Campy Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 The guard went low to take on Graham not try to tackle Gilmore. That should have been a penalty for a block below the knee on the guard but it was not called. Remember the penalty against Hasselbeck in the Superbowl. Graham shoved the guard afterwards. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Monkeyhead Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Really pissed me off that they refused to show any of the bad calls. I am so close to giving up on the sport all together due to the refs. This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 this thread is a fantastic read of incorrect rule interpretations and accusations about something none of us have seen yet. stellar work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 this thread is a fantastic read of incorrect rule interpretations and accusations about something none of us have seen yet. stellar work. Would you care to elaborate on some of these? I can say for one I never stated what I mentioned is fact, just what I was able to find. (not saying thats a shot at me but I'm just throwing it out there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Would you care to elaborate on some of these? I can say for one I never stated what I mentioned is fact, just what I was able to find. (not saying thats a shot at me but I'm just throwing it out there) i was definitely more impressed by some of the "there was no penalty" talk around the board as it was never shown so how would we know. think of it like a kick return. If a blocker at the 30 tackles a guy while the returner is still taking the ball out, you wouldnt see it marked from the 30, for instance. so im confident its not just a spot foul. im not sure the real verbiage on the rule there, but im pretty sure theres some additional qualifying verbiage to how its enforced beyond just a spot foul. if i had to take a stab at it -- cause honestly, ive never paid close attention/thought about it -- but i think in this case, holding is marked from where the runner was, maybe(?) -- i cant say the refs got it wrong, as i am not sure whats right (or what happened) Edited December 8, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Where was that? I didn't see that on any of the replays they showed And i know it was an interception, but KW got 30 yards downfield that quickly? Watching the replay, you can see KW locked up with a player, I wasn't able to tell the yardline or if in fact it was holding though. Check out the replay on the Bills site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If Gilmore would have hit Manning on the return, he would have gotten a penalty. The idea is to not force anything after getting an INT and a return like that, secure the ball and let your offense do the rest. That being said, our offense blows, so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 this thread is a fantastic read of incorrect rule interpretations and accusations about something none of us have seen yet. stellar work. i was definitely more impressed by some of the "there was no penalty" talk around the board as it was never shown so how would we know. think of it like a kick return. If a blocker at the 30 tackles a guy while the returner is still taking the ball out, you wouldnt see it marked from the 30, for instance. so im confident its not just a spot foul. im not sure the real verbiage on the rule there, but im pretty sure theres some additional qualifying verbiage to how its enforced beyond just a spot foul. if i had to take a stab at it -- cause honestly, ive never paid close attention/thought about it -- but i think in this case, holding is marked from where the runner was, maybe(?) -- i cant say the refs got it wrong, as i am not sure whats right (or what happened) Whats with the snarky tone there ? If you also did not know exactly what happened, why rag on the other posters for incorrect rule interpretations ? Perhaps a 'we don't have enough information to make accusations' is more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) Whats with the snarky tone there ? If you also did not know exactly what happened, why rag on the other posters for incorrect rule interpretations ? Perhaps a 'we don't have enough information to make accusations' is more appropriate. that was the initial, but i felt like id throw out some possibilities since he specifically asked. there have been A LOT of people that have both accused the refs of making up the call completely, as well as incorrectly enforcing it. my last part that we didnt see the play, and im not 100% on the rules wording wasnt meant to be as snarky as saying we should wait and see instead of breaking out the tar and feathers. i can say pretty certainly that its not a simple spot foul 100% of the time though. Edited December 8, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If Gilmore would have hit Manning on the return, he would have gotten a penalty. The idea is to not force anything after getting an INT and a return like that, secure the ball and let your offense do the rest. That being said, our offense blows, so.... I wish he made the safe assumption that a bogus call was going to be made somewhere on that play anyway, and just drilled manning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 that was the initial, but i felt like id throw out some possibilities since he specifically asked. there have been A LOT of people that have both accused the refs of making up the call completely, as well as incorrectly enforcing it. my last part that we didnt see the play, and im not 100% on the rules wording wasnt meant to be as snarky as saying we should wait and see instead of breaking out the tar and feathers. i can say pretty certainly that its not a simple spot foul 100% of the time though. I know i mentioned the idea of the spot foul, but I'm pretty i mentioned it once the runner is beyond the LOS, that it becomes a spot foul because then you typically see officials throwing the flag as close to where the penalty