Russ Brandon - The [Silent] Common Denominator

[K-9]

Agreed that its moot of course. Not only do i not agree that Ralph would have allowed it, but id go as far to say Russ would have never even proposed it to Mr. Wilson. You and i have been following this team long enough to know that that was never Ralphs style.

 

I think we could all agree that we have FO issues and its not scouting.

 

I'll just say Mr. Wilson was never above taking a risk on certain trades over the years. I'll leave it at that and we can agree to disagree.

 

I'll let my scout friends know you promoted them to the FO. Seriously, they'll be flattered and get a kick out of it. It's a grind for these guys where the rubber meets the road so to speak and there is a certain level of "us against the suits" mentality. Just like the rest of the corporate world.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[TSOL]

 

 

I'll just say Mr. Wilson was never above taking a risk on certain trades over the years. I'll leave it at that and we can agree to disagree.

 

I'll let my scout friends know you promoted them to the FO. Seriously, they'll be flattered and get a kick out of it. It's a grind for these guys where the rubber meets the road so to speak and there is a certain level of "us against the suits" mentality. Just like the rest of the corporate world.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I love our scouts!

Happy Holidays and

Beat the Pats

Edited December 24, 2014 by mastershake

[3rdand12]

Why stop at Russ? Some of the ladies in the secretarial pool have been around too long as well.

But they still provide a valuable service. as does Russ.

[Kelly the Dog]

Put it this way: You are the new owner or President of a big tech company. You don't really know everything about all the technology and history and details that goes into the super hi-tech product you make, but you have strong opinions and working knowledge. You know how to run a big company. You DON'T want the people who do know this to walk up to you and say, "We hired a guy to run all our operations last week" and walk out. You want them to approach you beforehand and say "We want to hire this guy to run all of our operations and here is why, what do you think?"

 

You ask some good questions and they answer them. You now know more about this guy they're hiring. And you're going to feel like this company is in good hands, you're not going to tell them to hire a different guy. That's not your strength. But you want everything to run through you.

[3rdand12]

:thumbsup: This is a failed organization - total failure - tear it down and start again.

 

And your source for this is????

:thumbsup: This is a failed organization - total failure - tear it down and start again.

 

And your source for this is????

Dude. seriously ?????

[TXBILLSFAN]

I think those of you adamantly defending RB are missing an important distinction between a normal corporation and an NFL franchise. For an NFL franchise, FOOTBALL and what happens on the field is the business. You are all going to great pains to draw this black and white line between the "business side" and the "football side". The two are so comingled with each other it's next to impossible to do that.

 

That's like saying a 5 star general isn't involved in a war or that an owner of a restaurant isn't involved in the food that is served.

 

I don't fault RB one bit for being involved in the Marrone hire, the Whaley promotion, the Watkins trade. In fact, I expect him to be involved and to be heavily involved, discussing pros and cons. For crying out loud, he was the CEO of the team, if he wasn't involved he ought to be fired for negligence.

 

 

 

 

[mannc]

 

 

I'm willing to bet that in all his years evaluating personnel, compiling and reading scouting reports, Doug Whaley didn't see more than a handful of ratings higher than Sammy Watkins'. A unanimous blue chip prospect if there ever was one.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I don't doubt that, but it does not excuse Whaley if Watkins turns out to be something other than a perennial pro bowler. Whaley gets paid a lot of money to make the right decision for the Buffalo Bills, and the excuse that a lot of other "experts" also really liked Watkins does not hold much water, IMO. I have no doubt that a lot of other scouts loved Big Mike Williams coming out of U. of Texas, but that doesn't mean Donahoe is not on the hook for being the sucker who fell for him.

 

That Watkins had an extremely high draft grade does not mean Whaley made the right decision. I find it highly relevant that (1) another player at the same position who was taken after the Bills' original slot has thus far dramatically outperformed Watkins; (2) that one of the stated rationales for the deal (giving EJ the weapons to help him develop into a franchise QB) became inoperative four games into the season; and (3) the Bills failed to make the playoffs, despite the trade up, and in fact our offense regressed, if that's possible. The last point is important. It means that Watkins was not in fact the final piece that would put the Bills over the edge and that the pick we gifted the Browns will be in the middle of the first round, rather than at the end of it. It also means that the Bills are farther away from consistently winning than Whaley had supposed and therefore are more in need of a first round pick this year than he supposed. Watkins might well turn out to be a superstar who justifies the deal, but the early indications are not positive and I have to say, Whaley's first draft (assuming 2013 was not his) is not looking that great.

