Offense almost unwatchable....

[The Big Cat]

I said the same thing, last week, in a different thread. They were supposed to be fast paced, they are not. What are they?

 

Making the most of what they got.

 

Seriously.

 

I think they're severely hamstrung by their talent. I think they're missing key pieces and simply can't work around it to do what they WANT to do.

[NoSaint]

 

 

5 wide on third and one.

 

those plays where we had no back on the field, and the qb in shotgun with it "and inches" did always bother me. atleast make the defense have to be honest -- which he was normally good at.

[vorpma]

We won...yay! Did I miss something?

And in January the Bills will be watching the playoffs on TV...Yay! Since 1999.... yay!

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

There is almost no way with this offense and the way they approach games that the Bills can compete against NE,Denver & GB. I watch the play calling, the offensive sets and decision making and it has been awful. They are not that bad imo, but they have to come out and be more aggressive and innovative.

 

Wen was the last time you saw a catch and run over the middle to a wide receiver. They caught Cleveland yesterday on the Gray third down pass and Fred Jackson barely got 1 yard on their other third down make.

 

Yep great to have a winning record in December (how sad expectations are), but the games are not fun to watch when you are hoping the defense gets the ball back.

They're still holding back the good stuff like they were in preseason.

 

And in January the Bills will be watching the playoffs on TV...Yay! Since 1999.... yay!

Love the optimism.

[Billsfan1972]

My point was that everything is a frickin' disaster at TBD. We're the worst, we suck, unwatchable, yadda yadda. All with a team at 7-5. Have some perspective, why don'cha? While not great, our offense is not anywhere near some of the epic bad Bills teams. Maybe I'm debating 12 year olds, in which case you get a mulligan. But for someone with 1972 in their name I just figured would know better.

 

As a fan watching them is hard and frustrating. How long does this go on. From the first drive vs. KC to first drive vs. NYJ no TD's. I watch other teams, their sets, motion and receivers and see nothing that is innovative or would confuse other teams. Yesterday was the first time at least some penalties were called against the other team's DB's. We can go back and forth but to try and defend this offense is non-sensical.

[Cleveland Rocks?]

There are no AFC playoff contenders getting worse QB play than Cleveland and Cincy. Just wait for the implosion.

[Dopey]

I dunno...I really expected this offense to get better as the season progressed and it hasn't. Orton has missed a ton of throws over the past month. I'll concede you don't make a switch at QB when you've won two in a row, but if Orton gives us a clunker in Denver I would fully support bringing EJ back against Green Bay.

I hear you. I just think the offense as a whole runs smoother with Orton for now. And I trust Orton a lot more with using an audible at the line of scrimmage.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Dopey

[st pete gogolak]

First, I don't believe anyone is disputing the fact that Orton is an average starting NFL QB and that having Manning Brady or Rogers would make any OC look about 100 times better - BUT that doesn't give Hackett a free pass or mean that he has any business being employed as an NFL OC. He shouldn't be. Take yesterday's game. We did not run the ball on consecutive plays until mid-way through the third quarter! Granted, we didn't get much traction in the running game in the first half but in the second half it seemed we were moving the pile and picking up 3, 4 or 5 yards a pop. It was maddening to see Orton throw the ball constantly when faced with 2nd and 5 in the second half. My pet peeve for worst sequence. Third and three on Cleveland's 42. This should be four down territory. Run it and see if you pick up the first down. If not, still may be in position to go for it instead on fourth and short. Instead, Orton goes homerun ball to Goodwin with little chance for a completion. Boom goes the punt. Maybe that's on the HC but the formations and play calling all season have been laughably bad.

[Dopey]

as long as we are being honest here (I hope), what's with Hackett's deep pass calls on 3rd and 2 ?? very low % calls, but he dialed it up

I thought the issue most people on this board had with Hackett is predictability ? 3rd an 2 usually means a run. So he switched up to not be predictable. Damned if you do...you know the rest.

[The Big Cat]

First, I don't believe anyone is disputing the fact that Orton is an average starting NFL QB and that having Manning Brady or Rogers would make any OC look about 100 times better - BUT that doesn't give Hackett a free pass or mean that he has any business being employed as an NFL OC. He shouldn't be. Take yesterday's game. We did not run the ball on consecutive plays until mid-way through the third quarter! Granted, we didn't get much traction in the running game in the first half but in the second half it seemed we were moving the pile and picking up 3, 4 or 5 yards a pop. It was maddening to see Orton throw the ball constantly when faced with 2nd and 5 in the second half. My pet peeve for worst sequence. Third and three on Cleveland's 42. This should be four down territory. Run it and see if you pick up the first down. If not, still may be in position to go for it instead on fourth and short. Instead, Orton goes homerun ball to Goodwin with little chance for a completion. Boom goes the punt. Maybe that's on the HC but the formations and play calling all season have been laughably bad.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we've come full circle.

[Billsfan1972]

First, I don't believe anyone is disputing the fact that Orton is an average starting NFL QB and that having Manning Brady or Rogers would make any OC look about 100 times better - BUT that doesn't give Hackett a free pass or mean that he has any business being employed as an NFL OC. He shouldn't be. Take yesterday's game. We did not run the ball on consecutive plays until mid-way through the third quarter! Granted, we didn't get much traction in the running game in the first half but in the second half it seemed we were moving the pile and picking up 3, 4 or 5 yards a pop. It was maddening to see Orton throw the ball constantly when faced with 2nd and 5 in the second half. My pet peeve for worst sequence. Third and three on Cleveland's 42. This should be four down territory. Run it and see if you pick up the first down. If not, still may be in position to go for it instead on fourth and short. Instead, Orton goes homerun ball to Goodwin with little chance for a completion. Boom goes the punt. Maybe that's on the HC but the formations and play calling all season have been laughably bad.

