Preston Brown with an interesting quote..

[FLFan]

I dont picture Mario sitting in the locker saying to heck with this coach......dont do this dont do that......

 

That would be giving Mario too much credit......

 

He has never been a leader of any team he has been on....he has been a damn good player...

 

but

 

This year you could see that he was not giving the effort.....I dont know if it is because he was not going to be back and didnt want to get hurt....or his heart just wasnt in it or whatever

 

To me it was more of......the past success of this defense RELIED on him being a rock at his position......and so when he was not that rock....some things fell apart

 

Rex did his part to screw this up though...it was a collective effort

I agree completely that it was a collective effort. None the less, I have no patience with quitters. Mario had to go if this team had any chance of coming together as a team.

[Fixxxer]

He lead by his play 3 years prior to last year here.

 

He was a very good to great player here. He took on a pretty lame approach last year because he obviously didn't like what was being asked of him(nor did anyone else who saw what that DLine did in 2014).Still Not an excuse for his **** effort.

 

Just to be clear, this isn't a Mario crusade, I would have never hired Rex Ryan if I'm the Pegulas. My choice for HC was Hue Jackson and I would have paid big money to keep Schwartz, thus keeping the defense intact.

 

With that being said, we paid Mario Williams to be great, not to be merely good most of the time. I already stated in this board that if Mario really tried most of the time he would be 20 sack player every year. He as talented a player can be but he doesn't always put the effort to be the dominant force he could be.

[PO16FFS]

I just read the whole thread.

 

I learned nothing but speculation and bullcrap.

[Beef Jerky]

Marcel makes pretty good $ and he griped too. If you want to say Mario infuenced him, not buying it. He's a grown man. If the coach/supervisor doesn't know how to use the strength/abilities of his staff/players, it's going to be difficult for everyone to buy in. Doesn't matter what anyone says or thinks and it works the same way at any job.

The coaches were using players to their strengths... sadly Mario didn't want to play.

[3rdand12]

I think that Brown and Ragland are going to reign terror in the run game to the point of teams scheming away from them. Both of them can hit like trains.

As long as Rex gives/ gets good safety support Preston will get back on track. And Brow was better than advertised his first season in the short pass game

[mrags]

Wow, really?! How about PFF who consistently have used actual play to label him elite? Their metrics are not the be all and end all, but I'd take them (and his fellow players who have voted him to multiple pro bowls and Top 100s) over one person's opinion.

 

Also, can we dispense with this notion that he's been "constantly injured"? In the three years before last, he missed one whole game.

well, actual play is skewed as I pointed out since he has lined up next to Mario and Marcel for the last 3 years. So that argument means nothing. But if you want to keep making that point then let's have at it.

 

Before Mario and Marcel he finished the season with 0,2,2,4, 5.5 sacks.

 

Since Mario and Marcel- 5, 10.5, 5.5, 1

 

His stats increased significantly since Lining up next to REAL Pro Bowlers.

 

He averages less 3.5 sacks a year over his career in case you can't do the math.

 

I also find it hilarious that you mentioned that the 3 years before this year when he was injured he was only injured for 1 game. However, if you go back 4 years, he misses 12 total games. Funny you stopped at 3 years. It's ok though.

 

You don't get the point that even though a player plays in games doesn't mean he's healthy. And is sure doesn't mean he has played well enough to warrant a start.

 

And on to the fact that he was voted to the pro bowl by his peers. Yeah, it's a joke. Same as it's always been. Like how Ruben Brown used to go to every pro bowl based off voting because he used to throw massive parties every year he was voted in. He didn't deserve it either.

 

It's fine. You have a love fest with Kyle Williams. Just like many here had a love fest for Lee Evans, Aaron Schobel (who by the way is hands down a much better player than Kyle ever was), than CJ Spiller, Roscoe Parrish, Trent Edwards, etc... The list could go on and on. In the end, I'll be proven right. Kyle, as good as many feel he is, is just a locker room leader and not a whole lot more. I hope his jersey still fits you though when you dream about him 10 years from now.