 

 

[K-9]

I don't doubt that, but it does not excuse Whaley if Watkins turns out to be something other than a perennial pro bowler. Whaley gets paid a lot of money to make the right decision for the Buffalo Bills, and the excuse that a lot of other "experts" also really liked Watkins does not hold much water, IMO. I have no doubt that a lot of other scouts loved Big Mike Williams coming out of U. of Texas, but that doesn't mean Donahoe is not on the hook for being the sucker who fell for him.

 

That Watkins had an extremely high draft grade does not mean Whaley made the right decision. I find it highly relevant that (1) another player at the same position who was taken after the Bills' original slot has thus far dramatically outperformed Watkins; (2) that one of the stated rationales for the deal (giving EJ the weapons to help him develop into a franchise QB) became inoperative four games into the season; and (3) the Bills failed to make the playoffs, despite the trade up, and in fact our offense regressed, if that's possible. The last point is important. It means that Watkins was not in fact the final piece that would put the Bills over the edge and that the pick we gifted the Browns will be in the middle of the first round, rather than at the end of it. It also means that the Bills are farther away from consistently winning than Whaley had supposed and therefore are more in need of a first round pick this year than he supposed. Watkins might well turn out to be a superstar who justifies the deal, but the early indications are not positive and I have to say, Whaley's first draft (assuming 2013 was not his) is not looking that great.

 

I don't think I've ever even come close to saying that Whaley and Co. aren't on the hook for their personnel moves. Regarding that trade, it was Whaley's baby the entire time and not, like others have suggested, a plan hatched by Russ Brandon. Was there consensus among the principals in the war room? Of course. Very little gets done without consensus, ideally.

 

As for your points about relevancy, I think it's a completely different animal in hindsight. There are still many other chapters to be written. I can be patient when it comes to a rare talent like Watkins. But I understand the sentiment to the contrary.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RayFinkle]

I can't go down the Sullivan/Carrucci path of looking at plays or individual players or coaches anymore. After 15 years, it's time to recognize that there is a greater pattern. Questions:

 

On what planet do you fail for as long as he has and keep your job?

Why is he the only Pres in the AFC East without an Ivy League graduate degree? How many other team Presidents in the NFL are running teams with their bachelors degrees?

How did a bachelors degree from St. John Fischer, some experience with the Marlins, and 9 years with the bills make him qualified to run an NFL franchise?

How many hours and dollars did he spend on the Toronto deals which could have been spent trying to make the team better?

Why have we hired more head coaches than any team (except Raiders) since 2000?

Why have we not been able to hire a head coach with a winning record?

Why is the team winning less than 40% of its games during his tenure?

How do prospects feel about coming to play for a guy with this track record, who has the same education level as they do?

 

I'm sure Ive missed some details, but the point is, the guy is grossly under qualified with a long track record of failure. I think he had RW brainwashed, and I hope Pegula asks the hard questions about Mr. Brandon. It's time to have this team run professionally.

 

Ivy League education to be the President of a NFL franchise? When did that become a requirement? A masters degree to boot?

 

Instead of posing the questions as if their some type of problem, you should feel empowered to use google to answer them yourself. You'll sound smarter next time...

 

It's going to be a looooooong offseason.

 

[mannc]

 

 

I don't think I've ever even come close to saying that Whaley and Co. aren't on the hook for their personnel moves.

 

 

 

GO BILLS!!!

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

 

Even though I'm not a fan of Coach Mauron, I'm slowly coming to believe that Whaley might be the bigger problem, despite his supposed reputation. I admit it's hard for a fan to evaluate a GM's performance, though. So much of what happens is behind closed doors and never sees the light of day, especially WRT 2013, when Buddy was still nominally in charge. It's impossible to know which decisions are truly the GM's and hard to know how much coaching is really to blame.

Edited December 24, 2014 by mannc

[TheFunPolice]

Well the owner is not Ralph and the Pegulas are very hands on and have said they will continue that with the Bills.

 

Therefore stuff will change. It's just a question of how much.

 

These owners won't be sitting home in Florida while Russ attends owner's meetings

Edited December 26, 2014 by TheFunPolice

[BADOLBILZ]

No doubt. The proof and credibility is always found in the W-L records. Agree one hundred percent. And I doubt RB gets a pass on any of that.

 

I just happen to find irony funny at times. Can you imagine if the internet were around when Accorsi started out?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

With the exception of your last sentence, all the rest is utter bull.

 

LMAO with the "apologist" remark. It's classic. And couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

I'm not saying you are an apologist. I am saying I think you take your "inside" knowledge out of context.

 

During their SB runs I had connections to a few of the players. I heard some crazy things and it really helped me gain SOME perspective on the players and those they reported directly to......but little else.

