Buftex Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Patriots kicking the tires on some running back by the name of Clifford James Spiller Jr... beware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The way that team is managed, if they didn't have brady they're the laughingstock of the league. Poor drafting, zero player allegiance, cheating etc. Amazing how one qb can cover up so much mediocrity. Is this really true? 2008 season WITHOUT Tom Brady, and Cassel as their QB, the Pats missed the playoffs with an 11-5 record, and went 4-2 in division games. That's pretty decent without Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I don't know what you guys are talking about. They still have this guy named Rob Gronkowski. Not sure if you've heard of him. Edelman's pretty good and they could end up with a RB like Melvin Gordon or Todd Gurley in the draft. Either one is an upgrade over Ridley and Blount IMO. Arrington, McCourty, and Chung are decent enough in the secondary and they still have the NFL draft to fill those needs. Chandler, Collins and Ninkovich, and Donta Hightower are also solid players. Sure they lost some high profile players but Belichik has done more with less. ...and Revis, Suh and McCoy have been added by the other teams in the division. The Pats are worse at this point and the rest of the division is better. That is the definition of the gap closing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) ...and Revis, Suh and McCoy have been added by the other teams in the division. The Pats are worse at this point and the rest of the division is better. That is the definition of the gap closing. Not really. Definition of closing the gap is beating the Patriots in actual games and taking the division from the Patriots. Until the other teams do so, no team has closed the gap. You can look at the rosters and drool over the players each team has but at the end of the day, all that matters is wins and losses. A couple years ago, we signed Mario Williams, the Jets still had Revis, and the Fins signed Mike Wallace in free agency. No gap was closed This is the definition of closing the gap. Edited March 11, 2015 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Not really. Definition of closing the gap is beating the Patriots in actual games and taking the division from the Patriots. Until the other teams do so, no team has closed the gap. You can look at the rosters and drool over the players each team has but at the end of the day, all that matters is wins and losses. A couple years ago, we signed Mario Williams, the Jets still had Revis, and the Fins signed Mike Wallace in free agency. No gap was closed This is the definition of closing the gap. So you believe that (as an example) Revis going from the Pats to the Jets doesn't bring the Jets closer to the Pats? Sorry, not buying it. It doesn't mean that the Jets are better than the Pats but the Patriots losing their best defensive player and the Jets gaining that guy brings them closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 The pats have been "losing free agency" for 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Until proven otherwise, no. But they've probably maxed out on SB wins, seemingly having exhausted all the ways there are to cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 This is crazy to me. They can still be the team to beat while regressing. They just lost their best defensive player to a division rival but people are acting like that didn't improve the Jets and hurt the Pats. Of course it did!! The Pats are the team to beat but the gap is closing without a doubt at this point. If they turn around and add Demarco Murray and ___ they may open up the gap again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) So you believe that (as an example) Revis going from the Pats to the Jets doesn't bring the Jets closer to the Pats? Sorry, not buying it. It doesn't mean that the Jets are better than the Pats but the Patriots losing their best defensive player and the Jets gaining that guy brings them closer. Do you follow our division or are you new to this division? Darrelle Revis has been with the Jets since 2007-2012. During his tenure with the Jets, here's how the AFC East has ended up. 2001 - Patriots 1st place 2002 - Patriots 2nd place 2003 - Patriots 1st place 2004 - Patriots 1st place 2005 - Patriots 1st place 2006 - Patriots 1st place 2007 - Patriots 1st place 2008 - Patriots 2nd place (Tom Brady knocked out in week 3 with torn ACL) 2009 - Patriots 1st place 2010 - Patriots 1st place 2011 - Patriots 1st place 2012 - Patriots 1st place. 2013 - Patriots 1st place. 2014 - Patriots 1st place. Yes. I guess Darrelle Revis re-signing with the Jets really closed the gap. ONLY if Brady tears his ACL again Like I said. I don't care who anyone signs. All that matters is what happens on the field. Closing the gap. LOL Edited March 11, 2015 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Do you follow our division or are you new to this division? Darrelle Revis has been with the Jets since 2007-2012. During his tenure with the Jets, here's how the AFC East has ended up. 2001 - Patriots 1st place 2002 - Patriots 2nd place 2003 - Patriots 1st place 2004 - Patriots 1st place 2005 - Patriots 1st place 2006 - Patriots 1st place 2007 - Patriots 1st place 2008 - Patriots 2nd place (Tom Brady knocked out in week 3 with torn ACL) 2009 - Patriots 1st place 2010 - Patriots 1st place 2011 - Patriots 1st place 2012 - Patriots 1st place. 