NoSaint Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 This is a fair point. I really only see an EJ move happening if we are trying to trade him to get some value out of him before letting him walk for nothing. Full year in the system, with TT and a rookie probably not a ton of reps for someone else. Seems to be very positive and embracing the role. If you find a really established guy stupid cheap - sure. But not realistic. I don't want to spend on the Orton/Fitz type of backup, and most of the cheap guys are not significantly different to eat any hit to swap them out. Minimal so I wouldn't freak out or anything if they make the move but likewise can't imagine being upset he stayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He has perfect size, good arm, and has won games in the NFL. He will get a shot to be a back up with another team, and MIGHT hang on. If he gets into a game or 2 as a back up somewhere, and doesn't blow it, he will be able to hang around. As he ages, hopefully he will become comfortable enough to lose his jitters. Again, I don't want him on the Bills roster, I am merely saying that I could see him hanging around long enough to have limited success as a guy off the bench. It's not really a big compliment. I guess he could. And maybe a change of scenery would help. IMO he is just not a very good football player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Full year in the system, with TT and a rookie probably not a ton of reps for someone else. Seems to be very positive and embracing the role. If you find a really established guy stupid cheap - sure. But not realistic. I don't want to spend on the Orton/Fitz type of backup, and most of the cheap guys are not significantly different to eat any hit to swap them out. Minimal so I wouldn't freak out or anything if they make the move but likewise can't imagine being upset he stayed Say the trade isn't player for player, but for a pick this year. What would you be happy with? That's the other driving issue imo. How does the organization value him and can we get that value realistically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It's funny how one guy with potential is great after 14 games yet the other guy plainly sucks when the two are very close together in the big picture. There is a huge difference here as I see it. I am critical of TT but I have yet to call him a failure, I also would be critical of EJ if he were playing (which he is not). On the other hand many say EJ is a failure. Now I ask you. Who really is the "hater"? Do you think EJ shoud be the starter over TT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Say the trade isn't player for player, but for a pick this year. What would you be happy with? That's the other driving issue imo. How does the organization value him and can we get that value realistically? I'd be fine with just about anything, especially if they've already snagged their alternate guy. You would be trading dead money for a pick at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Do you think EJ shoud be the starter over TT? Have I ever said that the backup should be the starter over TT?? The answer to that is no, I have not. > Please don't use the single post where I had said EJ could finish out the last 2 games so the Bills can showcase him for trade value as proof I said otherwise. IMHO Taylor needs to improve. Period. Thanks for exchanging thoughts. Edited December 23, 2015 by NOVABillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 For clarity sake and not to argue this point. Passing Attempts of 30 or more (Tyrod Taylor stats page) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylTy00.htm NE #1 - 30 Giants - 42 NE #2 - 36 KC - 38 Phi - 36 Let me try to spell it out for you. WINS and LOSSES Stats don't mean **** when the L's are equal to or greater than W's. Wins and losses are on the team. This is not tennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) I guess he could. And maybe a change of scenery would help. IMO he is just not a very good football player. Fair enough. I just think there are many crap QB's with jobs, and if he goes somewhere else, has a game or 2 of success, his reputation as "a decent back up" could sustain a 10+ year career. Edited December 23, 2015 by HoF Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Have I ever said that the backup should be the starter over TT?? IMHO Taylor needs to improve. Period. Thanks for exchanging thoughts. I don't know? That's why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Let me try to spell it out for you. WINS and LOSSES Stats don't mean **** when the L's are equal to or greater than W's. Damn NOVA, this signature worthy, its that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He's not my guy. I'm just laughing at the overboard manner in which you and the other Anti Manuelites carry yourselves. He will have a job as a backup for a long time. I know that will displease you for some reason, I believe that would be called hating. So someone's contrarian opinion is overboard? As for the word "hating" I guess with a limited vocabulary for some it works. I do not " hate" the man EJ Manuel. In fact find him to be a nice guy. i think he sucks as a football player though. Biig difference there. Look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 So someone's contrarian opinion is overboard? As for the word "hating" I guess with a limited vocabulary for some it works. I do not " hate" the man EJ Manuel. In fact find him to be a nice guy. i think he sucks as a football player though. Biig difference there. Look it up. Feel