NoSaint Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 You cannot tell competitors not to compete..... You do that and you have EJ Manuel theres a difference between competing and taking unneeded risk. but its incredibly hard to differentiate in the moment sometimes. if that play is 3rd and goal or 45 seconds left you go to the endzone NO MATTER WHAT. if its setting up 1st and goal and you know you are running a route towards the endzone before the play even starts, you hope dez is aware the catch is #1 and the TD is a distant #2, but its much easier said then done for a guy thats trained to believe he can do the spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I disagree, had his hand been over the goal line it would have been a td if he dropped it. My bigger issue is with giving refs discretion with calls, I still don't see how that should not be a catch, the ball stayed in his hands when he hit the ground which caused it to move. He still caught the ball and took a few steps If the ball moves and touches the ground then its not a catch, period. The ball can touch the ground as long as the player possesses the ball which isnt the case if its moving. Crossing the goal line doesnt automatically mean a TD as the player still has to show possession before crossing the goal line. He also did not take 3 steps with possession as the ball was still moving during his steps. Not once did Dez bring the ball in to secure it. Chris Carter was on mike and mike and explained this pretty well while showing replays. He stated if the ball is moving its not a catch and at no point was the ball not moving and once it hit the ground and popped up it wasnt a catch Edited January 12, 2015 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 theres a difference between competing and taking unneeded risk. but its incredibly hard to differentiate in the moment sometimes. if that play is 3rd and goal or 45 seconds left you go to the endzone NO MATTER WHAT. if its setting up 1st and goal and you know you are running a route towards the endzone before the play even starts, you hope dez is aware the catch is #1 and the TD is a distant #2, but its much easier said then done for a guy thats trained to believe he can do the spectacular. Unneeded risk. The Goal is to score by any means necessary. He fell at the .5 yard line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan1972 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The difference is, is that they got the call right yesterday. The ball touched the ground. We see this all the time and regardless if the receiver would have held onto the ball or not is moot. Bryant made a great catch and as he was coming down, unfortunately it hit the ground as he reached out. Those who think he caught it, would have said the ground can't cause a fumble if it bounced out when he reached for the endzone. What the problem was he didn't ensure he made the catch and that is his fault. The Detroit call/non-call/reversal on the other-hand was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Unneeded risk. The Goal is to score by any means necessary. He fell at the .5 yard line. and he ultimately failed miserably at that goal, because any means needed in this case actually meant securing the catch and letting his RB take it in on one of 4 shots. you have to win the small battles first and catching the ball was #1 on that play. it wasnt a last second hail mary where it was all or nothing so the catch didnt matter if he didnt score. Edited January 12, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 and he ultimately failed miserably at that goal, because any means needed in this case actually meant securing the catch and letting his RB take it in on one of 4 shots. you have to win the small battles first and catching the ball was #1 on that play. it wasnt a last second hail mary where it was all or nothing so the catch didnt matter if he didnt score. Well he did secure the ball. Until he hit the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well he did secure the ball. Until he hit the ground... which, um.... isnt a catch, and why we are discussing this. and i think its a bit shakier than most admit even prior to hitting the ground, which doesnt matter since it came out when he hit anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I disagree, had his hand been over the goal line it would have been a td if he dropped it. My bigger issue is with giving refs discretion with calls, I still don't see how that should not be a catch, the ball stayed in his hands when he hit the ground which caused it to move. He still caught the ball and took a few steps The ball did not stay in his hands. It came out and then he caught it again. Incomplete pass. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 which, um.... isnt a catch, and why we are discussing this. and i think its a bit shakier than most admit even prior to hitting the ground, which doesnt matter since it came out when he hit anyway. If he crosses the goal line. Are they reviewing whether he caught it, or are they reviewing whether or not he was down by contact where his knee hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The ball was in his hands the entire time without movement after taking a few steps and didn't get bobbled or come out until he hit the ground, and even then his hands are under it, it pops up in the air and he catches it again. I hate giving anything to the Cowboys, but that should have been a catch at the 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The ball was in his hands the entire time without movement after taking a few steps and didn't get bobbled or come out until he hit the ground, and even then his hands are under it, it pops up