2013 - Patriots 1st place. 2014 - Patriots 1st place. Yes. I guess Darrelle Revis re-signing with the Jets really closed the gap. ONLY if Brady tears his ACL again Ha ha, I have missed 2 games in 30 years. I follow as closely as anyone. Maybe the point is over your head but they regressed today. They lost their best defensive player. That doesn't mean that they are not the best team in the division but they are worse than they were yesterday. I'm addition that guy made another team in the division improve. The Jets are still not good but adding Skrine, Marshall and Revis makes them better. What is so difficult to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) where/when are they going to spend all the cap space they must be freeing up? most of the coveted players are gone, and really dont think they're going after Murray. cuz right now it sure has the feel of a team in wind down mode after winning a championship Edited March 11, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Ha ha, I have missed 2 games in 30 years. I follow as closely as anyone. Maybe the point is over your head but they regressed today. They lost their best defensive player. That doesn't mean that they are not the best team in the division but they are worse than they were yesterday. I'm addition that guy made another team in the division improve. The Jets are still not good but adding Skrine, Marshall and Revis makes them better. What is so difficult to understand? No the point is a mile over your head. I don't care what free agents teams signs. Free agents don't always improve teams. What is so difficult to understand? Mario Williams was supposed to be the BIG FA signing that was supposed to "close the gap" against the Pats. How'd that work out? Sure our defense is feared, but what team has come out on top in the division since he's been here? Raiders and the Redskins are NOTORIOUS for signing big name players in free agency. Have they improved? Yes we've closed the gap ON PAPER. That means NOTHING to me and that isn't closing the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) It's obvious every team in the AFC East have gotten much better this off season, that is every team except for NE. They have done nothing and have lost tons of talent so far. Revis, Browner, Wilfork, Blount, Vereen, all gone from the Superbowl team. Sure they still have Brady, albeit a year older. I don't know what they have planned, but to me it looks like the end is near and I couldn't be happier. I hear this every year from my friend who is a Pats fan. The Pats have let all their talent go, they have no one but Brady, what was Belichek thinking, waaah waaah waaah. And somehow, the Pats trade and draft and pick over the NFL scrap heap and manage to contend, year after year, often against teams that appear to have greater talent. I blame it on Belichek's bathtub full of entrails. I'll believe that the end is here for the Pats when we stomp on their stinkin' Cheatriot carcasses twice in one season and fart in their general direction on our way to the division lead, where we stay through game 16. May that day come soon but assume NOTHING. At least not until you find and burn/bury the bathtub after staking it through its enamel heart so it can't be refilled. Edited March 11, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) No the point is a mile over your head. I don't care what free agents teams signs. Free agents don't always improve teams. What is so difficult to understand? Mario Williams was supposed to be the BIG FA signing that was supposed to "close the gap" against the Pats. How'd that work out? Sure our defense is feared, but what team has come out on top in the division since he's been here? Raiders and the Redskins are NOTORIOUS for signing big name players in free agency. Have they improved? Yes we've closed the gap ON PAPER. That means NOTHING to me and that isn't closing the gap. So if Mario Williams went to the Pats tomorrow the gap between the Pats and Bills wouldn't widen? If that wouldn't make that Pats better and the Bills worse (ie the gap widening) then this is miles over my head. A team losing a great player (ie Revis) makes that team worse (not bad but worse) and the team that adds him better (not good but better). If one team improves and one regresses what happens to the gap between them? Edited March 11, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overseas Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 This year they got really lucky, but they are cleaning house on the defensive side of the ball and have done little on the offensive side. They are subtraction by subtraction mode. I think Pats land sees the handwriting on the wall. I expect a mass exodus from New England after next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Sure the Patriots lost Vereen, Wilfork, Browner and Revis. They've also lost Randy Moss, Rodney Harrison, Lawyer Milloy, Richard Seymour, Aqib Talib, Corey Dillon, Kevin Faulk, Wes Welker, Adam Vinatieri, Matt Light, Teddy Bruschi, Ty Law, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Ty Warren, Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, Gerrard Warren, Roosevelt Colvin, Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, Junior Seau, Eugene Wilson, Damien Woody, Willie McGinnest, Ted Washington, Aaron Hernandez, Danny Woodhead, and I can go onnn...and onnnnnn...and onnnnn...and