Edited May 30, 2016 by mrags

[The Big Cat]

Man... That Tennessee game was some bad offense.

 

What an up and down year. I figured it would be but always hard to stomach

 

TT has a lot to prove to this Bills fan. But that TEN game was brutal and he single-handedly willed the team to victory. Without him, it was a soul-crushing flashback to Edwards-era football.

 

i really need to go back and watch kyle in these early games. i don't remember fully enough. was it his legs? was it is role? it just seemed like where he was getting was not where he needed to be. was it speed or assignment? something really bothers me about this - i'm believing that kyle would not have added to our abilities on defense and will now get mocked on this because kyle is defintely on the home stretch of his career and with this system we just diminish his ability to contribute.

 

how? you really think mario would give two craps what kyle would say? i don't even think incognito could get in on mario.

 

watch it again. we got slowly picked apart and strategically manhandled by a much better managed coach and quarterback duo teeing off against our predictable, slow defense.

 

its the myth of mario. its going to grow day by day.

 

OOO

....very good... hahahahahahahahaha! you're hilarious. all that kool aid, you need some ovalteen or something. jesus, son.

 

That was a third down play. A stop and it's a 4th and four, in their own territory with less than 8 minutes to go in a one score game. They would punt. After that play, the defense only surrendered another 32 yards...29 of which were assessed on unsportsnmanlike penalties.

 

I guess what I'm saying is: we can hoot and holler and make a big !@#$ing production out of marginalizing these facts with accusations of kool aid drinking or we can take them for what they are: facts.

 

But so long as the facts are dismissed and mocked as some sort of subjective homerism, then we're locked into a stalemate of realities that can't co-exist: actual reality (the one supported by facts), and the reality that NNNs (predominately) twist to satisfy their own bizarrely self-flaggelating narrative.

 

 

 

 

 

I looked in the game logs online and it appears that the Bradham play still counts.

 

Yep, exactly. An individual's error is being cherry picked as a critique on the whole unit/scheme.

[boyst]

That was a third down play. A stop and it's a 4th and four, in their own territory with less than 8 minutes to go in a one score game. They would punt. After that play, the defense only surrendered another 32 yards...29 of which were assessed on unsportsnmanlike penalties.

 

 

But so long as the facts are dismissed and mocked as some sort of subjective homerism, then we're locked into a stalemate of realities that can't co-exist: actual reality (the one supported by facts), and the reality that NNNs (predominately) twist to satisfy their own bizarrely self-flaggelating narrative.

the red makes the blue hilarious because the fact that rex is a clown is hilarious.

 

the orange is just absurd. you know, cuz you can't blame the defense for unsportsmanlike conduct!

 

because if his ass would be an actual coach instead of an asshat he would not put up with those unsportsmanlike penalties. because, ya know, rex is such a discipline guy. hypothetical to say it'd be any different with anyone else coaching... but, with rex being rex, we know these moments come at key times. we know that rex's team has attitude issues.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Boyst62

[The Big Cat]

the red makes the blue hilarious because the fact that rex is a clown is hilarious.

 

the orange is just absurd. you know, cuz you can't blame the defense for unsportsmanlike conduct!

 

because if his ass would be an actual coach instead of an asshat he would not put up with those unsportsmanlike penalties. because, ya know, rex is such a discipline guy. hypothetical to say it'd be any different with anyone else coaching... but, with rex being rex, we know these moments come at key times. we know that rex's team has attitude issues.

 

OBJ was punching players in the face. It set Brown off. He got a penalty. This was a much debated incident. Then OBJ pulled the same **** again and was disciplined for it. Rex's fault, I guess.

Edited May 30, 2016 by The Big Cat

[thurst44]

well, actual play is skewed as I pointed out since he has lined up next to Mario and Marcel for the last 3 years. So that argument means nothing. But if you want to keep making that point then let's have at it.

 

Before Mario and Marcel he finished the season with 0,2,2,4, 5.5 sacks.

 

Since Mario and Marcel- 5, 10.5, 5.5, 1

 

His stats increased significantly since Lining up next to REAL Pro Bowlers.

