9 Who Should Be On The Way Out .....

[Hatszel]

way off thread...but i aint buying the Orton part of that equation. EJ i am not so sure yet, but Orton i think after 10 years you know what he is.And that is not good enough to get you to a Superbowl, or even the playoffs, in a normal year.

 

Orton's slide on 3rd and 1 says it all he is just playing for his paycheck we need to move on from Orton he has no heart and what player is going to play for a QB with no heart!

[Agent 91]

 

 

I said he and his GM. If you don't believe that a HC choses his roster along with the GM, then you really can't continue to participate in this thread.

 

Lol exactly. The gm does not pick the scheme that a team runs. Coaches tell GMs what they need. And then thr GM goes and gets it. Often times the GM will make moves... Mike Williams... but its usually after a conference with the coach. In my opinion the HC makes the personnel decisions. Marrone fleeced us. Said he could use the tools... weapons we already had. Got the job and has us running the most boring Offense since Jaron. Chan's offense with Pettine/Schwartz defense would be at WORST a fringe playoff team. I think Chan could have used EJ I know our line was better... as someone earlier said... same line looks eons worse. Another thread someone said that we now have a bona fide wr corp top to bottom. Spiller Dixon and Brown lest we not forget FREDEx. We need someone who has that type of philosophy. And marrone will hang as chan did. Chan couldn't fire his buddy (Wannstedt). And Marrone wouldn't get rid of crossman who we have a million specialized special teamers to help. And he wont relieve Hackett of his duties. I dont care if he is retained... just demote him and get an innovator in here. Otherwise. Pettine/Schwartz and the whole defense was and is a waste.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Agent 91

[bobobonators]

 

 

I am with you 26.

 

What freakin adversity has Marone gone through this year???

 

Team missed a day of practice, moved a game to Detroit against the worst team in the league. (some suggest was a bonding experience)

 

That is it......the sum total of his adversity

 

 

 

OTOH

 

Only one significant injury to an impact starter. One...One... ........ are you kidding me??? What good fortune is that? (maybe you could put Leo in there)

 

Huge, jacked up beyond normal, emotional crowds for two divisional home games. He loses one.

 

No Toronto game this year.

 

One West Coast Game

 

A defense that keeps his team in every single stinking game ( that he does not coach one iota)

 

 

This guy had everything break RIGHT for him this year...the exact opposite of adversity

 

I'm not a Marrone nutjob supporter by any stretch, but having your "franchise" QB sport an 18QBR after 4 weeks and look as bad as he did in order to make a switch to Orton I'd say is adversity for any franchise.

 

For example: look how quickly things have fallen apart for the Redskins.

[BillsVet]

I think Whaleys done a fine job. He's done a solid job building the roster, but you can't overlook his decision making on the QB situation which is BY FAR the most important position in the sport.

 

To think we almost went into the season with Manuel, Palmer, and Tuel as our three QB's would've been an absolute disaster especially after trading next years first rounder for a WR.

 

If he does stick around, this should be the number one priority. Finding a QB. If Cutler is indeed available, while it would be a risky move, should be a serious consideration as trading for him would be a big upgrade and potentially put this team in the conversation for Superbowl contender next year.

 

I can't give Whaley much credit for his drafts when they have what looks like a 1st round bust from their 2013 first rounder and the 2nd rounder in 2014 can't even dress for a bad OL. Or giving up so much for a WR when the draft class was so strong at that position. Strategically, he's made huge blunders, most notably thinking they could go with a rookie QB in 2014 without a competent veteran backup. And for those who claim Kolb was going to be that guy in 2013, well, his injury history should have made them look for other options. Unless he was signed to be the backup, which I believe was the plan.

 

They trade for guys like Mike Williams and then don't play him. Or,

 

The HC is bombing right now, the OC clearly is in over his head. And they're 7-6 after years of rebuilding, which didn't start when Whaley officially became GM. It began with the 2010 season. So after all these 5 years they're only able to get to 7/8 wins? That's inexcusable in a league where teams are making huge strides in 1 year.