occured as possible. But I could be wrong for sure, I'm no rules expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I know i mentioned the idea of the spot foul, but I'm pretty i mentioned it once the runner is beyond the LOS, that it becomes a spot foul because then you typically see officials throwing the flag as close to where the penalty occured as possible. But I could be wrong for sure, I'm no rules expert and i wasnt directing it full on towards you - im a fan of "i think this is the rule, isnt it?" conversations in these situations -- which you were doing. generally, it hasnt been the tone since the game ended. a lot of people seem to assume no replay means fabricated out of thin air. which is frustrating, because theres often a good explanation but people remember the pitchforks and forget 3 days later when we see the all 22, and have the full rule out and it makes some sense. its part of how fan bases get riled into the "the leagues out to get us" frenzy that they do. refs do blow calls, but a lot of times theres a reasonable explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkAF43 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 and i wasnt directing it full on towards you - im a fan of "i think this is the rule, isnt it?" conversations in these situations -- which you were doing. generally, it hasnt been the tone since the game ended. a lot of people seem to assume no replay means fabricated out of thin air. which is frustrating, because theres often a good explanation but people remember the pitchforks and forget 3 days later when we see the all 22, and have the full rule out and it makes some sense. its part of how fan bases get riled into the "the leagues out to get us" frenzy that they do. refs do blow calls, but a lot of times theres a reasonable explanation. I get where you're coming from, I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong, I just didn't see the replays that clarified some of these calls,but you're right, we will need to see the all 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumblefish Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If the ref's can't interpret the rules ,how can anyone else do it, opinions are like a holes everyone has one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I get where you're coming from, I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong, I just didn't see the replays that clarified some of these calls,but you're right, we will need to see the all 22. now that we are discussing it though, im curious about the formal rule on holding -- its always been a spot foul in my head, but its clearly not that simple when you think about different situations that could happen. seems like one of those penalties that we get used to hearing the announcers casually talk about instead of actually explaining. i notice on a lot of other calls the announcers oversimplified (or incorrect) explanations are often a big part of the fans outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 If the ref's can't interpret the rules ,how can anyone else do it, opinions are like a holes everyone has one Also the announcers never even commented on them like "yeah and there's Williams holding, that's blatant, he should know better". Dead silence after both. Youd think 40 yard pentalties that take a team out of FG range would get more explanation and attention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I was not watching the game, so I haven't seen the play, but I was listening to the Denver feed on the radio. They said Graham gave a Broncos player the business while he was on the ground at the conclusion of the play. Again, I haven't even seen the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I was 4 rows away it was a carp call. The offensive player hit graham low. Most calls were crap yesterday. I never blame ref but yestetday was about the worse I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Another question about the Gilmore pick and return: Did Gilmore really step out of bounds in order to avoid contact with . . . Peyton Manning? It sure looked that way to me. If you watch the replay, Manning was out of bounds when Gilmore reached him. Would have definitely been a penalty on Gilmore. Mario Williams had a chance to block Manning, but didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 i was definitely more impressed by some of the "there was no penalty" talk around the board as it was never shown so how would we know. think of it like a kick return. If a blocker at the 30 tackles a guy while the returner is still taking the ball out, you wouldnt see it marked from the 30, for instance. so im confident its not just a spot foul. im not sure the real verbiage on the rule there, but im pretty sure theres some additional qualifying verbiage to how its enforced beyond just a spot foul. if i had to take a stab at it -- cause honestly, ive never paid close attention/thought about it -- but i think in this case, holding is marked from where the runner was, maybe(?) -- i cant say the refs got it wrong, as i am not sure whats right (or what happened) Basically, as I understand it (and I could definitely be wrong), a "spot foul" depends on where the ball ends up compared with where the foul occurred. So on a return, for instance, if a spot foul happens ahead of where the ball ends up being downed, then the penalty yards are marked off from where the ball is downed. So for instance, if on a kickoff return the foul occurs at the 20 yard line, but the runner only makes it out to the 15, then the yards are walked off from the 15 (the farthest the ball advanced). On the flip side, if the ball is downed ahead of where the spot foul occurs, then the yards are marked off from where the penalty occurred. So for instance, if the foul occurs at the 20 yard line, but the returner makes it all the way out to the 30, then the yards are walked off from the 20 (where the foul occurred). That, I believe, is what a spot foul is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts