Harvin: The world hasnt seen me explode like I'm about to

[Kelly the Dog]

Marshawn is another good example. He's not the most upstanding citizen. He does stupid things at times. But simultaneously he works his ass off. His teammates love him. He doesn't destroy teams, overall he's a tremendous positive, which is why they sign guys like that to 10m contracts.

[NoSaint]

Marshawn is another good example. He's not the most upstanding citizen. He does stupid things at times. But simultaneously he works his ass off. His teammates love him. He doesn't destroy teams, overall he's a tremendous positive, which is why they sign guys like that to 10m contracts.

KTD - if harvin is a good guy that works his butt off and never had a problem with a teammate, then why did he fall in the draft, get booted from minnesota, and so quickly from seattle?

 

hes incredibly talented, and surely works hard to maintain that ability but i think you are getting pretty carried away trying to make your point. intended or not, its reading kind of like FC with manziel.

 

he comes with baggage and that includes being a guy that has attacked a coach, had to be restrained from a fight with another, and things like wilson not publicly calling him out dont make me think there werent issues there as rumored, realistically.

Edited April 7, 2015 by NoSaint

[Kelly the Dog]

KTD - if harvin is a good guy that works his butt off and never had a problem with a teammate, then why did he fall in the draft, get booted from minnesota, and so quickly from seattle?

 

hes incredibly talented, and surely works hard to maintain that ability but i think you are getting pretty carried away trying to make your point. intended or not, its reading kind of like FC with manziel.

 

he comes with baggage and that includes being a guy that has attacked a coach, had to be restrained from a fight with another, and things like wilson not publicly calling him out dont make me think there werent issues there as rumored, realistically.

Minnesota, knowing the kind of guy he was, also signed him to a 6 year, 64m contract with 12m guaranteed several years ago. Seattle, also knowing the kind of guy he was, traded a first, a third and a seventh round pick for him. Teams don't throw that money or draft picks around on guys very often. Again, I am not saying he is a saint. I'm sure he rubbed people the wrong way numerous times.

 

This is also somewhat of a personal thing for me. I usually like guys like that, whom everyone jumps on when you don't really know what happened. I'm not saying I do for 100% sure either. But you usually do learn more and more over time, and these guys are not always as they are portrayed. I used to support TO not because he was a good guy, but because a lot of divas loafed when they didn't get the ball, like Randy Moss and others. TO used to block like crazy, tried all the time even in practice, rarely took plays off. That was a totally different story. I really don't care all that much what these guys do off the field. We all knew Kelly, Thurman and Bruce were jerks 90% of their careers. But they were great teammates and great to have.

[C.Biscuit97]

Minnesota, knowing the kind of guy he was, also signed him to a 6 year, 64m contract with 12m guaranteed several years ago. Seattle, also knowing the kind of guy he was, traded a first, a third and a seventh round pick for him. Teams don't throw that money or draft picks around on guys very often. Again, I am not saying he is a saint. I'm sure he rubbed people the wrong way numerous times.

 

This is also somewhat of a personal thing for me. I usually like guys like that, whom everyone jumps on when you don't really know what happened. I'm not saying I do for 100% sure either. But you usually do learn more and more over time, and these guys are not always as they are portrayed. I used to support TO not because he was a good guy, but because a lot of divas loafed when they didn't get the ball, like Randy Moss and others. TO used to block like crazy, tried all the time even in practice, rarely took plays off. That was a totally different story. I really don't care all that much what these guys do off the field. We all knew Kelly, Thurman and Bruce were jerks 90% of their careers. But they were great teammates and great to have.

Personally, I liked a guy like Hines Ward much better than I liked TO. Blocked his butt off on run plays, never took a play off.

 

Hines Ward is more than player you want. It's part of the reason he has a ring and TO doesn't. No player is above the team and far too often, TO and Harvin have been.

Marshawn is another good example. He's not the most upstanding citizen. He does stupid things at times. But simultaneously he works his ass off. His teammates love him. He doesn't destroy teams, overall he's a tremendous positive, which is why they sign guys like that to 10m contracts.

One might argue that Lynch helped destroy the Bills by doing dumb stuff off the field, getting suspended and forcing their hand with a trade.

 

I will say there are no reports of Lynch arguing with coaches since high school. And it "seems" like Lynch has grown up somewhat. Harvin is on his 4th team.

