Gugny Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It was interesting to listen last week to so many critics, including the two afternoon clowns at WGR, concluding what a terrible mistake Whaley made in trading up for Watkins. The nitwits had two main points, both of which were, unsurprisingly, completely wrong. First point was they moved up to acquire a weapon for EJ, and so now that EJ is benched the move was a major mistake. As if EJ is the only QB who needs great receivers. Every QB in the NFL could use mega talented receivers. Certainly Orton did yesterday. And you don't think Stafford terribly missed not having Calvin Johnson healthy yesterday? Their second point is that Bills gave up 2015 number one draft pick, which they would need to draft a franchise QB in case EJ fails. But it's obvious that the Bills have a lot of talent, and even last year, with an oft injured rookie EJ at QB, they still managed to win 6 games. No matter how mediocre Bills QB is in 2014, it's extremely unlikely they would win less than 6. And that's gives you the 9th or 10th pick, and you are never getting a sure fire, franchise QB that late in the round. It just doesn't happen. Atlanta made a similiar move several years ago, trading way up to get Julio Jones. I NEVER hear criticism of that trade. Julio Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Julio Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watkins. Now, but their rookie years are almost identical (with Watkins playing with EJ for 4 games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thronethinker Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Well one thing is for sure, if we didn't have Sammy on this team we lose the Lions Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martifal Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Jesus Christ, would you give Orton a f---ing chance, he looked pretty good against one of the best defenses in the league, on the road, without playing since last year. Signed Rich Gannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Actually - have seen quite a few stories on how the trade for Jones has kept Atlanta from building a better team- robbed them of needed cap friendly talent...The only position you move up for is franchise QB...it's all that matters in this league. They gave up a lot more than we did though didn't they...and their team had a ton of holes at that time where we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 They gave up a lot more than we did though didn't they...and their team had a ton of holes at that time where we don't. yes they did and it is still a bone of contention in Cleveland. The only player they have left from all those picks is Phil Taylor. Sometimes you just need to take the superstar when he's right in front of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) It was interesting to listen last week to so many critics, including the two afternoon clowns at WGR, concluding what a terrible mistake Whaley made in trading up for Watkins. The nitwits had two main points, both of which were, unsurprisingly, completely wrong. First point was they moved up to acquire a weapon for EJ, and so now that EJ is benched the move was a major mistake. As if EJ is the only QB who needs great receivers. Every QB in the NFL could use mega talented receivers. Certainly Orton did yesterday. And you don't think Stafford terribly missed not having Calvin Johnson healthy yesterday? Their second point is that Bills gave up 2015 number one draft pick, which they would need to draft a franchise QB in case EJ fails. But it's obvious that the Bills have a lot of talent, and even last year, with an oft injured rookie EJ at QB, they still managed to win 6 games. No matter how mediocre Bills QB is in 2014, it's extremely unlikely they would win less than 6. And that's gives you the 9th or 10th pick, and you are never getting a sure fire, franchise QB that late in the round. It just doesn't happen. Atlanta made a similiar move several years ago, trading way up to get Julio Jones. I NEVER hear criticism of that trade. The Falcons had a better team than the Bills did when they traded for Jones and had guys like Roddy White and Matt Ryan (who was far more proven at the time than EJ was). That's why the criticism. I was part of the group that felt it too as I didn't see a need for a WR with SJ13, Mike Williams and a n emerging Robert Woods on the roster. I felt that staying pat and taking Ebron was a wiser decision. In retrospect I may have been wrong but it all depends on what Sammy develops into. He might be that #1 WR we've lacked since Eric Moulds left and if so then the trade doesn't look so bad. One "good" thing is that the guys the Browns took Justin Gilbert has struggled so if go player for player comparison it looks good for the Bills so far. Yet the Browns can still acquire two more players from us with our 1st and 4ths in their possession in 2015. Which