Luxy312 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well you could say we need elite at every position John. It's just unrealistic and not truly necessary to winning. This in a nutshell captures it. Every year, there's numerous idiot fans out there that think the Bills should be in the market for every high end free agent out there, and of course re-sign every player to ridiculous contracts. It's just not realistic. Some of those same people are clamoring to use a high round draft pick on a quarterback to serve as a backup. To what purpose? I'm in no more of a hurry for the Bills to give Gilmore a new deal than I am Tyrod Taylor. Earn it and we'll see what happens. Elite players at some positions make average players at other positions just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Unless something drastic changes next offseason, the cap is going to still be an issue and while I like Gilmore, I'm not sure I like him at the salary he is going to command. Honestly, if the front office is looking long term, and knows that it won't be possible to re-sign him come 2017... why not try to trade him while his value is high, and in the process, save $11MM in cap space this season? If the deal is good (early round draft pick + a decent player in a position of need like LB), why not? I feel like every DB that leaves Buffalo and signs a big contract never ends up living up to expectations anyway... Byrd, Greer, Clements, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Unless something drastic changes next offseason, the cap is going to still be an issue and while I like Gilmore, I'm not sure I like him at the salary he is going to command. Honestly, if the front office is looking long term, and knows that it won't be possible to re-sign him come 2017... why not try to trade him while his value is high, and in the process, save $11MM in cap space this season? If the deal is good (early round draft pick + a decent player in a position of need like LB), why not? I feel like every DB that leaves Buffalo and signs a big contract never ends up living up to expectations anyway... Byrd, Greer, Clements, etc. I can agree with this as well. Nothing wrong with getting value for a guy while you still can get it, versus waiting and being handcuffed. We do know that the Bills aren't keeping Mario Williams for a $19.9 million cap hit in 2016, when they can release him and have it be only $7.0 million. He's just one guy, but when you take the top 5-6 guys, you can quickly get to cap savings approaching $30 million. Not chump change. To your point though, if Gilmore isn't part of the plan, then deal him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Unless something drastic changes next offseason, the cap is going to still be an issue and while I like Gilmore, I'm not sure I like him at the salary he is going to command. Honestly, if the front office is looking long term, and knows that it won't be possible to re-sign him come 2017... why not try to trade him while his value is high, and in the process, save $11MM in cap space this season? If the deal is good (early round draft pick + a decent player in a position of need like LB), why not? I feel like every DB that leaves Buffalo and signs a big contract never ends up living up to expectations anyway... Byrd, Greer, Clements, etc. The Nate Odomes Curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 It has nothing to do with not needing two elite corners....we DO These words from Gilmore sound a lot like he is gonna price himself out of our range We are going to have to pay a QB now soon to Who wouldn't rather have two elite corners? Money will always be found. Pay Gilmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 @viccarucci #Bills CB Stephon Gilmore considers himself an "elite" CB & eventually wants to be paid that way. BN blog: http://bit.ly/1RzMrlT You can forget a hometown discount when his deal is up. He's right. And why should there be a discount? He should be paid commensurate with peers on his level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 If we let Gilmore, Glenn and/or Incognito walk, we are back to the old Bills model that was a never ending attempt to become a mediocre team. You must resign your best players. Peters, Clements, Lynch, and on and on all walked or traded for picks or let go. When you don't resign your best players you are drafting their replacements for years and years and you never get one that was as good as what you let go. You wind up drafting the players to keep you at status quo and not the players you need to improve your team. Then you lose years training the new guy, waiting for him to develop into an average ballplayer and he never becomes what you lost. Money will always be found for the other players. Pay Gilmore now. But the dude is far from Elite. At least what I would term elite. He's maybe top 15, not top 5. Top 5 is elite. If anyone thought he was elite he would be voted all-pro. He's not for a reason. Heck he did not even get a single vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Agreed. What will likely happen is that he will walk, and the Bills will replace him with a first round defensive back. And it won't really matter if we are winning or losing because this is what the Bills do. The certainty of the Bills drafting first round defensive backs is a large part of what makes your screen name just so fitting. They have re-signed many of their own under Whaley. The ones they let walk play devalued positions. Gilmore ain't going anywhere. What constitutes 'elite' status? Who does Gilmore view as also being In that echelon of players? Gilmore is very good, he is not 'shut down' corner status from what I have seen. I don't think OC's or QB's game plan around him, do you guys? "Shut down" doesn't really exist. Even Revis could be beat when he was on top of the game. Timing/routes, more than the WR's physical attributes would come into play, but it could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInDaDay Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I think the one issue I have with Gilmore is his lack of anticipation. he reacts very well, but it's a glitch in his game that accounts for receivers getting between him, and the ball. had he been defending Decker on that late pick, the Jets may be playing today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 what does Gilmore mentoring Darby have to do with Darby not being the better player? We need to look realistically.....not gonna be able to keep everyone Huh? I was saying Darby is not better than Gilmore, but one of the reasons Darby is as good as he is, is in large part due to Gilmore. In other words, Gilmore's an elite corner based on his play alone but he's even more valuable to the team based on his leadership. I will go as far to say as Gilmore is our Defensive MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) This in a nutshell captures it. Every year, there's numerous idiot fans out there that think the Bills should be in the market for every high end free agent out there, and of course re-sign every player to ridiculous contracts. It's just not realistic. Some of those same people are clamoring to use a high round draft pick on a quarterback to serve as a backup. To what purpose? I'm in no more of a hurry for the Bills to give Gilmore a new deal than I am Tyrod Taylor. Earn it and we'll see what happens. Elite players at some positions make average players at other positions just fine. Well, I think the "best" elite position is QB, and I think that's the purpose. 2 elite CB's can't even prevent your passing D from not being in 20s, but an elite QB is a franchise changer. It makes the other 10 positions on offense better. You don't find that kind of effect at any other position. Huh? I was saying Darby is not better than Gilmore, but one of the reasons Darby is as good as he is, is in large part due to Gilmore. In other words, Gilmore's an elite corner based on his play alone but he's even more valuable to the team based on his leadership. I will go as far to say as Gilmore is our Defensive MVP. GIlmore isn't really a leader, more of a role model and teacher. He doesn't appear to be a vocal leader in the locker room. Plus, if Darby is better than him already with his teachings, he's not necessarily needed to teach Darby anymore. I'd rather let Gilmore walk. Elite CB contracts aren't worth it on your second-best CB. Edited January 9, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Gilmore needs to learn to tackle by wrapping up a guys legs (Antoine Winfield was the best at that). All this shoulder bumping non-tackle stuff will get you hurt while also not stopping the guy with the ball. For this reason alone I am not convinced that Gilmore is as elite as he thinks. That and all the PI/Holding penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well, I think the "best" elite position is QB, and I think that's the purpose. 2 elite CB's can't even prevent your passing D from not being in 20s, but an elite QB is a franchise changer. It makes the other 10 positions on offense better. You don't find that kind of effect at any other position. GIlmore isn't really a leader, more of a role model and teacher. He doesn't appear to be a vocal leader in the locker room. Plus, if Darby is better than him already with his teachings, he's not necessarily needed to teach Darby anymore. True, he's not a vocal leader, but "role model/teacher" is a leader. You need many leaders in a unit, and you need leaders within each position group. Gilmore's leadership has already proven to have a HUGE impact — Darby. And both of them said how important it was to his overall development, with Gilmore mentioning how difficult it was for him to learn the position without any veterans on the team during his first few years. So I don't think that should be overlooked. And I disagree on the last point. Darby is not better than Gilmore, at least not yet. Gilmore needs to learn to tackle by wrapping up a guys legs (Antoine Winfield was the best at that). All this shoulder bumping non-tackle stuff will get you hurt while also not stopping the guy with the ball. For this reason alone I am not convinced that Gilmore is as elite as he thinks. That and all the PI/Holding penalties. I 100% agree with you on the tackling. The team as a whole needs to get better about this, but certainly this is a weakness in Gilmore's game. I don't think he had many PI/Holding penalties this year though. Anyway my overall point is — to not extend Gilmore would be a huge, huge mistake. A guy who's just entering the prime of his career at age 25 and is absolutely a Top 5 corner in the league and you're talking down his value? Y'all are being foolish right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Well, I think the "best" elite position is QB, and I think that's the purpose. 2 elite CB's can't even prevent your passing D from not being in 20s, but an elite QB is a franchise changer. It makes the other 10 positions on offense better. You don't find that kind of effect at any other position. GIlmore isn't really a leader, more of a role model and teacher. He doesn't appear to be a vocal leader in the locker room. Plus, if Darby is better than him already with his teachings, he's not necessarily needed to teach Darby anymore. I'd rather let Gilmore walk. Elite CB contracts aren't worth it on your second-best CB. He's only played 15 games, it's too early to say Darby is elite. Darby also has to prove a lot more before he can even be declared the best CB on the Bills roster. His early season performance (which was dynamic, all of his INTs and 11 of his 21 PDs came in the first quarter of the season, ) was at least partially helped by Gilmore's equally stellar play against the opponents #1 WR. Once Gilmore went down, Darby's play declined as he was asked to take a bigger role. The kid has plenty of game, but Gilmore is still the best CB on this roster and he is a leader in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I wouldn't consider him elite. Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 He's only played 15 games, it's too early to say Darby is elite. Darby also has to prove a lot more before he can even be declared the best CB on the Bills roster. His early season performance (which was dynamic, all of his INTs and 11 of his 21 PDs came in the first quarter of the season, ) was at least partially helped by Gilmore's equally stellar play against the opponents #1 WR. Once Gilmore went down, Darby's play declined as he was asked to take a bigger role. The kid has plenty of game, but Gilmore is still the best CB on this roster and he is a leader in the room. Right, Darby has to prove he can play at this level, no doubt. But he was elite in 2014, and we still had a bad passing D. If Darby plays at an elite next year as well, I let Gilly lock walk. If he doesn't, then this is a different conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Bye Gilmore!!! Great knowin ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Right, Darby has to prove he can play at this level, no doubt. But he was elite in 2014, and we still had a bad passing D. If Darby plays at an elite next year as well, I let Gilly lock walk. If he doesn't, then this is a different conversation. They can't wait until next year to decide on Gilmore though, which is why you have to extend him. Gilmore has 1 year left but his cap number is too high. Extending him now gets you a more reasonable cap figure for this year (and in the future) and allows them to structure the deal so you keep Gilmore and Darby together (arguably the top CB duo in the league) at low cap numbers through Darby's rookie deal which doesn't expire until '19. If Overdorf does the deal right, the Bills could walk away from Gilmore at the end of Darby's rookie deal, just in time to lock Darby in long term. Letting Gilmore go now would be foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Bronson Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Play a full season Gilmore! Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) They can't wait until next year to decide on Gilmore though, which is why you have to extend him. Gilmore has 1 year left but his cap number is too high. Extending him now gets you a more reasonable cap figure for this year (and in the future) and allows them to structure the deal so you keep Gilmore and Darby together (arguably the top CB duo in the league) at low cap numbers through Darby's rookie deal which doesn't expire until '19. If Overdorf does the deal right, the Bills could walk away from Gilmore at the end of Darby's rookie deal, just in time to lock Darby in long term. Letting Gilmore go now would be foolish. What's Gilmore's cap # for 2016 w/o a contract? And what would we reduce it to if we gave him a top 5 CB contract? My contention is that it's not like Gilmore is going to play himself into a higher contract in 2016, you know? Hard to get higher than a top 5 contract. Edited January 9, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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