 

IMO, there are far too many talented players to keep taking chances on problem childs. As a Bills fan, I certainly hope for the best with Harvin. But I think part of his issue has been getting enabled because of his talent.

[NoSaint]

Minnesota, knowing the kind of guy he was, also signed him to a 6 year, 64m contract with 12m guaranteed several years ago. Seattle, also knowing the kind of guy he was, traded a first, a third and a seventh round pick for him. Teams don't throw that money or draft picks around on guys very often. Again, I am not saying he is a saint. I'm sure he rubbed people the wrong way numerous times.

a small, but important distinction is didnt seattle sign him to that deal?

 

One might argue that minnesota knowing the kind of guy he was didnt want to commit to him and seattle after giving picks and a monster deal found out what type of guy he was and didnt keep him. this included a physical fight with a teammate in the locker room (keeping with the theme of him fighting with teammates/coaches at every stop since college, except his 2 months in NY).

 

he got the trade and contract because hes electric on the field. plenty of jerks out there get second and third chances. on the plus side, being a 1 year deal its pretty low risk for us.

[Kelly the Dog]

a small, but important distinction is didnt seattle sign him to that deal?

 

One might argue that minnesota knowing the kind of guy he was didnt want to commit to him and seattle after giving picks and a monster deal found out what type of guy he was and didnt keep him. this included a physical fight with a teammate in the locker room (keeping with the theme of him fighting with teammates/coaches at every stop since college, except his 2 months in NY).

 

he got the trade and contract because hes electric on the field. plenty of jerks out there get second and third chances. on the plus side, being a 1 year deal its pretty low risk for us.

Yes, my bad. I thought Minn had signed him but it was the Seahawks. Good point. Still, the Seahawks are known as perhaps the best run franchise of the last three years. They gave up a lot to get him and THEN gave him a huge deal, knowing he had had run-ins with teammates, coaches and referees. (All of that stuff, when you read about it, seems very, very minor to me, btw). He's a hot head. Big deal.

 

I personally think Seattle decided they just didn't need him, and were proven correct. They also let Golden Tate go and didn't really try that hard to re-sign him before they got rid of Harvin, and Tate was a tremendous receiver and talent, too.

Now, LaGarette Blount? He's just a bad guy.

[NoSaint]

(All of that stuff, when you read about it, seems very, very minor to me, btw)

hes said to have literally choke slammed his wr coach at florida. genuinely, im curious given that context what would it take to be a major locker room incident for you?

[Kelly the Dog]

hes said to have literally choke slammed his wr coach at florida. genuinely, im curious given that context what would it take to be a major locker room incident for you?

If he actually choked the guy and slammed him down I would consider that very serious, yes. And entirely unacceptable. I also think he would have been kicked off the team for good if it happened that way.

I heard the story, don't know what happened. The coach it happened to said it was overblown. So who knows.

[C.Biscuit97]

A guy like Urban Meyer won't enable players' behavior to win would he?

 

If guys aren't checked on their behavior in college or high school, they become entitled. See a guy on the same team by the name of Hernandez.

Edited April 7, 2015 by C.Biscuit97

[Kelly the Dog]

A guy like Urban Meyer won't enable players' behavior to win would him?

 

If guys aren't checked on their behavior in college or high school, they become entitled. See a guy on the same team by the name of Hernadez.

Welcome to the real world. I very much doubt that anything Urban Meyer did or didn't do had anything to do with Hernandez murdering people. Zero. Nice try.

[3rdand12]

hmmm.... Felton, McCoy, Clay, Harvin, Watkins Plus a marginal, run game QB and 5 O Linemen. Guess who the odd man out is. Only way Woods sees the field is if Felton or Harvin comes out. Not sure that's gonna happen much.

ha

[NoSaint]

Welcome to the real world. I very much doubt that anything Urban Meyer did or didn't do had anything to do with Hernandez murdering people. Zero. Nice try.

but he was likely well aware of the incidents in clubs, fights, guns, drug use, etc..... which i think has to make you question his discipline of star players.

[FireChan]

Welcome to the real world. I very much doubt that anything Urban Meyer did or didn't do had anything to do with Hernandez murdering people. Zero. Nice try.

Nah, Hernandez killed people because Urban bought him a nice watch once. Get your facts.