[section122]

Maybe they weren't "as bad", but they were still bad teams. And they were turned around in one year. Most teams consider a 8-8 season followed by a losing season to be bad. Even as a Bills fan used to bad stuff, I would say that's a bad team.

I'll offer another example. Andy Reid turned around the Cheaps in one season as well. Anyone remember what their last season was like before Andy arrived? Romeo Crennel. A LB shooting himself in the head at the practice field.

 

To the bolded: so what do you consider teams that went 9-7 and then had 10 straight losing seasons?? Being .500 2 years ago and 10 years ago makes a world of difference. Take a look at Jeff Fisher and the Rams. Even with the benefit of the RG3 trade and multiple extra first round picks they still have not been able to get over .500 and he has had 3 years to turn it around.

 

Chiefs are actually a decent example. So we have 1 team out of 32 in the last how many years. Can you see how this is the exception and not the norm?

 

All I'm saying here is we need to give Marrone a fair shake. 2 years with how sorry this franchise was for 14 years before he got here isn't that imo.

 

What really gets me is if you asked any Bills fan to rank, grade Kyle Orton vs the rest of the NFL QB's he would probably come in around 20th or so. Justifiably, rightfully so. Orton is far, far from an elite QB. So why on gods green earth does this coaching staff insist he keep carrying the entire offense game, after game.

 

No QB on earth is going to succeed with the morons currently running the offensive side of things.

 

Perhaps the offensive line being ranked so low has something to do with that? Perhaps the team being down to the third and fourth string rb have something to do with.

 

I also don't understand how you talk about Orton sucking and them failing because of it and then saying that no qb on earth could succeed. Doesn't it make sense that a better qb would do better?

 

20/20 hindsight, but I'd rather have kept Fitzpatrick and waited for Manziel rather than pinning hopes that EJ will be more than a career backup.

 

Now that we have Orton, our best option is to stick with him until we have a shot at a potential franchise QB, and when we do, we need to act on it.

 

Get a QB. Everything else falls into place.

 

This place would have exploded if no qb was drafted when ej was. If the Bills tried to go into another season and sell Fitz as the starter everyone would have been up in arms. I think your last line speaks exactly to what the team was trying to do in drafting Manuel the results just aren't in yet. Just like they aren't in with Manziel yet....

[dave mcbride]

Only those who agree with you that he's doing a GREAT job are objective. Okay! Gotcha.

 

No credit for Marrone managing to bring in excellent DCs and defensive staffs? As I've said elsewhere, building a good coaching staff is a core part of the job. In my book, he gets tons of credit for the defense because he brought in Pettine and Schwartz -- just like Parcells should get credit for bringing in Belichik (3 times) and letting him operate freely. *That* is part of coaching too.

 

I'm not much of a fan of Hackett, however.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

No credit for Marrone managing to bring in excellent DCs and defensive staffs? As I've said elsewhere, building a good coaching staff is a core part of the job. In my book, he gets tons of credit for the defense because he brought in Pettine and Schwartz -- just like Parcells should get credit for bringing in Belichik (3 times) and letting him operate freely. *That* is part of coaching too.

 

I'm not much of a fan of Hackett, however.

 

It's the assemblage of talent as opposed to the scheme that primarily makes the defense so good IMO. That credit goes to Whaley and the scouts. He picked a couple of good DCs with very good league wide reputations. Good for him.

 

As almost everyone knows, Marrone's supposed expertise is the OL and offensive schemes where the team has enjoyed very little success. IMO, this is his primary failing to date although there are additional well chronicled areas where he is also deficient such as in-game decision making and personnel utilization. As I have previously posted, I think the Bills need a better HC based on what I have seen from him.

[dave mcbride]

It's the assemblage of talent as opposed to the scheme that primarily makes the defense so good IMO. That credit goes to Whaley and the scouts. He picked a couple of good DCs with very good league wide reputations. Good for him.

 

As almost everyone knows, Marrone's supposed expertise is the OL and offensive schemes where the team has enjoyed very little success. IMO, this is his primary failing to date although there are additional well chronicled areas where he is also deficient such as in-game decision making and personnel utilization. As I have previously posted, I think the Bills need a better HC based on what I have seen from him.

