John in Jax Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 It is clear that the better team can no longer win in the NFL. The refs are in charge of who wins or loses each game. Cheating teams are heralded as best ever. I thought that the refs were all for New England back in 1999-2000, but now I feel it goes back even further. Super Bowl 25 as we all know was a knock out win for Buffalo. Yet somehow Belicheat devises the perfect game plan and we all assume its a legitimate mastermind best ever way to stop one of the best teams ever. Nope we were cheated as fans and it continues now. There is so much money being thrown at games each week in gambling that it would be inconceivable to ignore the fake NFL. These games are all being bought one way or another. We are simply paying for entertainment I pretty much agree with you and think that it's been going on for years, The inconsistency and subjectivity of holding calls (both offensive and the dreaded defensive 5-yard automatic first down) and pass interference calls pretty much would require anybody with eyesight and a functioning brain to say that things are either outright "fixed" or just totally unfair. In any game, in that game, you can see a DB get called for PI or Holding, and then 20 mins. later see another player do the same thing and not get called. And I'm not talking about where an official misses it (doesn't see it), I mean where it's right there in front of his face, but it's not called. The latter happens virtually in every game, every week, with holding and PI calls, and because they are "subjective", they're not subject to video review. Here's an oldie but goodie: For the "Music City Miracle", a Titan blatantly used a hands to the face move/block against Steve Christie just before Dyson scored. It's right there out in the open for everyone to see, as Christie was the last man...you can Google it right now and see it again....it's very apparent as the Titan pushed upwards on Christie's facemask and his head tilts up & back. Titan should have been flagged, and game over, Bills win....but they somehow "missed it." Uh huh, right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thronethinker Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm glad this thread has gained steam. This is a real issue. The NFL has all its scandals, but the one that seems to never be discussed is fixing of games. These games are being decided by the refs. @chdwil1: #FANFLF fans against NFL flags. We are hard working NFL fans. We want legitimate games and less flags. We want our team to win without NFL bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 At first I thought this was insane... but I'm not going to lie, I think you makes a few valid points. I wouldn't say it's rigged quite like the WWE, but I could see how they try to stear certain teams (more likely markets) into a favorable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Good lord. Are you people for real? Or is this just a joke on those of us who respond to this nonsense? I'll indulge regardless. For the record JohnnyGold, on the two Bills TDs that were called back due to penalties this past Sunday, you do realize that the flag was out before the ball passed the line of scrimmage, right? Don Beebe stepped out of bounds just before he caught a TD in the comeback game against Houston. Is that because the Illuminati didn't want Warren Moon to prove that a CFL QB could succeed in the NFL? Tupac is dead. Biggie is dead. And the Bills haven't made the playoffs in 15 years because they've sucked. Not because of some grand master plan. Sit back and enjoy the games as usual. Or not. Your call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilLions Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm not going to indulge your conspiracy theory mindset. You believe what you want and that's your choice. I choose to be a fan and not indulge in this idiocy of look at me I'm mad and won't be fan anymore. Don't go away mad, just go away. Seriously, your giving a fellow Bills fan a hard time for being upset with all this? Start your own blog if you are going to get upset that people can start a new topoc. How does this get on the front page? Mods? Anyone? Really? Start your own blog and stop your whining to moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 What was the over/under in the bills giants game? Also, you have to figure they emphasized keeping the bills on a short leash to the refs leading up to the game all week. Gotta figure the bills were getting most of the action gambling wise, the over seemed a pretty sure lock and the team had a reputation of over aggressiveness after the play. If someone knew that the refs were instructed to call the game tight, that certainly would make the giants a much better bet, and the under a more likely outcome. Even if the points weren't taken off the board by those penalties, the bills weren't covering going into the fourth quarter. It certainly raises questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I just found the over/under at 47 and 43 two different places. That definitely raises some questions with regards to some of those late calls. Remember Donaghy was really trying to influence over/under more than who covers. Gotta figure the best way to hedge that game would be pick the bills to cover and take the under. If the bills win, it's likely running away so they would cover, and if they lose it's likely going under. Going into the fourth the bills weren't covering (shoot at halftime they were pretty much not covering), so anyone hedging there bets is hoping the bills get no calls, lose their composure and get called for all sorts of crazy penalties shooting themselves in the foot and keeping points off the board. The Giants being up, just run out the clock...crazy that's exactly what happened for the most part, until they inexplicably threw on third down (picked) with a chance to ice the game with a field goal. That's when the penalties really started too. Where can we find the betting trends on the game? This really does seem fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I just found the over/under at 47 and 43 two different places. That definitely raises some questions with regards to some of those late calls. Remember Donaghy was really trying to influence over/under more than who covers. Gotta figure the best way to hedge that game would be pick the bills to cover and take the under. If the bills win, it's likely running away so they would cover, and if they lose it's likely going under. Going into the fourth the bills weren't covering (shoot at halftime they were pretty much not covering), so anyone hedging there bets is hoping the bills get no calls, lose their composure and get called for all sorts of crazy penalties shooting themselves in the foot and keeping points off the board. The Giants being up, just run out the clock...crazy that's exactly what happened for the most part, until they inexplicably threw on third down (picked) with a chance to ice the game with a field goal. That's when the penalties really started too. Where can we find the betting trends on the game? This really does seem fishy. Paints the Clay TD getting called back in a different light. I think you're getting close, keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/betting-trends/giants-@-bills.cfm/date/10-04-15/time/1300 I found that...what does it mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/betting-trends/giants-@-bills.cfm/date/10-04-15/time/1300 I found that...what does it mean? I don't know enough about regular betting trends to tell from that data. I think the answers we're looking for are found by putting questionable calls, strange playcalling, and other unusual events side by side with the spread and over/under. Do