better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Damn NOVA, this signature worthy, its that good. LOL Wins and losses are on the team. This is not tennis. Funny that. The QB gets credit for wins yet the team gets credit for losses. [edit unless his name is EJ] You do know that the QB touches the ball 98% of every offensive snap right. Therefore the onus is on him to succeed, to make the right reads and get the play going before he gets a delay of game penalty. Curious.. How many delay of game penalties have the Bills accumulated this season? (w/o communication equipment problems) Edited December 23, 2015 by NOVABillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) LOL Funny that. The QB gets credit for wins yet the team gets credit for losses. You do know that the QB touched the ball 98% of every offensive snap right. Therefore the onus is on him to succeed. Our offense went from 21.4 points per game in 2014 to 24.4 points per game in 2015. Our defense went from allowing 18.1 points per game to allowing 24 points per game. Who is the onus on? Funny, when our O scored more on average that our D allowed we had a winning record, now our O scores basically the same as our D allows and we might be 8-8 Edited December 23, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) I debated if I should respond to the continuing discussion because Taylor fans are getting upset because of some criticism. We all agree the Defense was much worse than last season. For the Season - 5 games of 14 the opponents scored more than 25 points. 7 games the Bills scored under the average of 24, 3 of which were 10, 13, and 14. Much like last season there were too way many 3 and outs on offense. When you can eliminate those, sustain drives and force good field position the defense stays off of the field. Our offense went from 21.4 points per game in 2014 to 24.4 points per game in 2015. Our defense went from allowing 18.1 points per game to allowing 24 points per game. Who is the onus on? Funny, when our O scored more on average that our D allowed we had a winning record, now our O scores basically the same as our D allows and we might be 8-8 I may be wrong but IIRC, the offense in 2013 was ranked about 6 points higher (scored more PPG on avg?) than it did in 2014. Edited December 23, 2015 by NOVABillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I debated if I should respond to the continuing discussion because Taylor fans are getting upset because of some criticism. We all agree the Defense was much worse than last season. For the Season - 5 games of 14 the opponents scored more than 25 points. 7 games the Bills scored under the average of 24, 3 of which were 10, 13, and 14. Much like last season there were too way many 3 and outs on offense. When you can eliminate those, sustain drives and force good field position the defense stays off of the field. I may be wrong but IIRC, the offense in 2013 was ranked about 6 points higher (scored more PPG on avg?) than it did in 2014. 2015 O: 24.4 (Rank 13) 2015 D: 24.0 (Rank 21) 2014 O: 21.4 (Rank 26) 2014 D: 18.1 (Rank 4) 2013 O: 21.2 (Rank 19) 2013 D: 24.3 (Rank 10) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 LOL Funny that. The QB gets credit for wins yet the team gets credit for losses. [edit unless his name is EJ] You do know that the QB touches the ball 98% of every offensive snap right. Therefore the onus is on him to succeed, to make the right reads and get the play going before he gets a delay of game penalty. Curious.. How many delay of game penalties have the Bills accumulated this season? (w/o communication equipment problems) Yes, I get that he handles the ball that many times and 50% of those he hands the ball to someone else right away. Did you notice how late he gets the calls from the OC? Did you notice how many time-out we had to use because of this? Wins and losses are team wins and losses even if you are EJ. From time to time one player is responsible for a win or a loss, but it's a team game. QB's put up huge numbers in games where they end up losing because the D allowed 40 points. Running backs fumble, receivers drop balls, returners drop punts, players commit penalties, kickers miss kicks, defenders blow coverages, defenders get big pass interference calls against them, coaches screw up challenges and play calls, refs screw up. All of these things happen "over and above" of what the QB does. QB's are a huge part of any franchise, but you are trying way too hard to pin this season on TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 For clarity sake and not to argue this point. Passing Attempts of 30 or more (Tyrod Taylor stats page) http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylTy00.htm NE #1 - 30 Giants - 42 NE #2 - 36 KC - 38 Phi - 36 Let me try to spell it out for you. WINS and LOSSES Stats don't mean **** when the L's are equal to or greater than W's. The defense was #2 last year and is 29 now (according to PFF). Does that not play a role in wins and losses? I am just trying to spell it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 TT will be the starter going into next season and EJ will be trying to win a backup job for another team, that's just the simple truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsBlues Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I thought this was a new post about how EJ should start the next two games to see what we have with him. My brain almost exploded. Luckily this was from August 2015 and I am feeling much better haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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