brings up the discussion of hypotheticals like does Watkins > Ebron/Gilbert, Ty Montgomery (a WR prospect that grades as 1st Rounder) and Player X (our 4th Round pick). As part of the reason the reason the Falcons got praise is Jones > Phil Taylor as the Browns busted on Brandon Wheeden and Greg Little and also used the 4th Rounder they got from the Falcons to move up to acquire Trent Richardson who ultimately turned into Johnny Manziel. Edited October 9, 2014 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Which brings up the discussion of hypotheticals like does Watkins > Ebron, Ty Montgomery (a WR prospect that grades as 1st Rounder) and Player X (our 4th Round pick). That's the interesting part. Would you rather Ebron, Montgomery & Ross Cockerill or Watkins? For me it's a no brainer. 4 quarters doesn't equal a dollar. It is tough to find stars and Sammy will be that and everyone knew that. You have to pay to get them. If the Bills had the roster that they had when Buddy got here maybe you hesitate but not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Julio Jones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Watkins. Seriously doubt that will be the case for very long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) That's the interesting part. Would you rather Ebron, Montgomery & Ross Cockerill or Watkins? For me it's a no brainer. 4 quarters doesn't equal a dollar. It is tough to find stars and Sammy will be that and everyone knew that. You have to pay to get them. If the Bills had the roster that they had when Buddy got here maybe you hesitate but not now. I'm one that think a draft or drafts is about acquiring the most talent and I think in about 3 years time Ebron, Montgomery and Cockrell could be worth more than Watkins alone. As to me we lack a starting TE and I feel Ebron could develop into one, Montgomery has the skill set to be an above average NFL WR and Cockrell could develop into a replacement for an aging Leodis. So your four quarters is a valid one but not sure if Ebron and Montgomery are just quarters I think they could be 50 cent pieces or maybe more. Edited October 10, 2014 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO'14 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Ive said it since I watched a few Bowls last year. SAMMY WATKINS WAS THE MOST NFL READY IMO. He was playing a mans game in college amongst boys. ENJOY THE RIDE MOFOS.....( however I do believe he is dumb like Spiller...just glad he has better football insticts than Spiller! ) Im on fire this year. I called the Bears game and the Lions game. I called that Watkins is a stud...and my avatar name is PLAYOFFS 2014! Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it! I also called that EJ would get his Receivers killed after the Bears game and many of you laughed at me....FIRE!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Don't forget: Andy Dalton Colin Kaepernick Nick Foles Tony Romo Only thing- all of you are missing "sure fire" in his post. After the first couple picks it's a pretty big crapshoot... Heck, the first couple are tough too but he's talking luck/manning I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) I'm one that think a draft or drafts is about acquiring the most talent and I think in about 3 years time Ebron, Montgomery and Cockrell could be worth more than Watkins alone. As to me we lack a starting TE and I feel Ebron could develop into one, Montgomery has the skill set to be an above average NFL WR and Cockrell could develop into a replacement for an aging Leodis. So your four quarters is a valid one but not sure if Ebron and Montgomery are just quarters I think they could be 50 cent pieces or maybe more. That's being generous for all 3, potentially. Let's say a middle of the pack TE (choose any not named gronk, graham, gates or Davis essentially) an above average wr (Stevie/decker/whoever) and a run of the mill dime corner/special teamer - or aj green? you don't get to sign a guy like green, jones, Fitzgerald or megatron--- you can get multiple guys of the other quality every offseason... Edited October 10, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) That's being generous for all 3, potentially. Let's say a middle of the pack TE (choose any not named gronk, graham, gates or Davis essentially) an above average wr (Stevie/decker/whoever) and a run of the mill dime corner/special teamer - or aj green? you don't get to sign a guy like green, jones, Fitzgerald or megatron--- you can get multiple guys of the other quality every offseason... I don't see Watkins as an Green/Jones/Fitzgerald/Megatron. I see him as a better version of Percy Harvin/Torrey Smith type but with better hands. It's hard because hands wise he is elite but he doesn't have elite size so there's no real NFL comparison. Edited October 10, 2014 by The Jokeman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I don't see Watkins as an