YoloinOhio Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Do we have to be so literal? Let's not be naive here. There is a whole lotta 'she had it comin to her' mentality in this thread. Can't say I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I see a whole lotta 'she isn't without guilt in this situation' in this thread. This. Though I'll admit the line between the two can be thin and blurry and it's hard to tell sometimes which side people are dancing on. It seems to be Truth though, these days it's hard to point out personal responsibility which contributes to a situation without being tagged as "blaming the victim", a situation exacerbated by the fact that there is usually a good deal of actual "victim blaming" going on concurrently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yes we do have to be literal, because not a single person excused the punch. But if Johnson stopped at the point of holding her wrist and then just pushed her away after she kneed and hit him, he'd be fine, and everyone would be talking about her being the instigator. "No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO." That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 "No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO." That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol So you don't understand the written word. There's a big leap from describing her role in the altercation and stating that she deserved to get cold cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) "No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO." That's just one example. There are others, including from one poster who called me a "white knight" for daring to defend this woman lol I think you are lumping posters together who think she did something wrong (independently of Johnson doing something worse) and random posts that you feel implied that she deserved to be hit by Johnson. I say this because you respond to both the same way. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than I and others have. There is a difference, but you don't seem to see it. Gotta admit I find your post kind of insulting, for that reason. Edited July 9, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That is disturbing to say the least. There is absolutely no excuse for his behavior. I don't care what she did. He should be charged with assault and that place should be shut down. Obviously serving underage students. Not that they are the first or last to do this in a college town, but there is no reaction by the bartenders or anyone in any capacity. Having tended bar in some very busy places, you have to deal with that immediately. they did not give her any aid,and they did not seem to alert security or management. This is an aspect I haven't heard much discussion of or any news. The way the bartenders reacted (or didn't), it was like that whole altercation was "business as usual" and they were the "see no evil, hear no evil" Bar Monkeys. And yeah, there's the whole age thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 This. Though I'll admit the line between the two can be thin and blurry and it's hard to tell sometimes which side people are dancing on. It seems to be Truth though, these days it's hard to point out personal responsibility which contributes to a situation without being tagged as "blaming the victim", a situation exacerbated by the fact that there is usually a good deal of actual "victim blaming" going on concurrently. Good post. I think you are lumping posters together who think she did something wrong (independently of Johnson doing something worse) and random posts that you feel implied that she deserved to be hit by Johnson. I say this because you respond to both the same way. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than I and others have. There is a difference, but you don't seem to see it. Gotta admit I find your post kind of insulting, for that reason. Not at all. That's not my intent, sorry if my posts somehow come across that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So you don't understand the written word. There's a big leap from describing her role in the altercation and stating that she deserved to get cold cocked. There's also a leap between stating people are using innuendo from the cold-cocker's lawyer as a tool "to make the victim look like she deserved what she got" and thinking or stating that the same posters really believe that she got what she deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 So you don't understand the written word. There's a big leap from describing her role in the altercation and stating that she deserved to get cold cocked. In general, I see most people here as saying "Johnson did something wrong" and "girl, independent of anything Johnson did, did something wrong" which I view as correct. I will say that the words "you have a pretty good case of self defense IMO" seems pretty close to saying "the girl deserved to get punched"? But perhaps the confusion results from the person posting not understanding the legal concept of "self defense"? I'm not a lawyer, but to my understanding, the concept hinges on imminent threat of bodily harm for which less forceful responses are not reasonably available. That's the whole "if someone threatens you on your front lawn and you can reasonably run inside, lock your door, and call police, you don't get to haul out a gun and shoot them and claim self defense, but if they grab a tire iron, smash in your door, and enter the house whilst police are enroute, you can" bit? "If the threat involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. If, however, the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail." Yeah, the girl did something wrong, but to assert "you have a pretty good case of self defense" as the post to which you're responding did, seems to me to come pretty close to saying the girl "had it coming to her" because she used "deadly force", no? I for one have trouble thinking "deadly force" about a girl tid-bit sitting on a bar stool throwing a wild punch at a football player who already has ahold of one of her arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 In general, I see most people here as saying "Johnson did something wrong" and "girl, independent of anything Johnson did, did something wrong" which I view as correct. I will say that the words "you have a pretty good case of self defense IMO" seems pretty close to saying "the girl deserved to get punched"? But perhaps the confusion results from the person posting not understanding the legal concept of "self defense"? I'm not a lawyer, but to my understanding, the concept hinges on imminent threat of bodily harm for which less forceful responses are not reasonably available. That's the whole "if someone threatens you on your front lawn and you can reasonably run inside, lock your door, and call police, you don't get to haul out a gun and shoot them and claim self defense, but if they grab a tire iron, smash in your door, and enter the house whilst police are enroute, you can" bit? "If the threat involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. If, however, the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail." Yeah, the girl did something wrong, but to assert "you have a pretty good case of self defense" as the post to which you're responding did, seems to me to come pretty close to saying the girl "had it coming to her" because she used "deadly force", no? I for one have trouble thinking "deadly force" about a girl tid-bit sitting on a bar stool throwing a wild punch at a football player who already has ahold of one of her arms. Yeah, I tend to be leary of anyone who starts a post with "He decked her because she..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd like to know the origin of the term, "cold cocked." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd like to know the origin of the term, "cold cocked." Eskimos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yeah, I tend to be leary of anyone who starts a post with "He decked her because she..." Can you explain your moral position by some kind of objective standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Can you explain your moral position by some kind of objective standard? He's offended by causality. DeAndre decked her because she called him an N and hit him in the face. That is the story as we know it. Whether he was justified in decking her is a different matter which many people participating in this thread cannot seem to separate from DeAndre's motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 He's offended by causality. DeAndre decked her because she called him an N and hit him in the face. That is the story as we know it. Whether he was justified in decking her is a different matter which many people participating in this thread cannot seem to separate from DeAndre's motive. But we don't know that she called him anything. All we know is what we see on the video. Outside of that we're just speculating and/or making stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 But we don't know that she called him anything. All we know is what we see on the video. Outside of that we're just speculating and/or making stuff up. Do we even know that much? How can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 He's offended by causality. DeAndre decked her because she called him an N and hit him in the face. That is the story as we know it. Whether he was justified in decking her is a different matter which many people participating in this thread cannot seem to separate from DeAndre's motive. That's because some people mistake their feelings for thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Here's the full video - go to 1:49 mark and judge for yourself on whether he pushed her hard enough to upset her delicate southern belle sensibilities. Thanks for this. Here's what I see: A group of women are tying up one of the only access points to a busy bar and everyone's probably getting irritated trying to get up there for a drink. Our moderately drunk blonde is off to the right, behind the dude with the glasses. Johnson is just behind the group tying up access. When the group starts to leave blondie slides in next to glasses dude and Johnson shoves her (which gets her attention) then grabs the underside of the bar counter with his arms to help leverage himself through the space up to the bar. I believe this further pins blondie up against the bar and she turns back around raises her right fist with her thumb out. Johnson grabs her wrist at which point you can actually see blondie mouth the words "hey, hey" and start to struggle against him and try to gain separation (leg, etc). Finally she tries a weak punch and everyone knows the rest. After watching the entire video I feel like she was trying to explain to him that she was next and using her thumb to point out where she had been or something to that effect. I don't see her as being overly aggressive beyond the fact that she felt she was next in line. Having the whole video helps. But who knows what truly happened. Edited July 9, 2015 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Eskimos. Eskimo brothers, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I'd like to know the origin of the term, "cold cocked." I've heard 3 different versions. 1) that it originated with cockney rhyming slang, "cocked" = "knocked" 2) that it originated with early firearms, where the priming gunpowder needed to be touched off with a match, the firearm was loaded and "cold cocked", then fired 3) that it originated with rooster-fighting, where a "cold rooster" was "knocked out" or "dead" Edited July 9, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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