in the air and he catches it again. I hate giving anything to the Cowboys, but that should have been a catch at the 1 I think you need to watch the clip again. Dez even stated that he tipped the ball to himself. There is an obvious double-clutch, and once you re-grip, or tip it, it starts the catching process all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) If he crosses the goal line. Are they reviewing whether he caught it, or are they reviewing whether or not he was down by contact where his knee hit? its the same rule in the endzone, if hes falling and the ball comes loose in the act of the fall - incomplete pass Edited January 12, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted William's frozen head Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 You cannot tell competitors not to compete..... You do that and you have EJ Manuel :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadbeef Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Keep in mind the ground cannot cause a fumble but it can cause an incomplete pass. Either establish possession before hitting the ground or hold onto the ball and don't let the ball touch the ground. There are two ways of establishing a valid catch: 1. Catch the ball and make a "football move". This is typically taking two steps after catching the ball. If this happens then the receiver has established possession and it doesn't make any difference if the receiver drops the ball when he hits the ground. The ground cannot cause a fumble. 2. Make a catch in the air and control the ball through the landing. Keep your hands under the ball so it does not touch the ground. If hitting the ground causes you to lose control of the ball its an incomplete pass. If the ball never actually touches the ground and you regain control in bounds then its a complete pass. The description for the call is quite simple. The receiver did not make a few steps before hitting the ground so the only way for him to establish a valid catch is to control the ball through the process of hitting the ground and not bobble it. He bobbled it and the ball touched the ground before he established possession so it was correctly ruled an incomplete pass. If you have caught the ball, made at least two steps, and then reach out for the TD the ground cannot cause a fumble. If you lose the ball after it crosses the goal line its a TD. If you drop the ball before the goal line and before contacting the ground its a fumble (if it goes through the endzone and out of bounds it becomes a turnover). If you are diving for the catch and will not be making two steps then the receiver must hold onto the ball and that is more important than reaching for the goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobilz Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I don't give a crap whether the call was right, wrong or in between. That it happened to Dez Bryant and the Cowboys after last weeks gimme game makes me so damn happy I could care less. And I am all for the integrity of the game, which in this case is fine because it wasn't a catch. !@#$ you Dallas +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 guy gets 3 feet down, dives for the goal line, is down by contact and the ground causes the fumble. bullchit rule how many steps are considered enough to complete the act of making a football move ? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/12/blandino-stands-by-overturning-dez-bryant-catch/ Blandino said the rules in the NFL are clear about players going to the ground as they make a catch, and the rules were properly applied on Sunday. “Is Bryant going to the ground to make the catch?” Blandino said on PFT Live. “It’s clear. He’s stumbling. . . . Then we have to look to see, does the ball touch the ground? Which it clearly did, and it came loose after it touched the ground. . . . The last part which was discussed is did he make a football move? . . . Looking at it, he didn’t.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 how many steps are considered enough to complete the act of making a football move ? when you are stumbling to the ground its not 1, 2, 3, 4 steps, its holding it when you land thats the issue, unless you show control of the ball and your body. when you land and the ball is still held, you are good. when you are running and not going down or you tuck the ball you are good. when you are laying out, you are not good until you show control through the landing even if your feet touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I don't give a crap whether the call was right, wrong or in between. That it happened to Dez Bryant and the Cowboys after last weeks gimme game makes me so damn happy I could care less. And I am all for the integrity of the game, which in this case is fine because it wasn't a catch. !@#$ you Dallas +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 how many steps are considered enough to complete the act of making a football move ?http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/12/blandino-stands-by-overturning-dez-bryant-catch/Blandino said the rules in the NFL are clear about players going to the ground as they make a catch, and the rules were properly applied on Sunday.“Is Bryant going to the ground to make the catch?” Blandino said on PFT Live. “It’s clear. He’s stumbling. . . . Then we have to look to see, does the ball touch the ground? Which it clearly did, and it came loose after it touched the ground. . . . The last part which was discussed is did he make a football move? . . . Looking at it, he didn’t.” To me he did not go to the ground in order to make the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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