onnnnnnnnnnnnn. and onnnnnnnnnnnn. Guess who always ends up on top after losing all these players? Edited March 11, 2015 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 This is crazy to me. They can still be the team to beat while regressing. They just lost their best defensive player to a division rival but people are acting like that didn't improve the Jets and hurt the Pats. Of course it did!! The Pats are the team to beat but the gap is closing without a doubt at this point. If they turn around and add Demarco Murray and ___ they may open up the gap again. The Devil & Dracula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) So if Mario Williams went to the Pats tomorrow the gap between the Pats and Bills wouldn't widen? If that wouldn't make that Pats better and the Bills worse (ie the gap widening) then this is miles over my head. A team losing a great player (ie Revis) makes that team worse (not bad but worse) and the team that adds him better (not good but better). If one team improves and one regresses what happens to the gap between them? I don't care where Mario went to. In what way has Mario signing with us closed the gap against the Patriots? They're always 1st in the divison and we're always 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 and finish 3rd or 4th. That's your definition of closing the gap? If that's your definition of closing the gap. Then yes. We've close the gap. The division has closed the gap after signing these great FA players even though the Patriots still manage to finish 1st in the division every year. Mario Williams, Bart Scott, Mike Wallace, Braylon Edwards, Percy Harvin, Santonio Holmes, Eric Decker, all paid dividends and closed the gap. Edited March 11, 2015 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I don't care where Mario went to. In what way has Mario signing with us closed the gap against the Patriots? They're always 1st in the divison and we're always 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 and finish 3rd or 4th. That's your definition of closing the gap? If that's your definition of closing the gap. Then yes. We've close the gap. The division has closed the gap after signing these great FA players even though the Patriots still manage to finish 1st in the division every year. Mario Williams, Bart Scott, Mike Wallace, Braylon Edwards, Percy Harvin, Santonio Holmes, Eric Decker, all paid dividends and closed the gap. I am not inferring that the Pats are not the best team in the AFC East. Until they get knocked off they are. The AFC East is improving at the present time and the only team that isn't within the division is the Pats. They still have an opportunity to do so and other teams may take a step back. If Clay goes to the Bills it improves them and hurts Miami for example. The Bills are closer to the Pats now than they have been in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) So if Mario Williams went to the Pats tomorrow the gap between the Pats and Bills wouldn't widen? If that wouldn't make that Pats better and the Bills worse (ie the gap widening) then this is miles over my head. A team losing a great player (ie Revis) makes that team worse (not bad but worse) and the team that adds him better (not good but better). If one team improves and one regresses what happens to the gap between them? I think I see the confusion there. Let's see if we can find some ground to agree: there are a number of factors that contribute to a football team's quality. They include (not necessarily in this order) the quality of the players, the quality of the coaching or scheme, and the quality of the team - how well the players work together to execute the scheme. With me so far? Good. So, a team can have really great execution of a clever scheme, and potentially do more with overall lesser talent. Or a team can rely on great talent and overcome a lesser scheme and lesser quality coaching to some degree. But unless there is strong talent across the board, a team with a clever scheme and great execution will find weaknesses to exploit at positions of lower talent. The Patriots have clever schemes and great coaching that lead to great execution. So they can compensate, to some degree, for losing talent by the overall quality of the team play. When the Pats lost both Gronk and Hernandez in 2013, the quality of their passing game suffered from the serious decrease in TE talent, but they were able to compensate by running more and by altering their passing game. Losing Wilfork will lower their talent level, but not as much as one might think because they wouldn't have let him go if they didn't have a developing player they thought could fill that hole or another plan to get one. Gaining a player like Mario Williams would increase their talent level, but probably not change the overall level of the Pats play too much because it depends so highly on the overall teamwork and scheme. On the other hand, gaining some great talents like Mario Williams didn't necessarily help us too much when we had a poor defensive scheme with lower quality LB that was predictable and easily exploited (Wannstache) or a gambling, high-risk D that would stuff 2 downs and then give up a big play (Pettine). Does that help make the point being made more understandable, even if it isn't one you agree with? Edited March 11, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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