[C.Biscuit97]

Welcome to the real world. I very much doubt that anything Urban Meyer did or didn't do had anything to do with Hernandez murdering people. Zero. Nice try.

Missed the point. AH got in a bunch of trouble at Florida that got swept under the rug. Same with Harvin.

 

I'm all for second chances but we have too many enablers in society. If Harvin got put in his place early, maybe he isn't bouncing around the NFL. Same with a guy like TO.

 

I agree with you on most issues. But it seems like you are enabling Harvin's behavior. Obviously, the only thing that matters now is if he grew up. But with strong consequences, I don't think he bounces around from team to team.

[BmarvB]

As long as he can produce without making a headache of himself, he's welcome here.

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

but he was likely well aware of the incidents in clubs, fights, guns, drug use, etc..... which i think has to make you question his discipline of star players.

Like I said, welcome to the real world. A lot of coaches since sports began treat their star players differently, and they play under different rules. One of them, four years later, turned out to be a murderer. Meyer has zero responsibility or culpability for that.

 

I don't know what happened with that incident, which happened about 5-6 years ago when he was a sophomore. To me, when you hear a 19 year old kid "choked" someone, if he grabbed him with two hands and literally choked him and held his hands there in a rage and had to be pulled off before something really awful happened, that's a major issue, and he should have been kicked off the team. If, however, the other person got in his face and they squared off and someone put a hand on the other and Harvin put one hand on the guy's neck for one second in a choke hold, which kids in fights do every day, I would not think it was nearly the same thing.

 

Harvin sounded like a total punk in college. Newsflash. There are millions of total punks in college, footballers and just plain punks.

[C.Biscuit97]

As long as he can produce without making a headache of himself, he's welcome here.

GO BILLS!!!

But that's kinda of the point. I'd like to think no human being could be dumb enough to miss up possibly their last chance at the NFL.

 

But this is a guy who couldn't get along with Carroll and Russell Wilson on a SB contender.

 

To pretend like there shouldn't be any concern is completely naive.

[Kelly the Dog]

Missed the point. AH got in a bunch of trouble at Florida that got swept under the rug. Same with Harvin.

 

I'm all for second chances but we have too many enablers in society. If Harvin got put in his place early, maybe he isn't bouncing around the NFL. Same with a guy like TO.

 

I agree with you on most issues. But it seems like you are enabling Harvin's behavior. Obviously, the only thing that matters now is if he grew up. But with strong consequences, I don't think he bounces around from team to team.

Hundreds of thousands of athletes all over the world when they are stars get special treatment and are enabled for the last 100 years since Babe Ruth became a sports God. A handful have become murderers and I would argue would have become murderers anyway.

But that's kinda of the point. I'd like to think no human being could be dumb enough to miss up possibly their last chance at the NFL.

 

But this is a guy who couldn't get along with Carroll and Russell Wilson on a SB contender.

 

To pretend like there shouldn't be any concern is completely naive.

If he didnt play with Ryan and Sanjay last year and been a great teammate I would be quite worried that there could be an incident. After what happened and listening closely to what several people said about what happened last year, I would be much more shocked if there were trouble than I would be if there was none. There is going to be none. I will bet anything on it. I could be wrong, too.

[machine gun kelly]

I agree with the Sammy comment and whether it's EJ or Cassel they have a heck of a lot of targets now and Shady has good hands.

 

We are a TE and Guard away from having. Ice ball control offense. I don't care about trying to be the Saints in offense. I always prefer the Seahawks type of offense.

[NoSaint]

Hundreds of thousands of athletes all over the world when they are stars get special treatment and are enabled for the last 100 years since Babe Ruth became a sports God. A handful have become murderers and I would argue would have become murderers anyway.

 

If he didnt play with Ryan and Sanjay last year and been a great teammate I would be quite worried that there could be an incident. After what happened and listening closely to what several people said about what happened last year, I would be much more shocked if there were trouble than I would be if there was none. There is going to be none. I will bet anything on it. I could be wrong, too.

Situationally, Id agree odds are he's generally fine (as long as things don't go surprisingly bad with the team or his role). But you are putting a lot of stock into roughly 55 days and a guy who committed to the likes of santonio Holmes too. Imo the biggest thing is he NEEDS a contract in less than a year, not that rex knew him for a couple weeks (though it's nice that he did)