 

He averages less 3.5 sacks a year over his career in case you can't do the math.

 

I also find it hilarious that you mentioned that the 3 years before this year when he was injured he was only injured for 1 game. However, if you go back 4 years, he misses 12 total games. Funny you stopped at 3 years. It's ok though.

 

You don't get the point that even though a player plays in games doesn't mean he's healthy. And is sure doesn't mean he has played well enough to warrant a start.

 

And on to the fact that he was voted to the pro bowl by his peers. Yeah, it's a joke. Same as it's always been. Like how Ruben Brown used to go to every pro bowl based off voting because he used to throw massive parties every year he was voted it. He didn't deserve it either.

 

It's fine. You ha e a love fest with Kyle Williams. Just like many here had a love fest for Lee Evans, Aaron Schobel (who by the way is hands down a much better player than Kyle ever was), than CJ Spiller, Roscoe Parrish, Trent Edwards, etc... The list could go on and on. In the end, I'll be proven right. Kyle, as good as many feel he is, is just a locker room l after and not a whole lot more. I hope his jersey still fits you though when you dream about him 10 years from now.

I present stats and the opinion of experts, you say I have a "love fest" and make childish gay jokes...fine, you clearly have some sort of weird jeremiad for him, rather than appreciating what a player has done for the team you supposedly root for. Did Kyle kick down your sand fort? It's a specious argument to say that Mario & Marcel raised Kyle, b/c it helps everyone to have great players next to you.

 

It is not particularly hilarious to stop at three years, because you said consistently injury prone. In all the seasons before the only other season he had a serious injury, he missed all of 2 games going back to 2007. If he stayed healthy for the past 3 years, considering the injury rate in the whole league, it seems a bit of a stretch to call him "consistently injury prone" You, yourself, contradict yourself by quoting his recent stats and saying he was not "ready to start"...he sure did ok.

 

Comparing him to Spiller, Parrish, and Edwards...really?!?! You make your own argument look stupid there. The Pro Bowl may be silly, but that wasn't the only argument I made. Once there's a preponderance of evidence, I'm going to go with the facts and not on some random fan who wants to attack a player on his favorite team for whatever reason.

[boyst]

 

OBJ was punching players in the face. It set Brown off. He got a penalty. This was a much debated incident. Then OBJ pulled the same **** again and was disciplined for it. Rex's fault, I guess.

excuses and petunia's make a beautiful bouquet. they don't do crap for football.

 

what you just said doesn't mean shiz. two wrongs don't make a right. no one on the buffalo bills organization can control what beckham junior does. either way, whatever your nonsensical reply is trying to say i am pretty sure your kool aid comes straight from rex ryan and its salty and calcium full.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Boyst62

[The Big Cat]

excuses and petunia's make a beautiful bouquet. they don't do crap for football.

 

what you just said doesn't mean shiz. two wrongs don't make a right. no one on the buffalo bills organization can control what beckham junior does. either way, whatever your nonsensical reply is trying to say i am pretty sure your kool aid comes straight from rex ryan and its salty and calcium full.

 

If you've had trouble making sense of anything I've shared to this point, my best advice for you would be to look within.

 

As for your clear and present bias against Rex Ryan, it has quite clearly clouded any/all valuable input you would have otherwise contributed.

[mrags]

I present stats and the opinion of experts, you say I have a "love fest" and make childish gay jokes...fine, you clearly have some sort of weird jeremiad for him, rather than appreciating what a player has done for the team you supposedly root for. Did Kyle kick down your sand fort? It's a specious argument to say that Mario & Marcel raised Kyle, b/c it helps everyone to have great players next to you.

 

It is not particularly hilarious to stop at three years, because you said consistently injury prone. In all the seasons before the only other season he had a serious injury, he missed all of 2 games going back to 2007. If he stayed healthy for the past 3 years, considering the injury rate in the whole league, it seems a bit of a stretch to call him "consistently injury prone" You, yourself, contradict yourself by quoting his recent stats and saying he was not "ready to start"...he sure did ok.

