IDBillzFan Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 [This is an automated response] This subject matter is being currently being discussed or has already been discussed in a previous thread. Please consider using the "search" function before repeatedly changing the subject. Thank you. So you agree with me. That's a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So you agree with me. That's a first. Let's not get carried away. Here's an exercise you may want to undertake to see how much of a Fox News lemming you've become: 1. Name 3 traditionally liberal stances you support that conservatives traditionally oppose. 2. Name 3 actions or polices enacted by Obama that you think are reasonable, successful and/or generally good. In both cases, start with 1 if you're having trouble. Now I'M off-topic. Friggin ADD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Let's not get carried away. Here's an exercise you may want to undertake to see how much of a Fox News lemming you've become: 1. Name 3 traditionally liberal stances you support that conservatives traditionally oppose. 2. Name 3 actions or polices enacted by Obama that you think are reasonable, successful and/or generally good. In both cases, start with 1 if you're having trouble. Now I'M off-topic. Friggin ADD... So in other words, yes, you agree with the president's drone strikes program because hes a progressive. That's all you had to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So in other words, yes, you agree with the president's drone strikes program because hes a progressive. That's all you had to say. I'll chalk this up to limited capacity for reading comprehension and an inability to see things outside of the extremes of black and white. But that's ok, the world needs ditch diggers too. Struggling with the exercise? Shocking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I don't recall saying that drone bombing isn't a morally-questionable act. Please try to stay on topic. It might help if you turned down the Limbaugh and stopped looking at politics as a team sport, but I expect that's asking too much. Some open mind. I think Limbaugh reads this forum. I don't take my views from listening to him. I don't have a problem with "enhanced interrogation" techniques. I lost too many friends on 911 to give two ***** about slapping some low life about. The current President's style is more in line with the Jihadists. They are playing for keeps he is playing for sound bites and donations. If he were President in 1941 we'd be speaking German now except for the folks on the left coast. They'd be speaking Japanese. "Get off my lawn?" Project much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm not American, so I don't lie on either side of your partisan politics. When the news of this report came out, I had two reactions: it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know and who cares? I love the moral high grounders who repeatedly chastise the CIA for "stooping to the level of the enemy". But I liken it to the Bills playing the Patriots, except the Bills are bound by rules and the Patriots play without that restriction (which isn't far fetched). If the Patriots are allowed to play dirty, deliver cheap shot after cheap shot and commit PI at will, they will win. Sure, the Bills suffered 7 career ending injuries, but hey, at least the Bills played fair. I don't get that. If you want extremism to win, continue to play by the rules and display a naive attitude that extremists laugh about. But I'd prefer western leaders get in the gutter to win this war. It's not about being better than that. It's about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I'm outraged! Again, stop deflecting. I'm sure drone strikes are currently being discussed in a wide variety of diverse topics here, including (but not limited to) Chicago, Liberal/Progressive hypocrisy, lazy and entitled rioting black people, Benghazi, Liberal media bias, what's wrong with kids today, etc... It's not deflection but rather amusement. Hypocrisy does that for me. Did some of the CIA operatives involved in the program go a little too far with their interrogation tactics? Perhaps, but that doesn't mean the program was fruitless, it served it's purpose and I'd prefer they look to improve it rather than to indict those involved whose motives were well-intentioned. This country was paralyzed, people were afraid to vacation, travel etc. The air line industry almost went belly up. American's were angry at those who committed these atrocities and demanded our government do everything in it's power to make things right. These CIA operatives or for that matter this country wasn't prepared for 9/11. They were tasked to protect the country and to gather actionable intelligence to prevent further harm to the country and initially were ill-equipped to do so. They were essentially asked to stretch the limits of the law to do everything they could to achieve these honorable goals. They got down and dirty and did things that some people found to be morally objectionable, but they did it for everyone's safety. Now, many years removed, that fear has subsided and all the arm-chair hypocrites come out of the wood works to display their feigned outrage and claim the moral high ground with empty statements such as "We are better than that". Puhh leasse. Better than what? You telling me that it is wrong to waterboard terrorists who are guilty of causing mass atrocities in order to acquire actionable intelligence that could possibly save more lives? Is that what you are telling me? I'll gladly take the other side of your argument. Edited December 12, 2014 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Let's not get carried away. Here's an exercise you may want to undertake to see how much of a Fox News lemming you've become: 1. Name 3 traditionally liberal stances you support that conservatives traditionally oppose. 2. Name 3 actions or polices enacted by Obama that you think are reasonable, successful and/or generally good. In both cases, start with 1 if you're having trouble. Now I'M off-topic. Friggin ADD... This is the exercise? Where'd you come up with the number 3? Can I call you a liberal lemming if you don't support 3 conservative stances and 3 Bush policies? This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Let's not get carried away. Here's an exercise you may want to undertake to see how much of a Fox News lemming you've become: 1. Name 3 traditionally liberal stances you support that conservatives traditionally oppose. 2. Name 3 actions or polices enacted by Obama that you think are reasonable, successful and/or generally good. In both cases, start with 1 if you're having trouble. Now I'M off-topic. Friggin ADD... For #1, Protecting Rights and Freedoms Preventing the Spread and Use of Nuclear Weapons Maintaining the Strongest Military in the World For #2 Combating Antibiotic-Resistant Bacteria Prohibiting Human Trafficking by Government Contractors The declaration of the use of chemical weapons by Syria as a "red line." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I don't typically post in these forums, but I'm completely outraged at this report and the release of it. I honestly can't see the value in it. Progressives are systematically trying to destroy this country. They live in a fantasy world that only exists because of serious people who protect them and the ability to question the methods in which they provide freedom. It's sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I don't typically post in these forums, but I'm completely outraged at this report and the release of it. I honestly can't see the value in it. Progressives are systematically trying to destroy this country. They live in a fantasy world that only exists because of serious people who protect them and the ability to question the methods in which they provide freedom. It's sickening. What's the value in keeping something secret when everyone already knows it happened? Running from it, or worse continuing to tacitly condone it, is worse than being open about what happened, why it happened, and making sure it will never happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) What's the value in keeping something secret when everyone already knows it happened? Running from it, or worse continuing to tacitly condone it, is worse than being open about what happened, why it happened, and making sure it will never happen again. Why is what happened even wrong? If it was me, I'd use it as an example of the extent we will go to in order to protect this country. We kill terrorists via drones, we interrogate terrorists via some uncomfortable methods. It's war against a group of people with no protections via the Geneva convention and don't deserve any. Whatever works. The sooner we accept this the safer we will be. That's how serious people handle problems and the difference between real world solutions and coffee house/faculty lounge BS Edited December 12, 2014 by dubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Why is what happened even wrong? If it was me, I'd use it as an example of the extent we will go to in order to protect this country. By betraying everything that this country is supposed to stand for? That's not a measure of devotion, that's an act of betrayal. We kill terrorists via drones, we interrogate terrorists via some uncomfortable methods. If they were "uncomfortable" methods this wouldn't be a conversation. If you're going to take this stance at least be honest enough to use the proper verb. We tortured people for information -- none of which amounted to any serious intelligence breaks. It's war against a group of people with no protections via the Geneva convention and don't deserve any. Whatever works. The sooner we accept this the safer we will be. That's how serious people handle problems and the difference between real world solutions and coffee house/faculty lounge BS Respectfully disagree. That's the mentality that does nothing but continue the cycle of violence and fosters more hate towards the country. That's not a solution, it's not even a bandage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) By betraying everything that this country is supposed to stand for? That's not a measure of devotion, that's an act of betrayal. If they were "uncomfortable" methods this wouldn't be a conversation. If you're going to take this stance at least be honest enough to use the proper verb. We tortured people for information -- none of which amounted to any serious intelligence breaks. Respectfully disagree. That's the mentality that does nothing but continue the cycle of violence and fosters more hate towards the country. That's not a solution, it's not even a bandage. Respectfully disagree with this entire response. Nothing about what was done was torture. Terrorists are not covered by any legal statute or international treaty. The only currency is strength, not feelings. It's been that way for centuries and will always be that way. Undermining ourselves because some pathetic leaders want to take advantage of this ridiculous trend of being ashamed of our position in the world is a pathetic development in this country. Frankly, it's scary. I have yet to have anyone explain to me what was actually improper about what was done. Or how that it is/was worse than sending in drones to kill targets and occasionally also truly innocent people. Edited December 12, 2014 by dubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Respectfully disagree with this entire response. Nothing about what was done was torture. Terrorists are not covered by any legal statute or international treaty. The only currency is strength, not feelings. It's been that way for centuries and will always be that way. Undermining ourselves because some pathetic leaders want to take advantage of this ridiculous trend of being ashamed of our position in the world is a pathetic development in this country. Frankly, it's scary. I have yet to have anyone explain to me what was actually improper about what was done. Or how that it is/was worse than sending in drones to kill targets and occasionally also truly innocent people. Because not everyone we "questioned" turned out to be terrorists. And we live in a country where imprisoning, let alone torturing, even one innocent man is considered far worse than letting 100 guilty men walk free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubs Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) Because not everyone we "questioned" turned out to be terrorists. And we live in a country where imprisoning, let alone torturing, even one innocent man is considered far worse than letting 100 guilty men walk free. They were not tortured! They are not citizens of this country and not subject to law and rights under the constitution. They are cold blooded murderers and the tactics used directly led to us stopping future terrorist attacks and the killing of Bin Laden. Edited December 12, 2014 by dubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 They were not tortured! They are not citizens of this country and not subject to law and rights under the constitution. They are cold blooded murderers and the tactics used directly led to us stopping future terrorist attacks and the killing Bin Laden. Not everyone who was "not tortured" were cold blooded murderers or even associated with terrorism. Do you not understand this? There were innocents caught up in this who were tortured as outlined by the Geneva Conventions or any semblance of general human decency. As I said, we either are a country that stands by its ideals or we're not. And the program didn't lead us directly to OSB, despite what they depict in the movies. There's also no proof that the methods employed provided any actionable intel whatsoever -- if there were, someone would be out there shouting about the merits of torture. But they're not. Because there hasn't been any provided. We've already surrendered our right to privacy out of fear, now you're advocating surrendering our concept of due process to wrath. Don't think for a moment that just because this was done to "terrorists" it can't be done to the next boogey-man... or whoever the state deems a worthy target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Not everyone who was "not tortured" were cold blooded murderers or even associated with terrorism. Do you not understand this? There were innocents caught up in this who were tortured as outlined by the Geneva Conventions or any semblance of general human decency. As I said, we either are a country that stands by its ideals or we're not. And the program didn't lead us directly to OSB, despite what they depict in the movies. There's also no proof that the methods employed provided any actionable intel whatsoever -- if there were, someone would be out there shouting about the merits of torture. But they're not. Because there hasn't been any provided. We've already surrendered our right to privacy out of fear, now you're advocating surrendering our concept of due process to wrath. Don't think for a moment that just because this was done to "terrorists" it can't be done to the next boogey-man... or whoever the state deems a worthy target. It's a slippery slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's a slippery slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I see your gif and raise you one. Edited December 12, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts