the league talk highly of him even though he is yet to win anything. I'm done defending Luck until he shaves his neckbeard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I've never thought of the Colts DL as particularly deep or talented. Am I missing something? Maybe just a personal preference. Huge fan of Henry Anderson and David Parry. I'm also fairly fond of TY McGill and Zach Kerr. I know that PFF graded Kendall Langford quite highly although his production (7 sacks) was news to me until I just looked. If Arthur Jones gets healthy, there's a lot of potential up front. How in the world to you have time for all that, I love football but no way am I rewatching all that. The joys of no significant other, no friends and no social life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Maybe just a personal preference. Huge fan of Henry Anderson and David Parry. I'm also fairly fond of TY McGill and Zach Kerr. I know that PFF graded Kendall Langford quite highly although his production (7 sacks) was news to me until I just looked. If Arthur Jones gets healthy, there's a lot of potential up front. The joys of no significant other, no friends and no social life. I guess you are married to the Bills maybe you can go on BuffalosOnly and find yourself a niece heifer i bet they would love to have a guy like Jonathan Williams right now. They are really missing that young, workhorse back. They've been missing that for awhile. The Ryan Kelly pick made so much sense, I would have bet money that Grigson would have done something else. He must have a smart guy or two in the room to save him from himself. true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 @buckybrooks After 4 NFL seasons, Russell Wilson is the better player than Andrew Luck, and it's not even close. Kinda shocking! http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/20605/russell-wilson-has-edge-over-andrew-luck-through-first-four-seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) I hope he deserves every penny. Luck just spent nine weeks out of the game and not so good when in. Crazy days. But i do hope Mr Tyrod gets his, and for all the right reasons a good reason to try and sign TT now, even if taking a risk... Let a Gilmore deal ride for now and sign TT for 14-15 m and be done with it ? Edited July 1, 2016 by 8and8-->NoMore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The ONLY thing Luck has proven is that he is not good enough to carry a mediocre team. What a bunch of absolute nonsense. He's carried sub-par teams to the playoffs his first 3 years in the league. That rookie team he was on was the worst team in football the previous year. He's started 55 games and played under 5 different centers. Yes, five -- that's a QB's nightmare. He has a GM that has previously ignore the OL and inexplicably surrounds him with old talent that needs to be put out to pasture (A. Johnson, F. Gore). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Vic Carucci's take on how Luck's deal impacts Tyrod http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/07/01/vic-caruccis-bills-morning-wake-call-lucks-deal-can-mean-good-fortune-taylor/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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