 

Comparing him to Spiller, Parrish, and Edwards...really?!?! You make your own argument look stupid there. The Pro Bowl may be silly, but that wasn't the only argument I made. Once there's a preponderance of evidence, I'm going to go with the facts and not on some random fan who wants to attack a player on his favorite team for whatever reason.

You presented stats? The stats that he averages 3.5 sacks a season over his entire career? Wow. You really showed me there didn't you.

 

Opinion are like a&$holes... Everybody has one and most of them stink of s#%t. So the opinion of the so called experts on ESPN and other sports media outlets really don't mean a warm bucket of urine to me.

 

I did say love fest. It's clearly what you have for an average player considering you are fighting until the end for him even after being proven by stats that he's not that good. Btw... I never say anything about being gay. If you read it as such, then you probably need to figure some things out for yourself. Don't get mad at me for it. You brought it up.

 

Again, if you went back 4 years you would see he has missed significant time. You didn't. You decided to stop at 3 years to make it look like he hasn't missed as much. If he wasn't injured 4 years ago would you have asked the question about the last 4 years or would you have went back further. I'm guessing you would have went back as many years as you could just to prove your point but you couldn't because 4 years ago he missed 11 games.

 

I stated his stats with a purpose showing his stats have increased significantly since being lined up next to Mario and Marcel. You apparently read that differently. It's ok, you didn't understand anything else so I wouldn't expect you to understand that either.

 

Comparing him to Spiller, Evans, Parrish, and Edwards was in no way a comparison of actual talent. They were all generally talentless over their careers. Or at least over rated. It was a comparison that some people actually feel a player is better than they really are. Usually it's because they are a blue collar lunch pal to work type of guy. Usually they aren't nearly as good as they hype them up to be. And that is why I say you have a love fest with him. Much like many others. Don't feel bad, your not the only one.

 

Enjoy your Memorial Day.

Edited May 30, 2016 by mrags

[Dorkington]

Wait, Kyle Williams sucks now?

 

Jesus, I learn something new every day. I thought he was widely regarded a good DT? (notice I say good, not hall of fame, not elite)

[boyst]

 

If you've had trouble making sense of anything I've shared to this point, my best advice for you would be to look within.

 

As for your clear and present bias against Rex Ryan, it has quite clearly clouded any/all valuable input you would have otherwise contributed.

that's just it. i have spent quite a few hours playing chess with the pieces rex has on the table and knowing his system. every time i do i see chaos on the board. i see liabilities i would exploit time and time again. i look and see amendola and edleman, lockett and baldwin, mike wallace and steve smiff, landry and parker... countless others that excell right across the middle on teams that execute the short pass plays and run very efficient offenses with base personnel... i see those teams on our schedule and i see a very big issue.

 

we have reggie ragland on this team and if we are going to run a 3-4 he is 1/4 of a unit playing mike. he is 1/11 of our defense which is not going to help us one bit. i see preston brown who was exposed last year trying to catch up to ryan's scheme - who now should be much more limited and that is when i have to damn well hope that manny lawson starts on this defense. that !@#$ing terrifies me. yes !@#$ING TERRIFIES ME. the idea is that never in a league should manny lawson, at this point in his career, be a full time game starter - and now he needs to be because he's probably one of our top 5 best players on a ryan defense.

 

i see our outside linebacker - jerry hughes succeeding but not like he could and should playing defensive end in a 43 with a good sam to cover outside. he won't be used to his full potential.

 

at defensive end i see no real defensive ends for ryans defense. i see great athletes put in at positions to play football and accomplishing moderate success because of the high level of ability of players like kyle williams and marcel dareus. i see a. washington and other depth players on the line not able to get downfield. to be set up as an attack the middle - possibly lining up holes for ragland to rush (ragland is slow and can't shed blocks). i just don't see this working as well as other systems would with this talent.

 

the only thing i see excelling is our corner backs because i see heaps of time for quarterbacks to throw passes and i see them putting up big numbers on breakups, int's and tackles. gilmore is going to get the crap beat out of him and darby will get some tests by those still wanting to take advantage and the option to make the long pass. but its going to come down to the safeties who will be confused. confused because they have responsibility so strongly to cover the run press the middle but press the play to the outside. it takes a football smart player to make this system work. i dont' see graham being that player and i am 100% confident aaron williams is not smart enough.

 

i see rex ryan trying to force a system which he built up after already having a very good amount of talent on top of which he built himself. for those who want to think about something and their first name is that of something you find in the bathroom and not called a brush... rex ryan took the defense of the 2009 jets from 18th to 1st in ONE season. i'm not sure it was all him or it was also pettine and the rest of the staff - but he definitely did not do that here.

 

i need to see a lot more of what they want to do before i'll buy in one little bit.

Wait, Kyle Williams sucks now?

 

Jesus, I learn something new every day. I thought he was widely regarded a good DT? (notice I say good, not hall of fame, not elite)

he's overrated. doesn't suck. just overrated.

[Dorkington]

Overrated? His rating is 'good'... so you consider him average?

[boyst]

Overrated? His rating is 'good'... so you consider him average?

madden? pff? tecmo? fantasy? what ratings we talking about here?

 

and pff is just as much garbage for a ranking as anything else. study how they develop their non skill position scores and get back to me. i've discussed it too much as i have known people who interned and volunteered for them. its a joke.

[thurst44]

You presented stats? The stats that he averages 3.5 sacks a season over his entire career? Wow. You really showed me there didn't you.

 

Opinion are like a&$holes... Everybody has one and most of them stink of s#%t. So the opinion of the so called experts on ESPN and other sports media outlets really don't mean a warm bucket of urine to me.

 

I did say love fest. It's clearly what you have for an average player considering you are fighting until the end for him even after being proven by stats that he's not that good. Btw... I never say anything about being gay. If you read it as such, then you probably need to figure some things out for yourself. Don't get mad at me for it. You brought it up.

 

Again, if you went back 4 years you would see he has missed significant time. You didn't. You decided to stop at 3 years to make it look like he hasn't missed as much. If he wasn't injured 4 years ago would you have asked the question about the last 4 years or would you have went back further. I'm guessing you would have went back as many years as you could just to prove your point but you couldn't because 4 years ago he missed 11 games.

 

I stated his stats with a purpose showing his stats have increased significantly since being lined up next to Mario and Marcel. You apparently read that differently. It's ok, you didn't understand anything else so I wouldn't expect you to understand that either.

 

Comparing him to Spiller, Evans, Parrish, and Edwards was in no way a comparison of actual talent. They were all generally talentless over their careers. Or at least over rated. It was a comparison that some people actually feel a player is better than they really are. Usually it's because they are a blue collar lunch pal to work type of guy. Usually they aren't nearly as good as they hype them up to be. And that is why I say you have a love fest with him. Much like many others. Don't feel bad, your not the only one.

 

Enjoy your Memorial Day.

 

I'm clearly in a "love fest" with the guy, that's the only reason I could possibly think a player many fans, writers, analysts, and fellow players think is one of the better players in the game might be pretty good. That's the only possible reason, because I'm blinded by my overwhelming passion for the guy...and so are they? I presented my argument, you presented yours. You think he's average, and as you said about opinions...

 

Sacks are not the primary stat for defensive tackles. Cortez Kennedy had 4 and change per year, and is in the Hall of Fame? First six games, the Bills run defense was solid...strangely after game 6, they only held the opposing team to three digit rushing once. Kyle's not the only guy on D, but that's not the only argument I made.

 

I did go back 4 years, I went back his whole damn career...apparently you don't "understand" this. He had two season ending injuries, and otherwise missed three games...that's in 11 seasons. If you call that "consistently injured," ok. I disagree. But it's just that I don't "understand." We can disagree, it doesn't mean I don't "understand."

 

For the record, I own one jersey; I bought it in a rush of fandom when at the Hall of Fame for Reed's induction...the only choices were Manuel and Watkins, so I took Watkins and still feel a bit silly when I wear it b/c I'm not really a jersey sort of guy. Had a bunch of AFC Champion sweatshirts back in the day. I'm not defending Kyle b/c I'm blinded, but b/c from what I can see and verify. he has been an above average player, and many "experts" (and surely some "idiots") agree. I just don't like it when we tear down our players, especially unnecessarily when the logic seems ridiculous to me (sorry). It's not blind fandom, and it's not particularly about Kyle. If I "dream" about Kyle in 10 years, hopefully it's because he sacked Cam Newton or stopped Thomas Rawls for a loss to clinch a Super Bowl, and I'd think you should hope that too .

 

Anyway, talk about tl:dr. I sincerely apologize for the novel. Happy Memorial Day to you as well.

madden? pff? tecmo? fantasy? what ratings we talking about here?

 

and pff is just as much garbage for a ranking as anything else. study how they develop their non skill position scores and get back to me. i've discussed it too much as i have known people who interned and volunteered for them. its a joke.

Yes, I don't think PFF is necessarily gospel, but it hits a point where you guys are really playing whack-a-mole to say everyone else's opinion is wrong to make the case one of our better players for over a decade is not especially good. My experience between my own eyes, stats, writers, other players opinions, is that he is above average and deserves defending. Also, saw the convo at top of page, hope you feel better.

Edited May 30, 2016 by thurst44

[boyst]

 

I'm clearly in a "love fest" with the guy, that's the only reason I could possibly think a player many fans, writers, analysts, and fellow players think is one of the better players in the game might be pretty good. That's the only possible reason, because I'm blinded by my overwhelming passion for the guy...and so are they? I presented my argument, you presented yours. You think he's average, and as you said about opinions...

 

Sacks are not the primary stat for defensive tackles. Cortez Kennedy had 4 and change per year, and is in the Hall of Fame? First six games, the Bills run defense was solid...strangely after game 6, they only held the opposing team to three digit rushing once. Kyle's not the only guy on D, but that's not the only argument I made.

 

I did go back 4 years, I went back his whole damn career...apparently you don't "understand" this. He had two season ending injuries, and otherwise missed three games...that's in 11 seasons. If you call that "consistently injured," ok. I disagree. But it's just that I don't "understand." We can disagree, it doesn't mean I don't "understand."

 

For the record, I own one jersey; I bought it in a rush of fandom when at the Hall of Fame for Reed's induction...the only choices were Manuel and Watkins, so I took Watkins and still feel a bit silly when I wear it b/c I'm not really a jersey sort of guy. Had a bunch of AFC Champion sweatshirts back in the day. I'm not defending Kyle b/c I'm blinded, but b/c from what I can see and verify. he has been an above average player, and many "experts" (and surely some "idiots") agree. I just don't like it when we tear down our players, especially unnecessarily when the logic seems ridiculous to me (sorry). It's not blind fandom, and it's not particularly about Kyle. If I "dream" about Kyle in 10 years, hopefully it's because he sacked Cam Newton or stopped Thomas Rawls for a loss to clinch a Super Bowl, and I'd think you should hope that too .

 

Anyway, talk about tl:dr. I sincerely apologize for the novel. Happy Memorial Day to you as well.

Yes, I don't think PFF is necessarily gospel, but it hits a point where you guys are really playing whack-a-mole to say everyone else's opinion is wrong to make the case one of our better players for over a decade is not especially good. My experience between my own eyes, stats, writers, other players opinions, is that he is above average and deserves defending. Also, saw the convo at top of page, hope you feel better.

i'm not as extreme as mrs ags.

 

i am saying he is overrated. he is what fred jackson was last year - overrated.

 

do i still want kyle on this team? yes. did i want fred jackson last year? yes.

[Peter]

It is sad how so many threads on this site devolve into the same subject where the usual suspects miss the irony of their complaining that Rex is a blow hard.

 

Rather than waste my time and yours, I will just incorporate my prior posts defending Rex.

 

Carry on with your circular firing squad.