Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Trust me it was horrible. I guess that depends on your point of view. I thought it was pretty great actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Trust me it was horrible, both Vick and Geno sucked out loud. I enjoyed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I guess that depends on your point of view. I thought it was pretty great actually. Well I got a chubb seeing Brendan Oliver score me 30+ points in fantasy. I played a hunch picking him up and starting him. He won it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Well I got a chubb seeing Brendan Oliver score me 30+ points in fantasy. I played a hunch picking him up and starting him. He won it for me. I picked him up before the game. Didn't play him, but pretty pleased anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 It's 2 years in. Plenty of QBs were considered busts after 2 years. Way too early to say definitely yet. But the Jets' situation looks really bad. I wasn't a fan of the EJ benching but I'll take Orton all day over Vick. What's making the Jest situation look bad is Ryan's insistence on passing the buck by suggesting last week that he needed GM approval to sit Geno. That is the definition of a dysfunctional situation. Way too early to close the book on EJ's or Geno's career. It's a process that today's less informed media and fans have less of an understanding of. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Watch Orton blossom here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Off the top of my head, Steve Young, Aikman, Rodgers (didn't play his first 3 years!), Warren Moon, Matt Stafford, etc. Please look at Orton's first 2 years. We have no patience anymore. That's been my whole point with EJ. We used to allow Qbs to develop and make mistakes. Now everything is overreacting after every game. Quarterback is the hardest position to learn in sports. Rodgers was never considered a bust. Stafford is not a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Name 3 that turned out good. I sure as hell can't. Only can think of Alex Smith. Drew Brees wasn't all that good until about 5 yrs in. Now he may end up being considered as being one of the 10 best ever at the position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I cant think of a qb who was below average to bad his first 2 seasons in nfl and then went on to be great. At least not in last 20 yrs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Rodgers was never considered a bust. Stafford is not a bust. Rodgers didn't play for 3 years so we have no idea. In today's NFL, you aren't allow to sit that long. Maybe EJ or Geno would have benefited from sitting behind a veteran. And Stafford struggled with injuries, completed 53% of his passes as rookie with 13 tds and 20 ints. hindsight is always 20-20. I cant think of a qb who was below average to bad his first 2 seasons in nfl and then went on to be great. At least not in last 20 yrs.. Well then, you don't know much about the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Drew Brees wasn't all that good until about 5 yrs in. Now he may end up being considered as being one of the 10 best ever at the position Drew Brees threw for 17TD in his first full season and 27TD's in his 3rd full season. he did have a sophomore slump. So yeah, maybe Brees took a little longer to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Rodgers didn't play for 3 years so we have no idea. In today's NFL, you aren't allow to sit that long. Maybe EJ or Geno would have benefited from sitting behind a veteran. And Stafford struggled with injuries, completed 53% of his passes as rookie with 13 tds and 20 ints. hindsight is always 20-20. Nothing you wrote is inaccurate, but it also must be noted that the rules have gotten much easier for passing the football within the last few years. Brees Rodgers and even Stafford had it tougher than the more recent guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Rodgers didn't play for 3 years so we have no idea. In today's NFL, you aren't allow to sit that long. Maybe EJ or Geno would have benefited from sitting behind a veteran. And Stafford struggled with injuries, completed 53% of his passes as rookie with 13 tds and 20 ints. hindsight is always 20-20. Well then, you don't know much about the NFL. ? Maybe we need to make a distinction between QB's who sat on the bench b/c they had a HOF QB in front of them and those QB's who started from day 1 (like EJ) before you throw around insults. You specifically replied to QB's being considered busts after 2 years and you provided Rodgers as an example along with Stafford as an example. That's false and there's no arguing it. Stafford threw 41 TD's in his second full season. That's a bust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Nothing you wrote is inaccurate, but it also must be noted that the rules have gotten much easier for passing the football within the last few years. Brees Rodgers and even Stafford had it tougher than the more recent guys. Agreed on the rule changes but that just means we can't really evaluate these guys yet because it's so recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Agreed on the rule changes but that just means we can't really evaluate these guys yet because it's so recent. Good point. None of this is easy to sort out, and it's absolutely imperative that teams get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 ? Maybe we need to make a distinction between QB's who sat on the bench b/c they had a HOF QB in front of them and those QB's who started from day 1 (like EJ) before you throw around insults. You specifically replied to QB's being considered busts after 2 years and you provided Rodgers as an example along with Stafford as an example. That's false and there's no arguing it. Stafford threw 41 TD's in his second full season. That's a bust? Stafford did that in his 3rd year. Every training camp helps a quarterback. He has more time to develop chemistry with wrs and understand an offense. Most QBs will fail. But I don't think our society of instant gratification is helping either. Good point. None of this is easy to sort out, and it's absolutely imperative that teams get it right. EJ may have been very well the type who need a veteran to learn from. Fitz would have been amazing for that role. But look at Orton. He was horrible at the start of his career and now is servicable. The guys who are successes right away are a lot more rarer than the guys that struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Stafford did that in his 3rd year. Every training camp helps a quarterback. He has more time to develop chemistry with wrs and understand an offense. Most QBs will fail. But I don't think our society of instant gratification is helping either. EJ may have been very well the type who need a veteran to learn from. Fitz would have been amazing for that role. But look at Orton. He was horrible at the start of his career and now is servicable. The guys who are successes right away are a lot more rarer than the guys that struggle. I don't disagree with that at all. But that's how the chips fell for him, hopefully he's mentally strong enough to get through the benching. I'm not of the belief that EJ is done in the NFL and he may still bounce back. The problem is if he's not mentally strong enough to recover from the lackluster start to his career. EJ hasn't even started a full season yet. Geno on the other hand already has more starts under his belt and it looks like he will continue to start. He's already at 21 games started compared to EJ's 14. All i'm saying is that if Geno continues to start this season at the expense of the rest of the team and he continues to perform as badly as he has that's 2 years of games you have as a sample and the odds are definitely against him turning it around significantly (as can be seen by the lack of recent examples of QB's who have started 2 seasons, were bad, and then ultimately turned it around). Stafford went into his 3rd season with only 13 games started due to injury but had shown flashes as he had 19TD's through 13 games. Though he did have a lot of INT's remember he inherited an 0-16 team when he was drafted. My point is that he had flashes of greatness his rookie season throwing 5td's in one game. His injuries were a bit of a concern but so was that horrible O-line but I don't remember reading any articles at the time saying he was a bust. Geno (and EJ) have not had any flashes of greatness yet - they've been "OK" some games - but neither one of them have had that wow factor yet that leads people to think that there may be something great there. More concerning for both (especially Geno) is their regressions in their second year. Edited October 6, 2014 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 The Jets have crappy WRs, a fair OL, below average TE, and one good RB in Ivory (CJ is washed up). Geno is not the kind of player to lead a team like that. Plus he is just like Sanchez before him. He can look good for short periods of play, even entire games, but is so reckless with the ball he is terribly inconsistent and not someone anyone wants as a starter. I still would much prefer EJ and EJ isn't any good right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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