 

I think your takes might exceed the boundaries of what your contacts know and falls more into their opinion becoming yours and you considering that as rather indisuptable evidence that you know the truth.

 

I've known people in the Bills offices and they have opinions and stories they've heard...and overheard....and I've always taken them with a grain. I trust the inside takes I get from my media contact MORE.

 

There is actually a lot the media knows that never goes to print and it's not that they don't want to compromise their contacts within the organization......it's just that it doesn't really matter. Even argument stories are really just noise.

 

Results give you the answers you seek.

 

My point in this is you get very standoff-ish at the notion that you don't know better than anyone else.

 

A prime example is that you think you know Ralph Wilson's thought process when the guy was well known for his mercurial nature.

 

An opinion that is backed by results.

[TheFunPolice]

Russ Brandon himself could post here and what would he say to convince some that everything is truly peachy at OBD?

 

Thus if Russ himself is giving info to certain posters you need to take that info with a grain of salt.

 

If I "theoretically" knew someone who was best friends with Hackett I could say that St. Doug is calling the shots on offense and Father Hackett wants to take more shots down field.

 

Would it matter? Would you even believe it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2014 by TheFunPolice

[K-9]

I'm not saying you are an apologist. I am saying I think you take your "inside" knowledge out of context.

 

During their SB runs I had connections to a few of the players. I heard some crazy things and it really helped me gain SOME perspective on the players and those they reported directly to......but little else.

 

I think your takes might exceed the boundaries of what your contacts know and falls more into their opinion becoming yours and you considering that as rather indisuptable evidence that you know the truth.

 

I've known people in the Bills offices and they have opinions and stories they've heard...and overheard....and I've always taken them with a grain. I trust the inside takes I get from my media contact MORE.

 

There is actually a lot the media knows that never goes to print and it's not that they don't want to compromise their contacts within the organization......it's just that it doesn't really matter. Even argument stories are really just noise.

 

Results give you the answers you seek.

 

My point in this is you get very standoff-ish at the notion that you don't know better than anyone else.

 

A prime example is that you think you know Ralph Wilson's thought process when the guy was well known for his mercurial nature.

 

An opinion that is backed by results.

 

Stick to your football analysis and leave the psychological profiling to professionals.

 

Here's my point: I don't need to be "right" about anything around here. Couldn't care less. What I have a low tolerance for and what may account for my coming across as standoffish in response, is the utter disregard some people have for the work of many people I've grown close to over the years. It's really no more complicated than that.

 

I first met Mr. Wilson when I was an eight year old gopher at the Rockpile some 47 years ago. In the 70s, he'd pop in when we were working on various cut-ups for the scouts and staff. Always generous, always gracious, always funny as hell. Mercurial, certainly at times. But he always made it a point to ask about our families; from moms and dads to wives and kids. Always. And I've always freely admitted my bias towards him around here as a result of that experience. I don't claim to know his thought process though, far from it. When I say he wasn't averse to a big trade, that's a guess based on a hunch, nothing more.

 

Lastly, regarding adopting others' opinions as my own, I certainly plead guilty to that when it comes to the opinions of the scouts and others involved in personnel over the years. And why wouldn't I? I've known some of them for decades; a few of which have gone on to great things with us and other teams in the league over the years. Indeed, I seek their opinions and trust them. Perhaps to a fault at times. I'll try not to get so defensive when I see others raking them over the coals for no reason. I'm working on it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by K-9

[Justafan9]

 

 

Ivy League education to be the President of a NFL franchise? When did that become a requirement? A masters degree to boot?

 

Instead of posing the questions as if their some type of problem, you should feel empowered to use google to answer them yourself. You'll sound smarter next time...

 

It's going to be a looooooong offseason.

 

Oh please enlighten me. Name the team president in the AFC east who doesn't have an Ivy League grad degree. Go ahead and use google. You will sound smarter.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Stick to your football analysis and leave the psychological profiling to professionals.

 

Here's my point: I don't need to be "right" about anything around here. Couldn't care less. What I have a low tolerance for and what may account for my coming across as standoffish in response, is the utter disregard some people have for the work of many people I've grown close to over the years. It's really no more complicated than that.

 

I first met Mr. Wilson when I was an eight year old gopher at the Rockpile some 47 years ago. In the 70s, he'd pop in when we were working on various cut-ups for the scouts and staff. Always generous, always gracious, always funny as hell. Mercurial, certainly at times. But he always made it a point to ask about our families; from moms and dads to wives and kids. Always. And I've always freely admitted my bias towards him around here as a result of that experience. I don't claim to know his thought process though, far from it. When I say he wasn't averse to a big trade, that's a guess based on a hunch, nothing more.

