The Dougs' Accountability Thread

[3putt]

19k posts. Are all 19k pure tool like this one? Poor choice of hobby.

[BillsVet]

Simply put, the Buffalo Bills have mismanaged the single most important position in all or Pro sports, once again.

 

Post-Donahoe, this is the common denominator. Whether via the draft, free agency, or trades, it's been miss after miss.

 

And it's not simply choosing the wrong QB, it's how they planned for the position. This latest example of trying to go with the likes of Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel as opposed to a veteran is another theme. It's obvious the Bills are deathly afraid of having a QB controversy and prefer to go with unheralded types to avoid the situation.

 

Inevitably someone will ask here what they should have done and predictably respond with a "hindsight is 20/20" response. But the fact remains they're back in an unenviable position trying to win games with a guy who's not ready to play.

[GG]

19k posts. Are all 19k pure tool like this one? Poor choice of hobby.

 

My other hobby is ranking TSW posters on the chart in your avatar.

[3rdand12]

I'd hardly call 2-1 and first place in the division a "perdicament"

oh its a perdicamenent alright.

Bills lost by being schooled. SD is a serious contender.

how do they respond ?

Thats the Coaching.

Whaley ? too soon really

[Augie]

19k posts. Are all 19k pure tool like this one? Poor choice of hobby.

I didn't even read his post. I just had to immediately wonder: why do you care and who made you the judge here? So he likes to post... Is there something wrong with that? If you disagree with his comments or position, why not discuss it intelligently?

 

It turns out I don't agree with him either, but I'm not going to go about it in the wrong way. In fact, I'm not even going to bother right now beyond saying they had a plan and they'll be judged by it in time. They do in fact have a pretty good backup for this year. You can fault them for how they got there, or credit them for getting there. But they will be judged on whether EJ succeeds.

[Dawgg]

1. Their Guards suck.

 

... and who made the personnel decision to sign G Chris Williams to a lucrative deal despite his ranking LAST among starting guards by Pro Football Focus?

 

Oh yeah, Doug Whaley

[Augie]

 

 

... and who made the personnel decision to sign G Chris Williams to a lucrative deal despite his ranking LAST among starting guards by Pro Football Focus?

 

Oh yeah, Doug Whaley

 

I will freely admit to being a Whaley supporter, but that one has me stumped. Really stumped. No one gets them all right I suppose. I think we have a lot of talent on this team (more than I can remember for a long time) and I give him a lot of the credit for that.

[Seasons1992]

People!

 

We are so much closer than we've been since 1999 to a quality team!

 

It's two or three plays a game at this point.

 

Let's finish this season with a second year QB and an owner that hasn't even been technically approved yet. Then, lose your minds.

[hondo in seattle]

Can't hide behind Nix, because Nix needed advice of his pro personnel director on who would replace Fitz if they were to cut him. That was Whaley. Don't forget the Bills signed Jackson in the spring and then decided he wasn't worthy of a training camp invite. This is the same scouting team that reportedly made a strong run at Freeman. This is the administration that thought it was a good plan to draft a raw QB to be coached by a very green OC with zero QB coaching help.

 

So yeah, I can still step away from the canvas and puke up a Jackson Pollock worthy masterpiece.

 

Nix was his own man and made his own decisions. And Whaley isn't simply carrying on Nix's plan and vision. As soon as Whaley took over, he shook the personnel department up. He hired an outsider - Jim Monos - to be the Director of Player Personnel. He brought in another outsider - Kelvin Fisher - to run college scouting. He also, I believe, replaced one of the regional scouts. It should be clear Whaley isn't just a Nix clone. So I'm not judging Whaley on Nix's tenure - only his own. And that tenure has only lasted 1.3 years so far. There's not a lot of evidence on which to base an opinion.

 

... and who made the personnel decision to sign G Chris Williams to a lucrative deal despite his ranking LAST among starting guards by Pro Football Focus?

 

Oh yeah, Doug Whaley

 

Yeah, that was questionable!

[Augie]

 

Let's finish this season with a second year QB and an owner that hasn't even been technically approved yet. Then, lose your minds.

 

I am fully capable of all of that!

:-)

[GG]

Nix was his own man and made his own decisions. And Whaley isn't simply carrying on Nix's plan and vision. As soon as Whaley took over, he shook the personnel department up. He hired an outsider - Jim Monos - to be the Director of Player Personnel. He brought in another outsider - Kelvin Fisher - to run college scouting. He also, I believe, replaced one of the regional scouts. It should be clear Whaley isn't just a Nix clone. So I'm not judging Whaley on Nix's tenure - only his own. And that tenure has only lasted 1.3 years so far. There's not a lot of evidence on which to base an opinion.

 

If you think that after January 2013 Nix made decisions on his own without heavy input from Whaley & Brandon, then you're clueless. And as discussed above, in that 1.3 years, there have been a lot of boneheaded moves at the QB position by the front office & coaching staff.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

... and who made the personnel decision to sign G Chris Williams to a lucrative deal despite his ranking LAST among starting guards by Pro Football Focus?

 

Oh yeah, Doug Whaley

nfl personnel depts don't use PFF to determine who they sign. Regardless, unimpressed with CW this far.

[Augie]

nfl personnel depts don't use PFF to determine who they sign. Regardless, unimpressed with CW this far.

He's apparently had the back issue for a while. That may be a part of his struggles, or it may just be a lack of talent and a be poor decision. If guards are a dime a dozen (as some say), why can't we get a nickels worth?

[Coach Tuesday]

This thread is depressing... accurate but sad.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Post-Donahoe, this is the common denominator. Whether via the draft, free agency, or trades, it's been miss after miss.

 

And it's not simply choosing the wrong QB, it's how they planned for the position. This latest example of trying to go with the likes of Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel as opposed to a veteran is another theme. It's obvious the Bills are deathly afraid of having a QB controversy and prefer to go with unheralded types to avoid the situation.

 

Inevitably someone will ask here what they should have done and predictably respond with a "hindsight is 20/20" response. But the fact remains they're back in an unenviable position trying to win games with a guy who's not ready to play.

 

I would say it started with Donahoe, choosing Johnson over Flutie, reaching for JP while kicking Bledsoe to the curb. But I could be wrong.

[reddogblitz]

I would say it started with Donahoe, choosing Johnson over Flutie, reaching for JP while kicking Bledsoe to the curb. But I could be wrong.

 

I don't think you're wrong.

[hondo in seattle]

If you think that after January 2013 Nix made decisions on his own without heavy input from Whaley & Brandon, then you're clueless. And as discussed above, in that 1.3 years, there have been a lot of boneheaded moves at the QB position by the front office & coaching staff.

 

Obviously, every GM takes input. Obviously not all of Whaley's input was acted upon. If Whaley loved all of Nix's decisions, why was he so quick to change to folks at the top of the personnel department?

 

Do you have inside information so that you can tell us when Whaley agreed with Nix and when he dissented? I'm personally not privy to that stuff so I give Whaley a pass on Nix's tenure.

 

And, yep, cutting TJax and signing Williams were mistakes. Then again, trading Shep for Jerry Hughes and drafting Alonso were both very good moves. So far, early in his career, Whaley's had some hits and misses - I'm sure we both could enumerate more of each. But, all-in-all, I think the roster is getting better and I'd like to see what Whaley will do with more time.

 

BTW, calling me "clueless" doesn't add to your argument. In fact, resorting to ad hominem attacks is usually a tactic employed by people either short on facts or short on logic.

 

There's an old saying, "When a pickpocket walks down the street, all he sees is pockets." Likewise, when a football critic observes a team, all he sees are things to criticize.

 

Since Whaley has made both good and bad decisions, like most rookie GMs, I'd like to see what he does with more time. I don't think changing the FO and coaching staff every couple years makes Buffalo a desirable destination.

[Ripkord65]

I think Pegula learned from his mistake with Darcy, and not clearing house immediately with the Sabres. I believe he's going to clear house asap. The two Dougs have proven to be all but worthless and EJ is not, nor will he ever be a franchise QB.

[26CornerBlitz]

I think Pegula learned from his mistake with Darcy, and not clearing house immediately with the Sabres. I believe he's going to clear house asap. The two Dougs have proven to be all but worthless and EJ is not, nor will he ever be a franchise QB.

 

You're going to find out in eleven days just how ridiculous of a statement this really is.

[finn]

... and in that brief span, they decided that Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tarvaris Jackson and Matt Flynn weren't worthy of taking even a single preseason snap, while Thad Lewis and Jeff Tuel were good enough to start a regular season game.

 

This is more or less the observation I was going to make. The two have made built a pretty good young roster, but they put all their chips on EJ and rushed him into the lineup....all while having had two--count 'em--veteran qbs on the roster, paid for and ready to go, in Jackson and Fitzpatrick. In my view, they (and Nix) have gotten nowhere near the heat they deserve for first signing Fitz to that huge contract then letting him go one year in, meaning that they have to pay him without getting his services in return. They messed up signing him, but why did they then cut him, doubling the mistake? I don't buy the "he'd be a distraction" argument, because a much more plausible explanation is right at hand: they made a mistake and wanted it to go away fast. And it worked. How often do you see this crew flamed for their appalling double mistake--I mean giving Fitz a huge contract then cutting him, burdening the franchise with enough dead money to have signed Byrd and more? Neither qb is the long-term answer obviously, but having one or both would have allowed EJ to learn from the bench--or, far, far (far) better, bought them time to bring in one or more qbs with more potential than EJ.

 

The qb position is just too important to put all your chips on one player. We've seen it a sickening number of times here, and we all know the litany. Yet this is just what these two have done. So no Fitz starting while the coaches have time to develop and evaluate one or two young prospect. No long-term plan to stockpile picks in order to move up in the next year's draft to nab a player with more potential. Whaley is praised constantly on this board for the moves he's made. But it seems to me these moves are all about his own career and making himself look good. Usually that self-interest coincides with the franchise's, but cutting Fitz, drafting a questionable "franchise" qb now versus a more sure thing later--and (doubling down) giving up two first-round picks for a wide receiver (hey, if it means the playoffs, great, if not, Whaley figures he'd be out of here anyway)... those are not the moves of a GM thinking long term and putting the franchise first. He's a talented guy, and it might be best for Pegula to sign him to a long-term contract so he can put the Bills first instead of himself.