Disagree because defense is 50 percent of the game and because I strongly believe that head coaches do not get enough credit for building staffs. It's why Parcells was so great - Belichick, Coughlin, Payton, and more.

[26CornerBlitz]

Disagree because defense is 50 percent of the game and because I strongly believe that head coaches do not get enough credit for building staffs. It's why Parcells was so great - Belichick, Coughlin, Payton, and more.

 

Talk about the staff as much as you like, but Marrone's record to date is 13-16. "Don't confuse effort with results" - Bills Head Coach Doug Marrone

[Fan in Chicago]

It's the assemblage of talent as opposed to the scheme that primarily makes the defense so good IMO. That credit goes to Whaley and the scouts. He picked a couple of good DCs with very good league wide reputations. Good for him.

 

As almost everyone knows, Marrone's supposed expertise is the OL and offensive schemes where the team has enjoyed very little success. IMO, this is his primary failing to date although there are additional well chronicled areas where he is also deficient such as in-game decision making and personnel utilization. As I have previously posted, I think the Bills need a better HC based on what I have seen from him.

 

Et tu, 26Corner ? You too are jumping on the anti-Marrone wagon ?

 

I agree with much of what dave writes above. If you blame him for the O personnel, then by the same yardstick have to give him credit for the DC and D personnel. I have said it several times and will continue to say it until proven otherwise. Top 15 QB play and an experienced OC would put this team deep into the playoffs. With Marrone as HC

[26CornerBlitz]

Et tu, 26Corner ? You too are jumping on the anti-Marrone wagon ?

 

I agree with much of what dave writes above. If you blame him for the O personnel, then by the same yardstick have to give him credit for the DC and D personnel. I have said it several times and will continue to say it until proven otherwise. Top 15 QB play and an experienced OC would put this team deep into the playoffs. With Marrone as HC

 

I'm already there. Marrone doesn't have any involvement in the defense. Why would I give him any credit for its success? OTOH, he's heavily involved with the offense and particularly the OL that's holding the team back. He's even on the headset talking with Hackett during games with playsheet in-hand. Marrone is integrally involved on that side of the ball because that's what he knows. It's a failure and the chief reason why his team will likely be at home while postseason football games are being contested.

Edited December 10, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Agent 91]

 

 

I said he and his GM. If you don't believe that a HC choses his roster along with the GM, then you really can't continue to participate in this thread.

 

Lol exactly. The gm does not pick the scheme that a team runs. Coaches tell GMs what they need. And then thr GM goes and gets it. Often times the GM will make moves... Mike Williams... but its usually after a conference with the coach. In my opinion the HC makes the personnel decisions. Marrone fleeced us. Said he could use the tools... weapons we already had. Got the job and has us running the most boring Offense since Jaron. Chan's offense with Pettine/Schwartz defense would be at WORST a fringe playoff team. I think Chan could have used EJ I know our line was better... as someone earlier said... same line looks eons worse. Another thread someone said that we now have a bona fide wr corp top to bottom. Spiller Dixon and Brown lest we not forget FREDEx. We need someone who has that type of philosophy. And marrone will hang as chan did. Chan couldn't fire his buddy (Wannstedt). And Marrone wouldn't get rid of crossman who we have a million specialized special teasers to help. And he wont relieve Hackett of his duties. I dont care if he is retains... just demote him and get an innovator in here. Otherwise. Pettine/Schwartz and the whole defense was and is a waste.

[Fan in Chicago]

I'm already there. Marrone doesn't have any involvement in the defense. Why would I give him any credit for its success? OTOH, he's heavily involved with the offense and particularly the OL that's holding the team back. He's even on the headset talking with Hackett during games with playsheet in-hand. Marrone is integrally involved on that side of the ball because that's what he knows. It's a failure and the chief reason why his team will likely be at home while postseason football games are being contested.

 

I disagree with you and am going to leave it at that. You cannot underestimate how much a mediocre QB can hamper the Offense from a scheme and execution perspective.

[Agent 91]

 

 

Name a QB we could draft in the first round this year picking in the late teens.

 

/crusade

 

Thats all he ever does.of course he starts the post with ej is a bust. That's all he has. Its old and tired

[Deranged Rhino]

Thats all he ever does.of course he starts the post with ej is a bust. That's all he has. Its old and tired

 

Well he also runs from questions like that because he can't answer them. He's the worst.

[Agent 91]

 

Disagree because defense is 50 percent of the game and because I strongly believe that head coaches do not get enough credit for building staffs. It's why Parcells was so great - Belichick, Coughlin, Payton, and more.

 

Defense is a 3rd of the game and we are only outstanding with 1 phase poor with another and passable with the 3rd phase. His staff is poor. Its bush league. He was so good he could just bring his boys from 'cuse to help out. Rookie coaches go get people that can help. You dont learn the job while trying to teach. That is also my philosophy on EJ. He cant qb this team while the vast majority of the offense is either 2 yr or less or new position. Its crazy Eric wood and cordy Glenn are the exceptions. You have to have a vet somewhere... coaching and also playing. Or you get... this

Edited December 10, 2014 by Agent 91

[Buffalo Barbarian]

check out #3 ......and it's not Marrone

 

http://www.nfl.com/n...-on-the-way-out

 

sounds about right

[Webster Guy]

 

This guy had everything break RIGHT for him this year...the exact opposite of adversity

good points. also he had a GM that sweetened the pot even more this year by sliding up in the draft to take one of the most dominant college receivers in a long time.

 

the only adversity I see is he has an OC that isn't any better than mediocre even on his best day, and in some cases looks completely over his head in the NFL.

[thewildrabbit]

Perhaps the offensive line being ranked so low has something to do with that? Perhaps the team being down to the third and fourth string rb have something to do with.

 

I also don't understand how you talk about Orton sucking and them failing because of it and then saying that no qb on earth could succeed. Doesn't it make sense that a better qb would do better?

When a new HC (Marrone) comes into a team he lets the GM know his offensive scheme, game plans. From there he lets that GM know what specific players he is looking for and for what type of player fits that mold. Marrone, Whaley along with Hackett, and even Russ Brandon were all probably involved in the discussion of what specific offense they wanted to run. Remember the hype of the fast paced, quick strike innovative offense that was promised?

 

One thing comes to my mind as a Bills fan I knew the O line was sub par even with Levitre because of below average players at RT & RG in Erik Pears, Kraig Urbik. Gailey got away with using those two because of the scheme he ran, and I can only think that with Hackett / Marrone trying to implement the hurry up offense that they were following in what Gailey had done.

 

Now, considering Doug Whaley was a rookie GM in 2013 one can easily presume that Marrone was helping him find the offensive players that Marrone wanted to bring into the team via draft, and free agency. One of the first things Marrone did in 2013 was jettison all the lame receivers on the roster. Donald Jones, Brad Smith, Ruvell Martin, these players first come to mind, and there were probably others.

 

Then in that first draft in 2013 the Bills drafted #1 EJ Manuel , #2 Robert Woods, #3 Marquise Goodwin to bolster his offense. Meanwhile, basically the same players that were starting on the O line in 2012 were going to be starting in 2013, save LG Andy Levitre who graded as the teams best pass blocker, and a not so good run blocker.

 

Clearly the FO was worried about starting center Eric Wood, and the fact that he ended up on IR in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012. Then when he went down those years the team was in turmoil trying to find an adequate replacement center. So, Whaley did the smart thing by finding a backup center for wood in free agency. The problem with that is Whaley signed the very worst O line player on a not very good line in the Steeler's. the only good thing about that signing was that Doug Legusky was versatile enough to play both OG & C so he could fill in either positions if needed.

 

Then the team needed a replacement at LG because they chose not to sign Andy Levitre to a big contract, and he left in free agency for Tennessee. Meanwhile the only competent backup OG on the roster was then Chad Rinehart who chose to follow his O line coach to San Diego.

 

So now the Bills don't have a decent starting LG nor do they have a competent backup on the roster. Here is where things get interesting because Marrone's supposed area of expertise is the O line in him being a 3 year O line Letterman at Syracuse, an ex NFL O line player, an ex O line coach. Then the man was out on the field during preseason practices "hands on" with the O line players. The replacement for Levitre was Colin Brown, and his back up was Sam Young.

 

Then once the 2013 season started the Bills saw that Brown wasn't* getting the job done in any aspect, and actually waited six games before cutting him off the team right along with his backup. That backup went in for one series when Urbik was injured, and promptly allowed a sack, and hurries. So now Doug Legursky became the starter at LG for the rest of the season, and luckily Eric Wood stayed healthy the entire year. The simple fact was that Legursky was a less then adequate replacement at LG, and the line suffered for it.

 

Fast forward to 2014, and the Bills released Legursky and in free agency the Bills signed the very worst graded player from a poor St Louis line in OG Chris Williams to take over at LG. This player had a known history of injury problems, and he lasted a whole three games this year before he hit the IR. So, the plan became try rookie 5th round pick Cyrus Richardson at LG, and bench Urbik. Meanwhile the starting RT from last season became the new starting RG at 6'7''. Now Richardson started four games before the team realized he wasn't going to get the job done in any aspect, and was benched for Urbik.

 

The O line has been a clusterfluck for two years now under Marrone, and has been far worse then it ever was under, Gailey, Jauron. How bad you ask? In October PFF graded them as the 32nd / worst offensive line in the NFL . Like I said Marrone has had two years now to address the O line, ask for upgrades. The simple truth is the man wouldn't know a top O line player from a bad one even if he came up and bite him in the arse. Marrone stated he always starts his best players, but the simple truth is he doesn't know which are his best players, and that can be readily seen in the Richardson - Urbik fiasco.

 

 

Remember Nathaniel Hackett stating that he was going to run Spiller until he threw up, and what happened was he ran him until we Bills fans threw up. The 2013 Bills were the #2 rushing team in the NFL, and the #1 team in rushing attempts. Yet they were on of the worst teams in three downs and out, and hence pick up the nickname the "Hurry up, and punt offense". They were bad (30th) on first down efficiency because the O line couldn't open holes for the RB's. A strong run team is supposed to be able to control the line of scrimmage, and clock. Yet the Bills could do neither, and still can't this year.

 

The Bills would be a much better team had they actually upgraded the O line last year, and done a better job upgrading it this year. Doesn't it strike you that the Bills spent 3 draft picks on the O line a #2 Cyril Kouandjio, a #5 Cyrus Richardson, and a #7 in Seantrel Henderson, and the only player starting is the 7th rounder. I think it would be safe to say that nobody in this Org knows O line talent.

 

 

BTW, Fred Jackson only missed 3 games, and is the starter.

 

Plus, it doesn't make sense a better QB is going to do better. Peyton Manning is about as elite as they come, and he threw 54 times for 389 yards in a loss against St Louis. The run game went out the window in that game as Denver only rushed it 10 times.Since that game the Broncos coaching staff smartened up, and started running the ball more. All that sound familiar, as the Bills had Orton throw it 57 times against Denver while rushing only 16 times. The Bills have been throwing 40+ times a game since week three, and rushing about 1/2 that. If not for the 5th ranked defense this years team probably wins 4-5 games.

Edited December 11, 2014 by FeartheLosing

[Billsfan369]

Yeah, ok...everyone is down on the Bills QB's, and justifiably so, I suppose. But the real question is, who do you replace them with? Are Bills fans going to tolerate another rookie? What free agent would be available that won't have as many questions and concerns as Orton & Tuel.

 

Sure, I would be a little excited if they went after Cutler, because I think he is better than either of the guys we have..but he will likely bring his own issues to the table, least of which would be a fan base that is looking for any reason they can to fry QB's. Just don't think Cutler and Buffalo would be a good mix...I am not sold on Kaepernick or RGIII at this point, either. Who does that leave? Matt Schaub? Brian Hoyer? Are any of these guys an upgrade over what we have?

 

NO

 

Fix the freekin O-Line