 

That may have been the worst call of the game. Uncatchable and well defended with Watkins wide open over the middle.

 

Then there was the sequence at the end of the first half where faced with fourth & 2 and 25 seconds left they throw a 2 yarder to Watkins to set up a 53 vs. a 55 yard fg!!!!

Edited December 2, 2014 by Billsfan1972

[thewildrabbit]

I said the same thing, last week, in a different thread. They were supposed to be fast paced, they are not. What are they?

Bad, inept, and mostly lacking in creativity.

[Freddie's Dead]

A lot of times? Gee, I sure hope the tape doesn't show you're lying/exaggerating as I suspect you are.

 

OK BC, I went back and looked at the tape. I saw 4 running plays where the Bills motioned a WR into the formation, dragging an extra defender into the box. I saw 4 other running plays where the TE was motioned to the point of attack, a tendency that the Browns seemed to pick up on. A lot of times is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I've seen this tendency in prior weeks, so maybe I lumped them in. It still doesn't explain the play design. I don't think I've ever seen another NFL team motion a WR into the box on a running play, but I'll be on the lookout for it and let you know if I find it.

[Fan in San Diego]

I thought the issue most people on this board had with Hackett is predictability ? 3rd an 2 usually means a run. So he switched up to not be predictable. Damned if you do...you know the rest.

 

I was thinking the same thing reading this thread.

[NoSaint]

 

Then there was the sequence at the end of the first half where faced with fourth & 2 and 25 seconds left they throw a 2 yarder to Watkins to set up a 53 vs. a 55 yard fg!!!!

 

atleast they waited several seconds to call the timeout and nearly left us in an awkward no mans land on the clock. youd think they wouldve had the decision pretty instantly at the end of the 3rd down play, if properly planning ahead. and the chandler route to start that drive burning 30 seconds. youd think our OC would make it clear that whatever you do there, you dont hit chandler between the hashes at the line of scrimmage.

 

maybe im missing something philosophy wise, but it wasnt our finest work.

[GG]

OK BC, I went back and looked at the tape. I saw 4 running plays where the Bills motioned a WR into the formation, dragging an extra defender into the box. I saw 4 other running plays where the TE was motioned to the point of attack, a tendency that the Browns seemed to pick up on. A lot of times is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I've seen this tendency in prior weeks, so maybe I lumped them in. It still doesn't explain the play design. I don't think I've ever seen another NFL team motion a WR into the box on a running play, but I'll be on the lookout for it and let you know if I find it.

 

And IIRC, those occurred on plays where they needed a short pickup.

[Boatdrinks]

 

I thought the issue most people on this board had with Hackett is predictability ? 3rd an 2 usually means a run. So he switched up to not be predictable. Damned if you do...you know the rest.

 

I believe when people say " predictable" they mean lacking imagination, innovation , or scheme. While you may be correct about trying to break tendencies with the 3rd and two play, it just isn't smart to throw a low percentage pass on that down and distance. This just exemplifies NH 's lack of feel for the game. Most teams might take a deep shot on say , 2 nd down and short. He just doesn't seem to have the knack of calling plays for the defense the opponent is likely to be in. Many offenses in the league are predictable, yet highly successful . It's a term that gets thrown around a lot, but is something of a misnomer. Most teams will throw on third and five, so they are predictable. But great OC' s scheme guys open by design and creating mismatches. They will then use their predictability against the defense by running a different play off the same look ( a la Broncos). Hackett really gives you none of this.

[FireChan]

 

 

I believe when people say " predictable" they mean lacking imagination, innovation , or scheme. While you may be correct about trying to break tendencies with the 3rd and two play, it just isn't smart to throw a low percentage pass on that down and distance. This just exemplifies NH 's lack of feel for the game. Most teams might take a deep shot on say , 2 nd down and short. He just doesn't seem to have the knack of calling plays for the defense the opponent is likely to be in. Many offenses in the league are predictable, yet highly successful . It's a term that gets thrown around a lot, but is something of a misnomer. Most teams will throw on third and five, so they are predictable. But great OC' s scheme guys open by design and creating mismatches. They will then use their predictability against the defense by running a different play off the same look ( a la Broncos). Hackett really gives you none of this.

 

What's more unpredictable than low percentage passes? It's like shooting threes from half court, nobody expects it.

 

Hackett is ahead of his time.

Edited December 2, 2014 by FireChan

[Billsfan1972]

atleast they waited several seconds to call the timeout and nearly left us in an awkward no mans land on the clock. youd think they wouldve had the decision pretty instantly at the end of the 3rd down play, if properly planning ahead. and the chandler route to start that drive burning 30 seconds. youd think our OC would make it clear that whatever you do there, you dont hit chandler between the hashes at the line of scrimmage.

 

maybe im missing something philosophy wise, but it wasnt our finest work.

 

Ball @ midfield with a timeout and over one minute on the clock and we ran 4 plays and picked up 10 yards...... No idea what they were doing......

[Formerly Allan in MD]

You can't win consistently without a good quarterback. When's the last time we won consistently and which teams in the league that are near the top don't have a good quarterback? A team like Indy is top tier even though they don't have a great offensive line. That's probably your current model, and it's not because they're Luck ey.