Magox Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I think you misunderstand what I'm saying in response to you meeting a lot of Libertarians in a Liberal city. Libertarians and Liberals both dislike regulation on one's personal matters, so they share that social view. Young people are increasingly cynical of our government/current representation, which would naturally push them towards small government ideals. Combine liberal social views + government cynicism, you get libertarianism. Your experiences make sense. I agree, and I think the minimum should be set in each county, vs an unrealistically high federal wage. As far as LA, I don't know what it takes out there to provide for yourself. But as I've said in another thread, I do believe places where the cost of living is high, the minimum wage should be higher. $10/hr in LA or NYC gets a lot less than $10/hr in Alabama. And yes, I know the response is "Well, just move" (which I agree to disagree on)... but I just wanted to clarify that I don't think some lofty amount should be the minimum wage universally. As far as healthcare goes, I support a single payer option for all legal residents. It's not the responsibility of the company to provide a "living wage" to it's employees. I'm more in favor of a "fair working wage". Fair to both the employee and the employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 As far as LA, I don't know what it takes out there to provide for yourself. But as I've said in another thread, I do believe places where the cost of living is high, the minimum wage should be higher. $10/hr in LA or NYC gets a lot less than $10/hr in Alabama. I bet you hate large corporations, too, amirite? All those Wal-Mart CEOs of the world, making tens of millions on the backs of the small, right? C'mon, you know you believe it. And if you hate large corporations, you probably wave that bright "Support your local businesses" flag, amirite? Go to your local hardware store, not Home Depot! Go to your local farmers market, not Wegmans! Guess whose business dies when the rate gets forced to $15 an hour? And when the little guys you profess to support start closing shop, like they're doing in Seattle, guess who gets bigger? That's the problem with liberals. Your ideas sound fine until they're not longer just ideas. Then they become Detroit and Baltimore. But hey...$15 an hour is only fair in the big cities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I bet you hate large corporations, too, amirite? All those Wal-Mart CEOs of the world, making tens of millions on the backs of the small, right? C'mon, you know you believe it. And if you hate large corporations, you probably wave that bright "Support your local businesses" flag, amirite? Go to your local hardware store, not Home Depot! Go to your local farmers market, not Wegmans! Guess whose business dies when the rate gets forced to $15 an hour? And when the little guys you profess to support start closing shop, like they're doing in Seattle, guess who gets bigger? That's the problem with liberals. Your ideas sound fine until they're not longer just ideas. Then they become Detroit and Baltimore. But hey...$15 an hour is only fair in the big cities! This is why I have you on ignore (and I don't know what compelled me to view this response). You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. It's not the responsibility of the company to provide a "living wage" to it's employees. I'm more in favor of a "fair working wage". Fair to both the employee and the employer. It's not the responsibility of the company, its the responsibility of the government to regulate in ways that protect it's citizens, hence why there is a minimum wage in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 This is why I have you on ignore (and I don't know what compelled me to view this response). You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. If I'm not being accurate, tell me how what I wrote is inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) This is why I have you on ignore (and I don't know what compelled me to view this response). You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. It's not the responsibility of the company, its the responsibility of the government to regulate in ways that protect it's citizens, hence why there is a minimum wage in the first place. The intention of the law was NOT to provide a "living wage" it was so that companies wouldn't exploit their employees and pay a fair wage. Modern day liberalism, has changed the intentions from paying a fair wage to a "living wage". That is a handout. Edited May 20, 2015 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I think you misunderstand what I'm saying in response to you meeting a lot of Libertarians in a Liberal city. Libertarians and Liberals both dislike regulation on one's personal matters, so they share that social view. Young people are increasingly cynical of our government/current representation, which would naturally push them towards small government ideals. Combine liberal social views + government cynicism, you get libertarianism. Your experiences make sense. Sorry, but I don't see a lot of liberals voicing concern about government intrusion into personal matters. In fact, I see liberals using the might of government to micromanage not only peoples' lives, but their property, possessions, and their general attitude towards others as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Sorry, but I don't see a lot of liberals voicing concern about government intrusion into personal matters. In fact, I see liberals using the might of government to micromanage not only peoples' lives, but their property, possessions, and their general attitude towards others as well. They want the government to stay out of their reproductive lives. Well, except to provide birth control. And pay for abortions. And pay for prenatal care and the delivery facility. And mandate/pay for maternity leave, day care, etc. But otherwise, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Sorry, but I don't see a lot of liberals voicing concern about government intrusion into personal matters. In fact, I see liberals using the might of government to micromanage not only peoples' lives, but their property, possessions, and their general attitude towards others as well. Just like Jesus did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Just like Jesus did! Now you're just obfuscating. Next you'll be bringing facts into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) This is why I have you on ignore (and I don't know what compelled me to view this response). You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. It's not the responsibility of the company, its the responsibility of the government to regulate in ways that protect it's citizens, hence why there is a minimum wage in the first place. But he's sorta right, right? What're the effects of raising minimum wage? Who is hurt more? Where does the money come from? Why is it unreasonable to expect somebody who can't afford to live someplace, to move somewhere cheaper? Don't some of us do that already? Live within our means? If you want a swanky downtown apartment, make more money. Edited May 20, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 They want the government to stay out of their reproductive lives. Well, except to provide birth control. And pay for abortions. And pay for prenatal care and the delivery facility. And mandate/pay for maternity leave, day care, etc. But otherwise, yeah. Pretty much sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) But he's sorta right, right? What're the effects of raising minimum wage? Who is hurt more? Where does the money come from? Why is it unreasonable to expect somebody who can't afford to live someplace, to move somewhere cheaper? Don't some of us do that already? Live within our means? If you want a swanky downtown apartment, make more money. a swanky downtown apt? talk about a strawman. almost all would settle for a shared safe studio in queens or the bronx. and if none can afford that then who is going to be the doormen, change the sheets, do the laundry, pick up the garbage, maintain the sewers and clean the streets for all them rich folks on the upper east side? you think they'll do for themselves? they'll gladly pay $15 /hour then. Edited May 21, 2015 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 a swanky downtown apt? talk about a strawman. almost all would settle for a shared safe studio in queens or the bronx. and if none can afford that then who is going to be the doormen, change the sheets, do the laundry, pick up the garbage, maintain the sewers and clean the streets for all them rich folks on the upper east side? you think they'll do for themselves? they'll gladly pay $15 /hour then. If there are less doormen, their salary might go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 a swanky downtown apt? talk about a strawman. almost all would settle for a shared safe studio in queens or the bronx. and if none can afford that then who is going to be the doormen, change the sheets, do the laundry, pick up the garbage, maintain the sewers and clean the streets for all them rich folks on the upper east side? you think they'll do for themselves? they'll gladly pay $15 /hour then. Most of those jobs you just mentioned are far from minimum wage jobs. Talk about a strawman argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Sorry, but I don't see a lot of liberals voicing concern about government intrusion into personal matters. In fact, I see liberals using the might of government to micromanage not only peoples' lives, but their property, possessions, and their general attitude towards others as well. Micromanaging our lives? You watch too much Sean Hannity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Micromanaging our lives? You watch too much Sean Hannity I don't watch Hannity at all. Your friends at the NSA could have told you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't watch Hannity at all. Your friends at the NSA could have told you that. But don't Liberals micromanage what you watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Most of those jobs you just mentioned are far from minimum wage jobs. Talk about a strawman argument. That's the hallmark of most of these liberal "social justice" arguments - a laundry list of "injustices" that don't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 But don't Liberals micromanage what you watch? They would if they could, but they can't, so they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) This is why I have you on ignore (and I don't know what compelled me to view this response). You just put a whole lot of words in my mouth. It's not the responsibility of the company, its the responsibility of the government to regulate in ways that protect it's citizens, hence why there is a minimum wage in the first place. Is it the responsibility of the government to stop illegal immigrants from entering and working in the country at lower wages than would be paid to citizens in order to protect American workers? Edited May 21, 2015 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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