Green/Jones/Fitzgerald/Megatron. I see him as a better version of Percy Harvin/Torrey Smith type but with better hands. It's hard because hands wise he is elite but he doesn't have elite size so there's no real NFL comparison. Fitzgerald 6'3 218 lbs Julio 6'3 220 Sammy 6'1 211 While he's undersized it's not like all those guys are 6'6' freaks of nature like megatron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 yes they did and it is still a bone of contention in Cleveland. The only player they have left from all those picks is Phil Taylor. Sometimes you just need to take the superstar when he's right in front of you. If thats what they thought then Gosh bless em'Heck they might have been very right. Only time tells the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Fitzgerald 6'3 218 lbs Julio 6'3 220 Sammy 6'1 211 While he's undersized it's not like all those guys are 6'6' freaks of nature like megatron. Julio might be a fair comparison because he has the speed but to me 6'3" is a bigger mismatch to 5'10" and 5'11" CBs then Sammy's 6'1". Yet I also go back to this article: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/15/sammy-watkins-clemson-nfl-draft/ When you picture the most physically gifted and dominating receivers in today’s NFL, the list goes something like this: Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, Andre Johnson, Dez Bryant, Brandon Marshall, Larry Fitzgerald, Julio Jones, Josh Gordon and Demaryius Thomas. They are the best of the best, true nightmare matchups, players for whom defensive coordinators must tailor their game plans.What do they have in common? They are all extremely strong on the ball in contested scenarios, and each is a perfect blend of size, speed and overall athletic ability. And did I mention size? All of the aforementioned but Bryant and Andre Johnson measured 6-foot-3 or taller at their respective combines. And those two—who aren’t exactly smurfs at a combine-measured 6-foot-2—have vertical jumps of at least 38 inches (not to mention 34-inch arms) that allow them to play even bigger. Watkins is being talked about as a sure-fire top-10 pick in next month’s draft, perhaps even a top-five pick, which means people are expecting him to have the same impact as today’s top receivers. Yet he stands a mere six-feet and three-quarters of an inch, with 32-inch arms, and has a pedestrian 34-inch vertical. Which means Watkins will have to break the mold in order to live up to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 What all those guys have in common: either they are bipolar or you have to draft them to get them. 6'3 is clearly a bigger mismatch but if Sammy has better hands and can be as physical if not more... And... How many balls do you think Andre Johnson missed by being 6'2 instead of 6'3? Top receivers are hard to come by unless they have big baggage... Good tight ends, average wrs and secondary depth is easy to find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Julio might be a fair comparison because he has the speed but to me 6'3" is a bigger mismatch to 5'10" and 5'11" CBs then Sammy's 6'1". Yet I also go back to this article: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/15/sammy-watkins-clemson-nfl-draft/ [/background][/size][/font][/color] No need to go back to that article. If it were written today they would say "he is on pace for 77 catches over 900 yards and 8 TDs while playing a quarter of the season with the worst QBing in the league. He doesn't play like a small receiver. He plays with the body control, hands and high point ability of Fitzgerald and the explosiveness of Julio Jones. Watkins is directly responsible for at least 2 of Buffalo's wins." I realize people want to "wait and see" but he is exactly what everyone in the scouting community thought he was -a star. He isn't going to be Eric Decker. He is better than those guys today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 What all those guys have in common: either they are bipolar or you have to draft them to get them. 6'3 is clearly a bigger mismatch but if Sammy has better hands and can be as physical if not more... And... How many balls do you think Andre Johnson missed by being 6'2 instead of 6'3? Top receivers are hard to come by unless they have big baggage... Good tight ends, average wrs and secondary depth is easy to find Not for the Buffalo Bills. If so we might not be having this debate to begin with. As for every Watkins there we are littered with Grahams, Goodwins, Hardys, Parishs etc. As again I'm just looking for the team to acquire the best group of talent. Yet again Watkins has proven better than I thought he'd be up to this point so he might be the next great one. Yet I guess I rank Ebron a little better than you as I could see him being another JerMichael Finley to me not just another run of the mill TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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