this over a large sample of data and we should be able to spot pretty quick if there is any funny business. Once Donaghy told officials which games he fixed, they were able to recognize it instantly. Donaghy mentioned that most over/under manipulation was done by refs in the 4th quarter by putting both teams in the bonus (or not depending on over or under). If somebody here is determined and willing to put in the work with the data, and find the NFL equivalent to putting teams in the bonus, that's where I would start. Edited October 7, 2015 by musichunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'll add one more thing. In the Pats game it was probably similar to the Giants game. Spread was around -1 Bills. If it's over, most likely Pats cover the spread, if it's under there's a better chance the Bills cover. Once the score was over 44.5, that's when the Bills went off for 3 straight touchdowns and the penalties stopped. Maybe it's nothing, but something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm pretty nasty with excel (data analyst, but more look at big trends by categorizing and grouping tiny pieces of data together. You get me the data, or point me where i can find it and I'll identify if something doesn't look right. What we need is specific betting amounts. Basically the micro data that lead to the trend in the page I linked to. What about a game lead to the outcome in terms of gambling? Exactly what you were saying...how many 17 penalty games are there where the under came through, or how many drives were extended by defensive holding where the over came through. If there is a situation going on, we should be able to see it without getting too crazy detailed at first, it would be significant. I'll add one more thing. In the Pats game it was probably similar to the Giants game. Spread was around -1 Bills. If it's over, most likely Pats cover the spread, if it's under there's a better chance the Bills cover. Once the score was over 44.5, that's when the Bills went off for 3 straight touchdowns and the penalties stopped. Maybe it's nothing, but something to consider. And all the blame goes to a hot head undisciplined players coach who doesn't hold his players accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The internet is full of all kinds of dumb stuff, theories, stances, etc...but this might be the dumbest. GL to you watching the WNBA and Arena League Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I'm pretty nasty with excel (data analyst, but more look at big trends by categorizing and grouping tiny pieces of data together. You get me the data, or point me where i can find it and I'll identify if something doesn't look right. What we need is specific betting amounts. Basically the micro data that lead to the trend in the page I linked to. What about a game lead to the outcome in terms of gambling? Exactly what you were saying...how many 17 penalty games are there where the under came through, or how many drives were extended by defensive holding where the over came through. If there is a situation going on, we should be able to see it without getting too crazy detailed at first, it would be significant. And all the blame goes to a hot head undisciplined players coach who doesn't hold his players accountable. No clue on specific betting amounts of if that information is publicly available. For your 2nd idea I'd start with pro-football-reference.com game logs. It's going to take some serious data scraping of a lot of page. Here's the Buffalo Bills all-time game logs. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/ Penalties are found under Team Stats: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201509130buf.htm Here's NFL spreads going back to 2006: http://www.footballlocks.com/archived_nfl_odds_lines_point_spreads.shtml I think this one goes back to 1993: http://www.goldsheet.com/histnfl.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 You have to keep in mind that this board, although full of Bills fans are mostly simplistic middle americans. You know the kind of people who think applebees is a great place to spend a friday night. People who think will smith is straight and csi is a good tv show. It is easier for them to be dismissive of the fact that the NFL and its officials are heavily tied to the BILLIONS of dollars illegal sports betting generates. In the words of the great tom cruise: let's not be glib. Don't let these people over run those of us who can still look up and see the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 If you want to look at specific penalties, here's some play by play databases in CSV format: http://nflsavant.com/about.php https://www.spreadsheet-sports.com/free-tools/2013-nfl-play-play-data-excel/ And if you're willing to spend money (I'd look for torrents first): http://www.armchairanalysis.com/data.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 The internet is full of all kinds of dumb stuff, theories, stances, etc...but this might be the dumbest. GL to you watching the WNBA and Arena League Football. Sweet hot take, well thought out and not at all cliche. Telling me to go watch women's basketball was my favorite and most original part of your post...well done! This was less a big deal in the nba, but if this is true and you have people literally giving themselves long term brain damage, committing suicide and murder for your entertainment, and the games are rigged...that's bordering on conspiracy manslaughter, isnt it? Just the idea of a fix being in place is a really bad thing for the nfl and forget about this possibly extending to college, where exploitation is not a choice. You realize Snowden made your comment extremely short sighted, as did Donaghy, Italian soccer, FIFA, and a number of other events. DraftKings and FanDuel literally just got caught yesterday and it wouldn't take some crazy broad conspiracy either. Simply knowing what the refs are emphasizing for a particular game would be more than enough and a huge advantage in and of itself. If you want to look at specific penalties, here's some play by play databases in CSV format: http://nflsavant.com/about.php https://www.spreadsheet-sports.com/free-tools/2013-nfl-play-play-data-excel/ And if you're willing to spend money (I'd look for torrents first): http://www.armchairanalysis.com/data.php Absolutely amazing, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 @ 152 posts ... doesn't seem that you were here very long. Farewell. Hope the grass is greener where ever you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickleyjones Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 ummm, alrighty then; glad to see you now know how to link. And it was with such a meaningful piece of content..... are you saying the OP merits a more thoughtful response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 What were people's take on the string of BFLO penalties in the Miami game? Middle to end of the game when Miami still could have been a factor if they scored another after their first score. The refs really looked like they were trying to push Miami back in it. Fortunately, the Bills were way better than the refs that day and of course jumped all over the Dolphins fast so as to beat the refs. I can tell you right now the refs kept the dolphins alive v the jets in London. Especially in the forth quarter. The refs completely manufactured entire drives for them. The jets forced like 4 3 and outs in a row and wouldn't you know it. A BS call on third down that have them an automatic 1st. It's was ridiculous. But the game was in LONdON. It's much more important that the game be exciting and close rather than a blowout. The NfL needs it to exceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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