 

Lastly, regarding adopting others' opinions as my own, I certainly plead guilty to that when it comes to the opinions of the scouts and others involved in personnel over the years. And why wouldn't I? I've known some of them for decades; a few of which have gone on to great things with us and other teams in the league over the years. Indeed, I seek their opinions and trust them. Perhaps to a fault at times. I'll try not to get so defensive when I see others raking them over the coals for no reason. I'm working on it.

 

I understand your personal attachments.

 

Sports differ from other businesses in that they do not have to promise a good product to stay in business.

 

Teams are given a pass by customers with the inherent understanding that their loyalty is given in exchange for a committment to winning for that fanbase.

 

Like it or not.......THIS IS THE PROMISE...upon which the entire foundation of pro sports was built.

 

Until that dynamic changes.....people in sports management jobs are going to be held accountable by fans. Demanding better is the only real recourse fans have.

 

Ralph Wilson may have been a great guy in many aspects of his life....and now death....but he was not committed to winning.

 

He wanted to win on his terms. There is a difference. It involves sacrifices he wasn't willing to make.

 

As a result the people that worked for him have had to endure much personal criticism. That is Ralph's fault....not that of the fanbase. But it's probably hard to see it that way when Ralph is providing you with opportunity and issuing your checks and being nice to you.

 

It's kind of a robbing Peter to pay Paul situation. The robbing part is still bad.

[Justafan9]

Here I did it for you.

 

Dolphins - no president, chairman/managing general partner = Steven Ross. J.D., LLM (Google it) from NYU (ivy).

Pats - president - Jonathan Kraft- MBA Harvard.

Jets - President - Neil Glat - JD Harvard.

 

Raves - president - Dick Cass - Yale Law

Bengals - President - Michael Brown - Harvard Law

Browns - President - Alec Scheiner - Georgetown Law

Steelers - president - Art Rooney II - Duquesne Law

 

Texans - president -Jamey rooted - MBA Indiana U

Colts - no president. Irsay owns, and is CEO.

Jags - mark lamping. No grad degree. You be the judge as to whether that's a good thing for the jags.

Titans - president - Thomas smith - unknown to me

 

Broncos -president - joe Ellis - Northwestern school of management.

KC - pres - mark Donovan - Brown (Ivy).

Chargers - President - Dean Spanos. No grad or Ivy league degree ( his dad owns the team).

Oak - no pres.

 

That's the AFC. You be the judge.

[SJDK]

I can't go down the Sullivan/Carrucci path of looking at plays or individual players or coaches anymore. After 15 years, it's time to recognize that there is a greater pattern. Questions:

 

On what planet do you fail for as long as he has and keep your job?

Why is he the only Pres in the AFC East without an Ivy League graduate degree? How many other team Presidents in the NFL are running teams with their bachelors degrees?

How did a bachelors degree from St. John Fischer, some experience with the Marlins, and 9 years with the bills make him qualified to run an NFL franchise?

How many hours and dollars did he spend on the Toronto deals which could have been spent trying to make the team better?

Why have we hired more head coaches than any team (except Raiders) since 2000?

Why have we not been able to hire a head coach with a winning record?

Why is the team winning less than 40% of its games during his tenure?

How do prospects feel about coming to play for a guy with this track record, who has the same education level as they do?

 

I'm sure Ive missed some details, but the point is, the guy is grossly under qualified with a long track record of failure. I think he had RW brainwashed, and I hope Pegula asks the hard questions about Mr. Brandon. It's time to have this team run professionally.

I'd bet that fewer owners than you think have graduate degrees. A degree means jack squat when put up against all his years of experience. I don't think Brandon has done an exceptional job, but I also don't think he is what is holding us back. We all know Ralph was cheap and he was too involved in too many of the decisions that hurt us. I think he was a great man but his later days offered very little in the way of bucking his reputation as a tight wad and his interfering with progress. I know alot of people with graduate degrees who are not doing so well considering their education. It's a dumb argument to make basically because experience is education. You can't learn what those guys need to know in a classroom setting. You have to know the ins and ou's of specific organizations and cater your approach accordingly. He spent years with Ralph as a mentor and I'm sure learned a lot more valuable information about running a team/business than someone could with a graduate degree from Harvard. That said I don't think he's great or necessary but I don't think you put Ryan Fitzpatrick through another couple years of school and give him the job.

Edited December 28, 2014 by SJDK

[Justafan9]

Clearly, he's done a magnificent job.

Enjoy the game tomorrow.

[SJDK]

I will do just that. I will do so knowing that Russ isn't an OC, an offensive guard, an offensive line coach or a QB. I think Whaley and Marrone will address all of those needs shortly as it is Whaley and Marrone's job to do that.